Everything that should improve thyroid makes me more hypothyroid

mostlylurking

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Utilizing carbs/glucose
Here's a video:


Please note that Haidut is saying that for thiamine hcl the dose is higher because of absorption issues in the gut. Please note he mentions 1500mg/day is not unusual. It depends on your ability to absorb it. I rocked along taking 100mg/day of thiamine hcl for 6 years and did fine with my Peaty diet and my prescription of natural desiccated thyroid. Then I got slammed by Bactrim antibiotic last summer which blocked my ability to use thiamine so my health changed drastically. Now I'm taking 2 grams/day of thiamine hcl and am recovering. It took several weeks to work up to that high a dose.
 
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mostlylurking

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In a day maybe 400-450
You need to do your own research into this. You know your own body and your circumstances, Don't rely on this forum to tell you what to do. I trust Ray Peat himself, not so much this forum. Although Ray has not said a whole lot about thiamine he has addressed it. Search for thiamine and also for B1. Here are some Ray Peat search engines you can use:
PeatSearch: a Ray Peat-specific search engine - Toxinless use the cell on the left. This one searches written articles.
Ray Peat Search This one searches audio shows.
also this: Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki
I have found these to be very helpful.

On several occasions I have heard Ray say that two quarts of milk plus one quart of orange juice have a good daily amount of sugars (carbs) for a person. That's just a general idea of how much is a good (reasonable) amount. He has also said that if you eat additional sugar you will need to supplement thiamine.

Because I got so very sick due to a thiamine blockage, I researched other sources too. For thiamine. Not so much for diet. I've been really sick before and Ray Peat's teachings saved my life so I have confidence in his expertise. There are lots of wild eyed "experts" out there to watch out for.

If eating sugar lays you low or if drinking coffee makes you feel bad you may have a thiamine deficiency. Sometimes it's hard to determine what exactly made you feel bad so it helps to keep a food diary.
 

schultz

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I pulled the number I used from an internet search. I'll see if I can find it. I can't find it now. However, I did find your number on another site other than a cronometer site. So my number could simply be wrong.

If you are very healthy and your body has no toxin load (like heavy metals or environmental toxins) or pharmaceutical drugs or antibiotics and your metabolism is working just great then the RDA numbers might work fine. My situation is much different and I require a lot more than the RDA for thiamine.

The need for thiamine also depends on how much sugar your body is burning for fuel. If you give it more sugar than you've got thiamine to process it, your body will convert the sugar to fat and store it.

It's an interesting topic, and I think most people, especially the general public, tend to ignore simple things like B-vitamins. I guess because they aren't some kind of fancy pharmaceutical drug.

There was a guy named Andrew Kim who used to write nice articles on his website with some topics related to Peat's ideas and he had a good one on thiamine and carbohydrates from what I remember. I wonder if his website is still around...? He kind of disappeared I think.
 

schultz

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There was a guy named Andrew Kim who used to write nice articles on his website with some topics related to Peat's ideas and he had a good one on thiamine and carbohydrates from what I remember. I wonder if his website is still around...? He kind of disappeared I think.

Okay, his old blog is still up I guess. I found the article I was thinking of but it wasn't an article on thiamin, he just mentions it briefly in the article...

"The capacity to use the increased oxygen is limited by the availability of all the B vitamins, including thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, pantothenic acid, and others. A regular and adequate supply of these vitamins improves the reserve and capacity of the Krebs cycle and respiratory chain. The active thyroid hormone, T3, stimulates all the reactions involved in the oxidative metabolism of glucose, increasing the requirement for all the B vitamins. The ingestion of simple carbohydrate also increases the requirement for the B vitamins, in particular thiamin."

Anyway, that passage stuck with me.

Edit: I just realized I'm replying to myself... which makes that last sentence a bit weird...
 

mostlylurking

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Okay, his old blog is still up I guess. I found the article I was thinking of but it wasn't an article on thiamin, he just mentions it briefly in the article...

"The capacity to use the increased oxygen is limited by the availability of all the B vitamins, including thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, pantothenic acid, and others. A regular and adequate supply of these vitamins improves the reserve and capacity of the Krebs cycle and respiratory chain. The active thyroid hormone, T3, stimulates all the reactions involved in the oxidative metabolism of glucose, increasing the requirement for all the B vitamins. The ingestion of simple carbohydrate also increases the requirement for the B vitamins, in particular thiamin."

Anyway, that passage stuck with me.

Edit: I just realized I'm replying to myself... which makes that last sentence a bit weird...
I reply to myself all the time. Doesn't seem that weird to me.... Thank you for the article; I'll go read it.

There's been quite a bit of research into thiamine and it's very interesting stuff. I think Elliot Overton has some excellent videos about thiamine on his youtube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFqXidfUsI0vm73xsBMIQdQ/videos. He also has a website with articles about thiamine here: Articles | Stafford | EONutrition

I also found Dr. Chandler Marrs' site here: Hormones Mattter She has some very good articles but I think she tries too hard to work within established medicine's wacko ideas. I think reading Ray Peat articles would be helpful and clarify some things for her.

Both Marrs and Overton are very bright and are actually working with sick people and making them better. Both are followers of Dr. Lonsdale, which means they both like to recommend TTFD thiamine. Dr. Lonsdale blames the current epidemic of thiamine deficiency diseased states on eating sugar. I'm so glad I spent 6 years studying Ray Peat before discovering this other view; I've been inoculated. So I'm learning what I can from these two people and shaking my head a lot too.

I've also spent quite a bit of time reading on Dr. Costantini's website here: HDT Therapy He treated over 4,000 people with Parkinson's Disease using high dose thiamine hcl. There are links to his papers via his Blog link. There is a lot of free information on his site.
 
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BearWithMe

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If your calcium scores are always high, that could be a major part of your problem. High calcium causes potassium wasting and poor magnesium status. It also will wreak havoc on your entire metabolism. If you're taking a vitamin D supplement or getting any via milk, you might want to stop.
Try searching for the secosteroid hormone D page on Facebook. There's a wealth of information on there. Also, the magnesium advocacy group on Facebook is good, and Matt Blackburns Facebook or Instagram.
You need to get your calcium down. Stop all vitamin d, increase potassium and magnesium, check your ceruloplasmin and copper, iron, zinc, rbc magnesium and potassium levels. Vitamin k might be helpful to direct all that calcium out of the blood and soft tissues and into bone where it belongs.
I took high dose vitamin D for several years and ended up with cavities and thinning/clear teeth. I stopped all vitamin D last year and worked on fixing mineral and electrolytes and now my cavities have shrunk in size and teeth are more opaque and healthy looking.
That makes a lot of sense.

The thing is, my hypercalcemia started in the period of my life when I had extremely low calcium intake (like 250mg a day). I believe my body was dissolving bones in desperate attempt to keep the homeostasis and that caused my high blood calcium.

In the past couple of years, I was eating at least 2,5g of calcium every day, together with all the cofactors needed for calcium absorbtion and utilization. Yet my body seems to be stuck in this high blood calcium state.

And I have no idea if I need more calcium or less calcium.

It could be both.
 

Elast1c

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Not sure what is happening, but my eyebrows are now getting visibly thinner and thinner every day, and my teeth hurts more than ever. I'm getting bald spots in my facial hair.

I need to do something ASAP before I lose all my teeth, my hair, my facial hair and body hair.

I'm thinking of starting thyroid supplementation again. It ended up in total disaster last time I tried (back in 2018), but maybe my metabolism and nutrient status is better now? Maybe I should start on the lowest dose possible, increasing the dosage reeeeally reeeeally slowly?
Not sure when reading but didn't aee a response to the carrot/antibiotic question. Had you tried the boiled mushrooms? Maybe with some parmesian reggiano? I put some tomato sauce if it doesn't seem to cause irritstion. Was in pretty much the same boat but after a couple days my temps went first down at night then came to a bit higher in the morning. I have a constant fight with the starch/sugar/hypo cycle and the thiamine doesnt seem to esc it.
 
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meatbag

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This post is pure gold, a well of knowledge. Thanks for the RP quotes!

I haven't had vitamin D / PTH test done recently, but I definitely have some kind of calcium metabolism problem. My total blood calcium and ionized calcium always comes back very high, it is getting higher and higher over time and it is directly correlated with my other issues (digestive etc) - the higher my blood calcium, the worse my digestion (and other problems) are.

Have tried Thiroyd NDT from Thailand (which I suspect might be of a poor quality) and Cynoplus.

Haven't been tracking temps and pulses back then. Definitely will do that when I start experimenting with thyroid supplement again.

The reason I'm using Thiamine Pyrophosphate is that I can't tolerate Thiamine HCL. It is giving me unbearable stomach pains.
If the fruit you're eating is very starchy, which a lot of fruit available isn't ripe or isn't ripened properly, it could cause digestion issues. I think mixing milk, sugar and coffee together in a ratio that tastes best can be a good way to get enough carbohydrate with adequate nutrition.
The Danny Roddy Weblog

It might be worth trying a vitamin D supplement. A lot of supplements on the market aren't very good and have additives or use a bad PUFA laden carrier like soybean oil but some use MCT or coconut oil; Vitamin D supplements with the fewest additives - Toxinless
 
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BearWithMe

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I think I might have selenium absorbtion problem. My diet never has adequate selenium to begin with. But every time I have tried selenium supplement, I ended up with horrible nausea and digestive problems. Have tried many forms of selenium supplements. They all do this, and high selenium foods too.
 
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BearWithMe

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I'm experimenting with pure T3 supplementation at the moment.

The effects are exactly the same as when I have tried Armour and Cynoplus few years back.

At first, absolutely zero effect whatsoever. It made literally zero difference in the way I feel. Like if I was eating sugar pills instead of the actual thyroid.

And then, after a couple of days of supplementing, rapid tooth decay.

What is wrong with me?
 

meatbag

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I'm experimenting with pure T3 supplementation at the moment.

The effects are exactly the same as when I have tried Armour and Cynoplus few years back.

At first, absolutely zero effect whatsoever. It made literally zero difference in the way I feel. Like if I was eating sugar pills instead of the actual thyroid.

And then, after a couple of days of supplementing, rapid tooth decay.

What is wrong with me?
can you pm me or post your blood work?
 

L_C

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I'm experimenting with pure T3 supplementation at the moment.

The effects are exactly the same as when I have tried Armour and Cynoplus few years back.

At first, absolutely zero effect whatsoever. It made literally zero difference in the way I feel. Like if I was eating sugar pills instead of the actual thyroid.

And then, after a couple of days of supplementing, rapid tooth decay.

What is wrong with me?
It's been some time since your thyroid issues. Were you able to figure out why you were not responding to thyroid?

Rapid tooth decay is also super scary. If you don't mind me asking how are your teeth now?
 

aniciete

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I'm experimenting with pure T3 supplementation at the moment.

The effects are exactly the same as when I have tried Armour and Cynoplus few years back.

At first, absolutely zero effect whatsoever. It made literally zero difference in the way I feel. Like if I was eating sugar pills instead of the actual thyroid.

And then, after a couple of days of supplementing, rapid tooth decay.

What is wrong with me?
How’s it going?
 
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BearWithMe

BearWithMe

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I'm coping by avoiding everything that might increase thyroid or steroid hormones, including B vitamins, zinc, and red light near the neck. Teeth are not getting worse when I'm avoiding the triggers.
 

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