Everything has Soy and it seems like it can't be avoided in North America - so what is protective?

[AnonE]

I had this realization the other day at the grocery store as I literally *could not* find a BREAD product that did not contain something called "Soy Lecithin". Bread for peat's sake... And I checked two dozen products at my local grocery store.

So what supplements would be protective against this nonsense that's in so many foods? General ideas so far: vitamin E, aspirin, fat solubles, and I was also thinking that more saturated fats would at least help the ratio of good fat : bad fat in the body. Looking for other ideas :)

 

[rei]

Soy can easily be avoided. For some reason you insist on bread (unhealthy) which almost always contains vegetable oil (unhealthy) and in your region even soy. Removing the soy does not make it a sane choice. Additionally removing vegetable oil does not make it desirable.

How much soy does dairy products, meats, nuts, fruits, honey, mushrooms, tubers, vegetables contain?

What you really are saying is that you insist on processed foods that you know to be unhealthy and want to try fix it using supplements, and it won't work nor is it really logical.

 

[danishstargazer]

....and how do the Japanese balance all the soy in their diet ? seaweed. ( iodine )

 

[animalcule]

Bread doesn't have to be unhealthy. Peat has recommended sourdough. You just have to be vigilant and check the ingredients, always. A good bakery will probably not used these additives/fillers/preservatives, but you'll find them in cheap grocery store products that must be shelf stable for a long time.

OR you could make your own bread. Making homemade sourdough bread with unbleached, unenriched flour is not that hard, just takes a time to wait for proper fermentation. I make a couple of loaves of 100% rye sourdough every week. Once you have a good starter going, you can leave your dough to rise overnight, bake it in the morning. Rye is easier than wheat though, bc there isn't much gluten so kneading and folding isn't that necessary.

 

[JamesGatz]

Do you live near a Trader Joe"s ? Their sourdough bread and croissants are soy-free - every other store I go to and the bread is loaded with hormone poison

 

[Ben.]

It may not be what you've asked for but i'd recommend finding a place where you can buy bread where its not part of the ingridient, like finding a small bakery somewhere or as it was said before, make your own sourdough bread with organic flour.

What troubles me alot more than the soy is , if i remember correctly, that grains accumulate alot of pesticides. So make it organic if at all possible.

 

[Dr. B]

....and how do the Japanese balance all the soy in their diet ? seaweed. ( iodine )

japanese eat fermented soy which breaks down the estrogens, toxins from the soy products. the seaweed is more tolerable due to all the massive goitrogenic foods they eat.
but, why does it matter what the Japanese are doing? what one specific group or race is doing has nothing to do with health etc...

It may not be what you've asked for but i'd recommend finding a place where you can buy bread where its not part of the ingridient, like finding a small bakery somewhere or as it was said before, make your own sourdough bread with organic flour.

What troubles me alot more than the soy is , if i remember correctly, that grains accumulate alot of pesticides. So make it organic if at all possible.

interesting mate, so burger buns pizza all that stuff is risky? does heating it help get rid of the pesticides? like arent pizzas heated to 400 degrees or more

 

[Ben.]

japanese eat fermented soy which breaks down the estrogens, toxins from the soy products. the seaweed is more tolerable due to all the massive goitrogenic foods they eat.
but, why does it matter what the Japanese are doing? what one specific group or race is doing has nothing to do with health etc...


interesting mate, so burger buns pizza all that stuff is risky? does heating it help get rid of the pesticides? like arent pizzas heated to 400 degrees or more

No food is without risk ... its just some foods like berries and i think, but dont quote me on it, grains accumulate alot more pesticdes than other foods. Think of it like arsenic rice. I think pesticides have different levels of heat and time required for their degradation but i think by the time you got rid of all the pesticides you might aswell have ruined everything else in your food.

If you can, buy organic and let it be sourdough, and if you happen to not acquire a ideal version of it ... atleast enjoy it as much as possible.

 

[Velve921]

Many people find that when they eliminate all PUFA and starchy rich foods, a lot of things start to improve.

I went through my challenges of giving up foods that I really enjoyed as far as taste. But when my health went off the rails I decided to make an absolute change.

If you want to limit soy, then getting away from breads, beans, nuts, seeds, oils can put a damper on this area. Your energy source will have much more clarity at this point.

 

[danishstargazer]

japanese eat fermented soy which breaks down the estrogens, toxins from the soy products. the seaweed is more tolerable due to all the massive goitrogenic foods they eat.
but, why does it matter what the Japanese are doing? what one specific group or race is doing has nothing to do with health etc...


interesting mate, so burger buns pizza all that stuff is risky? does heating it help get rid of the pesticides? like arent pizzas heated to 400 degrees or more

it matters because we can learn from their diet and they are some of the healthiest people in the world. simmer down now.

 

[Dr. B]

it matters because we can learn from their diet and they are some of the healthiest people in the world. simmer down now.

that's by mainstream thought which also claims estrogen is the healthiest hormone around... iirc the Japanese have a lot more thyroid issues due to the massive iodine intake... but regardless, their traditional methods of fermenting the soy products, do work for making them more nutritious and reducing the phytoestrogens. But I don't think the diet overall is ideal, something like the Maasai diet of raw milk, raw honey and raw beef organs is much more Peaty, supposedly some of them could see things clearly from a mile away

 

[danishstargazer]

mainstream thought ? im am not on that train. i am very pro all Dr Peats work - my point is , balance out the soy with iodine foods . i used to live in Japan - totally different scene than junk food humpty dumpty 'mericans drivin thru the drive thru. again- the japanese diet is pretty healthy in my opinion. :)

 

[Dr. B]

mainstream thought ? im am not on that train. i am very pro all Dr Peats work - my point is , balance out the soy with iodine foods . i used to live in Japan - totally different scene than junk food humpty dumpty 'mericans drivin thru the drive thru. again- the japanese diet is pretty healthy in my opinion. :)

the Japanese soy foods are fermented foods, the iodine is seaweed, those things may work well for some, but you wont be able to replicate the effects via soy protein bars and iodine supplements like in the US. but Peat has strongly cautioned against iodine usage, in my experience even 3mg potassium iodide once a week caused very severe effects, ive heard of people using much higher dosages, i have no idea how that works out for them, if they benefit or what happens exactly. many american restaurant foods actually have significant iodine, if you look at mcdonalds and burger king the salt is all iodized salt. the salt/food iodinization program may be behind a lot of the issues developing in the 1900s in the US

 

[BearWithMe]

Soy can easily be avoided. For some reason you insist on bread (unhealthy) which almost always contains vegetable oil (unhealthy) and in your region even soy. Removing the soy does not make it a sane choice. Additionally removing vegetable oil does not make it desirable.

How much soy does dairy products, meats, nuts, fruits, honey, mushrooms, tubers, vegetables contain?

What you really are saying is that you insist on processed foods that you know to be unhealthy and want to try fix it using supplements, and it won't work nor is it really logical.

very well said

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

....and how do the Japanese balance all the soy in their diet ? seaweed. ( iodine )

Japenese soy is different from american soy....


"Japanese women's relative freedom from breast cancer is independent of soy products: traditional soy foods aren't the same as those so widely used in the US, for example, soy sauce doesn't contain the so-called soy estrogens, and tea is used much more commonly in Japan than in the US, and contains health protective ingredients." -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I had this realization the other day at the grocery store as I literally *could not* find a BREAD product that did not contain something called "Soy Lecithin". Bread for peat's sake... And I checked two dozen products at my local grocery store.

So what supplements would be protective against this nonsense that's in so many foods? General ideas so far: vitamin E, aspirin, fat solubles, and I was also thinking that more saturated fats would at least help the ratio of good fat : bad fat in the body. Looking for other ideas :)

I buy sourdough and French bread made without yeast, just "starter", water and flour. I found several brands of chocolate without lecithin and I make my own soy sauce with coconut Aminos water and lots of salt, so good! I always say I would rather eat half as much good stuff than twice as much crap! Keep up the search for better, your health should be worth it.

 

[Dr. B]

Japenese soy is different from american soy....


"Japanese women's relative freedom from breast cancer is independent of soy products: traditional soy foods aren't the same as those so widely used in the US, for example, soy sauce doesn't contain the so-called soy estrogens, and tea is used much more commonly in Japan than in the US, and contains health protective ingredients." -Ray Peat

green tea catechins are carbonic anhydrase inhibitors

not sure how reliable Dr Axe is, but his website and many other websites talk about how fermented soy products have massively less phytoestrogens. things like soy sauce, natto, and random other fermented soy dishes commonly consumed in Japan, dont have the phyto estrogens.

although ive wondered if 'soy protein isolate' since its heavily processed maybe also loses some phytoestrogens? though that isn't common, usually it's soybean oil, or soy lecithin

where did you get that Peat quote on Japanese soy?

 

[Dr. B]

I buy sourdough and French bread made without yeast, just "starter", water and flour. I found several brands of chocolate without lecithin and I make my own soy sauce with coconut Aminos water and lots of salt, so good! I always say I would rather eat half as much good stuff than twice as much crap! Keep up the search for better, your health should be worth it.

@AnonE isnt there a popular quote on here where Peat said soy lecithin in chocolate is a very small amount so its usually safe?
it's likely its a small amount in bread. soy lecithin has the phytoestrogens, I think there's some websites saying soy lecithin is more dangerous than the oil, but strictly speaking if you're going off PUFA content, lecithin in food products is usually in the milligram amounts. one bun or bread roll may have a couple hundred milligrams lecithin. in terms of PUFA content it's already small... but according to some sites it's still dangerous due to things beyond simple pufa/calorie content...

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

@AnonE isnt there a popular quote on here where Peat said soy lecithin in chocolate is a very small amount so its usually safe?
it's likely its a small amount in bread. soy lecithin has the phytoestrogens, I think there's some websites saying soy lecithin is more dangerous than the oil, but strictly speaking if you're going off PUFA content, lecithin in food products is usually in the milligram amounts. one bun or bread roll may have a couple hundred milligrams lecithin. in terms of PUFA content it's already small... but according to some sites it's still dangerous due to things beyond simple pufa/calorie content...

The Japanese Diet Mystery Solved!

"When rats were fed a diet completely lacking tryptophan for a short period, or a diet containing only one fourth of the “normal” amount for a more prolonged period, the results were surprising: They kept the ability to reproduce up to the age of 36 months (versus 17 months for the rats on the...

raypeatforum.com

"Brain Damage And Lipid Peroxidation: When pregnant mice were fed either coconut oil or unsaturated seed oil, the mice that got coconut oil had babies with normal brains and intelligence, but the mice exposed to the unsaturated oil had smaller brains, and had inferior intelligence. In another experiment, radioactively labeled soy oil was given to nursing rats, and it was shown to be massively incorporated into brain cells, and to cause visible structural changes in the cells. In 1980, shortly after this study was published in Europe, the U.S. Department of Agriculture issued a recommendation against the use of soy oil in infant formulas. More recently, [68] pregnant rats and their offspring were given soy lecithin with their food, and the exposed offspring developed sensorimotor defects." -Ray Peat