Excess LH May Be What Causes Small, Hard Testes Seen In XXY Males

[AretnaP]

[Importance of Klinefelter syndrome in the pathogenesis of male infertility]. - PubMed - NCBI

Also important to mention, the reason for the tall height of klinefelters men is usually "they have low testosterone, thus low estrogen from conversion".

This seems to not be true, all these studies say XXY have high estrogen, peaty implications?
Pituitary-gonadal function in Klinefelter syndrome before and during puberty. - PubMed - NCBI
Hormonal studies in Klinefelter's syndrome. - PubMed - NCBI
Klinefelter Syndrome Workup: Laboratory Studies, Imaging Studies, Histologic Findings
Klinefelter’s syndrome: a study of its hormonal plasma pattern

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Lot of tall virile looking young men walking around...I thought testosterone had gone down and estrogen had gone up? Or is this that "estrogen is actually androgenic" argument again

 

[AretnaP]

Lot of tall virile looking young men walking around...I thought testosterone had gone down and estrogen had gone up? Or is this that "estrogen is actually androgenic" argument again

I don't know, but the point of this post was to point out that:
A. LH seems to cause fibrosis in the testicles.
B. Overgrowth of people with klinefelters is not due to low estrogen.

 

[AretnaP]

Before this thread gets tossed into the abyss I will attempt to summon @haidut and ask him some questions.

1. Do you think excess LH can lead to infertility (as seen in the fibrotising of the testes of klinefelter men)?

2. Do you think that excess estrogen can lead to overgrowth? The common reason for the increased height in XXY males if usually low T = low conversion to estradiol, therefore long limbs. Every source I found actually measuring the hormonal levels of these men found higher E2, do you think the edema caused by estrogen could be what makes these men grow taller?

I think people with these severe conditions make interesting cases.

 

[haidut]

Before this thread gets tossed into the abyss I will attempt to summon @haidut and ask him some questions.

1. Do you think excess LH can lead to infertility (as seen in the fibrotising of the testes of klinefelter men)?

2. Do you think that excess estrogen can lead to overgrowth? The common reason for the increased height in XXY males if usually low T = low conversion to estradiol, therefore long limbs. Every source I found actually measuring the hormonal levels of these men found higher E2, do you think the edema caused by estrogen could be what makes these men grow taller?

I think people with these severe conditions make interesting cases.

Yes, to #1 and in fact high LH/FSH are well known to cause enlarged (but "fluffy") gonads in some males initially and then atrophy down the road. Infertility has many causes, and high pituitary hormones are a common one in males. Btw, high LH/FSH may also increase prolactin, which is well known to cause infertility in males.
Yes to #2 as well, if estrogen leads to release of GH. Estrogen is well known to cause pituitary hypertrophy and increase release of prolactin, but often it also causes increase in GH release as well. Males with gyno often have high prolactin, high estrogen AND high levels of GH. I posted a study somewhere on the forum showing all 3 hormones are implicated in gyno and they usually go hand in hand. So, if the high estrogen elevates GH enough this could lead to increased height with long, thin limbs.

 

[Mr. God of Cars]

Yes, to #1 and in fact high LH/FSH are well known to cause enlarged (but "fluffy") gonads in some males initially and then atrophy down the road. Infertility has many causes, and high pituitary hormones are a common one in males. Btw, high LH/FSH may also increase prolactin, which is well known to cause infertility in males.
Yes to #2 as well, if estrogen leads to release of GH. Estrogen is well known to cause pituitary hypertrophy and increase release of prolactin, but often it also causes increase in GH release as well. Males with gyno often have high prolactin, high estrogen AND high levels of GH. I posted a study somewhere on the forum showing all 3 hormones are implicated in gyno and they usually go hand in hand. So, if the high estrogen elevates GH enough this could lead to increased height with long, thin limbs.

Then, for people wanting to be taller, they should restrict carbohydrate and saturated fats, and consume tryptophan and other antimetabolic amino acids, that is, do the opposite of Ray Peat's idea, mainly growing people, including children. So, either Ray Peat is wrong about his ideas when it comes to children, or height can also be induced by insulin, a hormone Ray Peat views as anabolic for home and stimulated by some aminoacids, and, therefore, a hormone that explains why he recommended high protein diet for fighting osteoporosis.

 

[haidut]

Then, for people wanting to be taller, they should restrict carbohydrate and saturated fats, and consume tryptophan and other antimetabolic amino acids, that is, do the opposite of Ray Peat's idea, mainly growing people, including children. So, either Ray Peat is wrong about his ideas when it comes to children, or height can also be induced by insulin, a hormone Ray Peat views as anabolic for home and stimulated by some aminoacids, and, therefore, a hormone that explains why he recommended high protein diet for fighting osteoporosis.

There are many things that can cause a person to grow tall. Insulin is one such hormone as you mentioned. Adequate protein is another (as I posted in a separate thread about men from Montenegro). Why do you assume height is always a good thing? Both excess height and shortness are signs of disease.

 

[Mr. God of Cars]

There are many things that can cause a person to grow tall. Insulin is one such hormone as you mentioned. Adequate protein is another (as I posted in a separate thread about men from Montenegro). Why do you assume height is always a good thing? Both excess height and shortness are signs of disease.

Being tall has many benefits or almost all of the benefits that a human can get. Girls want men taller than them. I personally find girls taller than me sexier because they are more symmetrical - if I was taller than all or most women, my dating pool would be greater, that is, my reproductive success would be better. There are studies indicating tall humans are more likely to gain more money for a specific job than shorter ones, and that they dominate over social interactions and are respected more. Obviously, there are negative consequences of being tall, such as hitting your head on the ceiling fan or on top of doors, but these are few.

 

[haidut]

Being tall has many benefits or almost all of the benefits that a human can get. Girls want men taller than them. I personally find girls taller than me sexier because they are more symmetrical - if I was taller than all or most women, my dating pool would be greater, that is, my reproductive success would be better. There are studies indicating tall humans are more likely to gain more money for a specific job than shorter ones, and that they dominate over social interactions and are respected more. Obviously, there are negative consequences of being tall, such as hitting your head on the ceiling fan or on top of doors, but these are few.

That's only true in some very specific Western countries. It really depends on how many other tall people around you there are and what the culture considers desirable. If you are one of the very few tall people in the area/country you can actually have a real problem getting a mate due to being perceived as a "freak". Males taller than 6 feet are considered weird in most East Asian countries and studies have been done on their poor reproductive success. Similar results have been found in several Latin American countries where the average male height is about 5'5'' and the optimal difference of height between a male and female was found to be about an inch in favor of the male. Anything more than 3 inch higher or lower than the female was highly detrimental for the male's social prospects. Healthy height is a good thing, but what determine social success depends on the makeup and culture of that society more than anything else. As another example to consider - high intelligence is extremely valuable as a survival skill in nature but in modern Western societies it is highly negatively correlated with both sexual and professional success.

 

[Regina]

That's only true in some very specific Western countries. It really depends on how many other tall people around you there are and what the culture considers desirable. If you are one of the very few tall people in the area/country you can actually have a real problem getting a mate due to being perceived as a "freak". Males taller than 6 feet are considered weird in most East Asian countries and studies have been done on their poor reproductive success. Similar results have been found in several Latin American countries where the average male height is about 5'5'' and the optimal difference of height between a male and female was found to be about an inch in favor of the male. Anything more than 3 inch higher or taller was highly detrimental for the male's social prospects. Healthy height is a good thing, but what determine social success depends on the makeup and culture of that society more than anything else. As another example to consider - high intelligence is extremely valuable as a survival skill in nature but in modern Western societies it is highly negatively correlated with both sexual and professional success.

One has to be very careful not to reveal ANY intelligence what so ever. At least at my aikido dojo, it will get you temporarily ostracized or beat up. Oh dear, suggesting vit K2 was a huge mortal offense that continues to be thrown back in my face. Last night, a girl came in complaining of her ongoing "uterus pain" and I knew I would get my throat cut if I suggested progesterone.
Honestly, I will probably quit it altogether.
You are not allowed to be a grasshopper in a room full of locusts who have zero accountability. It's the lack of deeper optimism. A sort of trailer park mosh pit.

 

[What-a-Riot]

@Regina this might be more than slightly fantastic but... start your own dojo!

 

[Momado965]

Yes, to #1 and in fact high LH/FSH are well known to cause enlarged (but "fluffy") gonads in some males initially and then atrophy down the road. Infertility has many causes, and high pituitary hormones are a common one in males. Btw, high LH/FSH may also increase prolactin, which is well known to cause infertility in males.
Yes to #2 as well, if estrogen leads to release of GH. Estrogen is well known to cause pituitary hypertrophy and increase release of prolactin, but often it also causes increase in GH release as well. Males with gyno often have high prolactin, high estrogen AND high levels of GH. I posted a study somewhere on the forum showing all 3 hormones are implicated in gyno and they usually go hand in hand. So, if the high estrogen elevates GH enough this could lead to increased height with long, thin limbs.

The guy in the vid below is a great example

 

[Momado965]

One has to be very careful not to reveal ANY intelligence what so ever. At least at my aikido dojo, it will get you temporarily ostracized or beat up. Oh dear, suggesting vit K2 was a huge mortal offense that continues to be thrown back in my face. Last night, a girl came in complaining of her ongoing "uterus pain" and I knew I would get my throat cut if I suggested progesterone.
Honestly, I will probably quit it altogether.
You are not allowed to be a grasshopper in a room full of locusts who have zero accountability. It's the lack of deeper optimism. A sort of trailer park mosh pit.

Yeah. I for quite some time now have been getting a feeling that I shouldn't suggest anything even if I know exactly what's wrong, regarding diet or otherwise, or else I'll get my throat cut and worse they'll shun me. I wonder if this is the cliche of 'people don't want you to succeed.'

 

[AretnaP]

I wonder which came first, the high LH and testicle atrophy, or the inability to produce testosterone resulting in raised LH?

 

[MrThyroid]

and i thought HGH, LH and FSH is important for testicles development

 

[AretnaP]

and i thought HGH, LH and FSH is important for testicles development

Supposedly they are, but like Peat says, LH is inflammatory and thus can likely cause fibrosis in some tissues at a certain level.

 

[MrThyroid]

Supposedly they are, but like Peat says, LH is inflammatory and thus can likely cause fibrosis in some tissues at a certain level.

thats why i got an inflammation on my right epididymis i think i had too much LH **** it

 

[Regina]

Yeah. I for quite some time now have been getting a feeling that I shouldn't suggest anything even if I know exactly what's wrong, regarding diet or otherwise, or else I'll get my throat cut and worse they'll shun me. I wonder if this is the cliche of 'people don't want you to succeed.'

Yes. Definitely the crab pot mentality. It's useless trying to exist in a co-creative way.
But the metabolic derangement is characterized by elevated de-differentiating agents. So that the "if I can't have it, neither can you" logic follows if you can't perceive any difference.

 

[Xemnoraq]

Interestingly enough in regards to this talk on LH and desiring lower levels, it appears as though nicotine actually lowers or suppresses LH according to this study

Nicotine Inhibits Pulsatile Luteinizing Hormone Secretion in Human Males But Not in Human Females, and Tolerance to This Nicotine Effect Is Lost within One Week of Quitting Smoking

I'm starting to think nicotine acts similar to caffeine in many of its ways, I'm seeing alot of interesting studies on nicotine with positive outcomes