Evening Starch / PUFA Cravings

[Dean]

post 106203

post 106190

Ice cream and gelatin are pretty awful choices for a hypothyroid person IMO.

??? Why???

Ice cream is high in fat which is no friend to a hypothyroid person. Hypothyroid people should probably only consume coconut oil as fat or very trace amounts of fat found in other founds that can't be avoided.

I doubt there has ever been a hypothyroid person capable of digesting gelatin.

What is it that makes gelatin hard for a hypo person to digest?

 

[tara]

post 106134 If you are craving fat at night, it means you didn't have enough calories during the day.

Seems to be like this for me too.

 

[Makrosky]

post 106202

post 106192

post 106184

Chicken is a very lean source of protien that is significantly better than milk for a hypothyroid person.

how do you figure that?

Hypothyroid people are all lactose intolerant and sodium deficient so feeding them milk will not only increase their serotonin due to bacterial fermentation, but it will also wreck their electrolyte balance due to the amount of liquid.

Wow. Those are very big assumptions. First, I never read/heard RP mention something like that. Where do you base these hypothesis ?

Second, what about lactose-free milk then ?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

post 106205 When your metabolism is fast you won't crave starch, it will disgust you and won't benefit you compared with simple sugars.

So the Okinawans had a slow metabolism and were disgusted by their food and forced themselves to eat it for a long time?

We crave food. And theres not much to choose from: fruits and starches, meats and fiber. Fruits are all fruits, starches are dense tubers, meats are all animal meats including fin fish, and fiber is all low calorie but high fiber plant foods. That's it besides nuts, seeds, and insects.

If you grew up in an insect eating culture then you will crave them. If you lived where they have the Yulin dog meat festival then you will crave dog meat. Do an image search for "Yulin Dog Meat festival." It's real.

post 106205 When your metabolism is slow starch is a dry food with added sodium

Poultry is dry. Try eating a piece of chicken with no salt added. No condiments. Try eating a hard boiled egg without salt. All foods except fruit requite salt and/or condiments.

There is no such thing as a salt free cheese for a reason.

 

[Makrosky]

post 106203

post 106190

Ice cream and gelatin are pretty awful choices for a hypothyroid person IMO.

??? Why???

Ice cream is high in fat which is no friend to a hypothyroid person. Hypothyroid people should probably only consume coconut oil as fat or very trace amounts of fat found in other founds that can't be avoided.

I doubt there has ever been a hypothyroid person capable of digesting gelatin.

Another big assumption. Source for that claim ?

So they are not capable of digesting gelatin, nor proteins in milk, so what other animal protein can they digest ? They're supposed to be the easiest ones to digest.

 

[tara]

post 106197 Without homogenization the cream separates and unless they literally ate all of the cream, they drank lower fat milk.

Do you have any evidence for Masai not eating the cream in their milk? Just because it's not homogenised doesn't make it automatic. Our local milk was all unhomogenised when I was growing up, so the cream rose to the top of the bottle. We either shook up the bottle before pouring, or sometimes vied to get the extra tasty cream at the top. Lots of people choose to drink whole milk now (homogenised or higher-priced unhomogenised) because they like it better than skim, despite all the exhortations to use skim milk to reduce calories/fat.

 

[tara]

post 106221

post 106203

post 106190

Ice cream and gelatin are pretty awful choices for a hypothyroid person IMO.

??? Why???

Ice cream is high in fat which is no friend to a hypothyroid person. Hypothyroid people should probably only consume coconut oil as fat or very trace amounts of fat found in other founds that can't be avoided.

I doubt there has ever been a hypothyroid person capable of digesting gelatin.

Another big assumption. Source for that claim ?

So they are not capable of digesting gelatin, nor proteins in milk, so what other animal protein can they digest ? They're supposed to be the easiest ones to digest.

I thought Peat said some [hypothyroid] people have trouble digesting gelatin, and for them he suggests the hydrolysed form?

 

[tara]

post 106224 I thought Peat said some [hypothyroid] people have trouble digesting gelatin, and for them he suggests the hydrolysed form?

It seems some people have trouble digesting milk, too, but there are also stories here of people making excellent recoveries with lots of milk.

 

[Sea]

post 106218

post 106202

post 106192

post 106184

Chicken is a very lean source of protien that is significantly better than milk for a hypothyroid person.

how do you figure that?

Hypothyroid people are all lactose intolerant and sodium deficient so feeding them milk will not only increase their serotonin due to bacterial fermentation, but it will also wreck their electrolyte balance due to the amount of liquid.

Wow. Those are very big assumptions. First, I never read/heard RP mention something like that. Where do you base these hypothesis ?

Second, what about lactose-free milk then ?

“Bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine can be caused by hypothyroidism (Lauritano, et al., 2007), and the substances produced by these bacteria can damage the lining of the small intestine, causing the loss of lactase enzymes (Walshe, et al., 1990).” - Ray Peat

"When digestive secretions are inadequate, and peristalsis is sluggish, bacteria and fungi can invade the small intestine, interfering with digestion and causing inflammation and toxic effects. Lactose malabsorption has been corrected just by correcting a deficiency of thyroid or progesterone…Sometimes having a daily carrot salad (grated, with salt, olive oil, and a few drops of vinegar) will stimulate (and disinfect) the small intestine enough to prevent fermentation.” - Ray Peat

"Fifty two strains of anaerobic bacteria isolated from the upper gut of patients with small intestinal bacterial overgrowth were screened for phospholipase activity. Bacteroides melaninogenicus spp intermedius had the greatest activity. The effects of culture supernatants of this organism and deoxycholate on intestinal calcium absorption and disaccharidase activity were studied using a rat closed loop model. The supernatant decreased the in vitro uptake of calcium by 15% (p less than 0.001). Deoxycholate reduced calcium uptake by 16% (p less than 0.001). Combined culture supernatant and deoxycholate reduced calcium uptake by 39% (p less than 0.001) suggesting a potentiation of supernatant activity by deoxycholate. Culture supernatant and deoxycholate, both alone and combined, significantly reduced lactase, sucrase, and maltase activity. Electron microscopic evidence showed degeneration of microvilli, disruption of mitochondrial structure, and swelling of the endoplasmic reticulum after exposure of the intestinal loops to the supernatant or deoxycholate." (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1973395)

Any hypothyroid person can see for themselves by monitoring the temp/pulse before and after consumption of milk. I doubt many will benefit from consumption of milk compared with a dry protien like lean meat or something like greek yogurt or cottage cheese which are both very easy to digest compared with milk.

 

[Makrosky]

post 106301

post 106218

post 106202

post 106192

post 106184

Chicken is a very lean source of protien that is significantly better than milk for a hypothyroid person.

how do you figure that?

Hypothyroid people are all lactose intolerant and sodium deficient so feeding them milk will not only increase their serotonin due to bacterial fermentation, but it will also wreck their electrolyte balance due to the amount of liquid.

Wow. Those are very big assumptions. First, I never read/heard RP mention something like that. Where do you base these hypothesis ?

Second, what about lactose-free milk then ?

“Bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine can be caused by hypothyroidism (Lauritano, et al., 2007), and the substances produced by these bacteria can damage the lining of the small intestine, causing the loss of lactase enzymes (Walshe, et al., 1990).” - Ray Peat

"When digestive secretions are inadequate, and peristalsis is sluggish, bacteria and fungi can invade the small intestine, interfering with digestion and causing inflammation and toxic effects. Lactose malabsorption has been corrected just by correcting a deficiency of thyroid or progesterone…Sometimes having a daily carrot salad (grated, with salt, olive oil, and a few drops of vinegar) will stimulate (and disinfect) the small intestine enough to prevent fermentation.” - Ray Peat

"Fifty two strains of anaerobic bacteria isolated from the upper gut of patients with small intestinal bacterial overgrowth were screened for phospholipase activity. Bacteroides melaninogenicus spp intermedius had the greatest activity. The effects of culture supernatants of this organism and deoxycholate on intestinal calcium absorption and disaccharidase activity were studied using a rat closed loop model. The supernatant decreased the in vitro uptake of calcium by 15% (p less than 0.001). Deoxycholate reduced calcium uptake by 16% (p less than 0.001). Combined culture supernatant and deoxycholate reduced calcium uptake by 39% (p less than 0.001) suggesting a potentiation of supernatant activity by deoxycholate. Culture supernatant and deoxycholate, both alone and combined, significantly reduced lactase, sucrase, and maltase activity. Electron microscopic evidence showed degeneration of microvilli, disruption of mitochondrial structure, and swelling of the endoplasmic reticulum after exposure of the intestinal loops to the supernatant or deoxycholate." (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1973395)

Any hypothyroid person can see for themselves by monitoring the temp/pulse before and after consumption of milk. I doubt many will benefit from consumption of milk compared with a dry protien like lean meat or something like greek yogurt or cottage cheese which are both very easy to digest compared with milk.

Ok. Thanks for the clarification Sea. What about lactose free milk then ? It should be better because you won't have problems with lactase enzymes.

And I don't understand how is it easier to digest a semi-solid like cottage cheese than a liquid. You say that because too much liquid is bad for hypothyroid people ?

 

[charlie]

post 106383 You say that because too much liquid is bad for hypothyroid people ?

Adding salt and warming up the liquid can sometimes negate those issues.

 

[Makrosky]

post 106384

post 106383 You say that because too much liquid is bad for hypothyroid people ?

Adding salt and warming up the liquid can sometimes negate those issues.

Charlie that's exactly what I thought. If the problem is the liquid nature of milk, then adding some salt should make the liquid more isotonic

 

[charlie]

post 106385 Charlie that's exactly what I thought. If the problem is the liquid nature of milk, then adding some salt should make the liquid more isotonic
Top

Or if I do not want to add it to the liquid, I will just do small pinches at a time. I do not need much because a lot of it seems to absorb through the tongue and under tongue, instant shot into the bloodstream.

If the pinched salt feels like it too much in my mouth, I will add a little bit of liquid, usually apple juice to help dilute it. But not much, want to try and keep it in my mouth for a bit.

 

[Sea]

post 106384

post 106383 You say that because too much liquid is bad for hypothyroid people ?

Adding salt and warming up the liquid can sometimes negate those issues.

Charlie that's exactly what I thought. If the problem is the liquid nature of milk, then adding some salt should make the liquid more isotonic

I think it is better for hypothyroid to avoid a lot of liquids since their body will have a much more difficult time handling the water even if salt is added. I think many hypothyroid people will require an absurd amount of salt to really make a lot of liquid work and most won't have the desire or drive to consume the required amounts. I think a far better approach is to consume dry protien and carbohydrate sources to get the temp/pulse back above normal at which point milk won't pose as much of an issue.

 

[Makrosky]

post 106461

post 106384

post 106383 You say that because too much liquid is bad for hypothyroid people ?

Adding salt and warming up the liquid can sometimes negate those issues.

Charlie that's exactly what I thought. If the problem is the liquid nature of milk, then adding some salt should make the liquid more isotonic

I think it is better for hypothyroid to avoid a lot of liquids since their body will have a much more difficult time handling the water even if salt is added. I think many hypothyroid people will require an absurd amount of salt to really make a lot of liquid work and most won't have the desire or drive to consume the required amounts. I think a far better approach is to consume dry protien and carbohydrate sources to get the temp/pulse back above normal at which point milk won't pose as much of an issue.

All right.

 

[PeatThemAll]

I've been changing my diet a lot. A couple of conclusions:

* Esselstyn-style diet (no oil, no fat, vegan diet): In my case, minimal starch (only for bowel movement volume, or calorie catch-up). Feels very, very much like when I tried the Burr-style diet (zero fat, cottage cheese, sugar, etc.) Feels a little too "wired" after a while.
* Even after one month on the above, something's definitely missing. Had to resume eating meat (at least once a week). Wouldn't be surprised that I can't do the epigenetic switch. n=1, we're not all meant to be (or thrive) vegan.
* You have no idea how many calories your body needs to heal, whether from daily demands, past metabolic damage, caloric restriction, intermittent starving ... er fasting, or just to recharge from the day's expeditures. Give in to specific cravings, even if the amount at that time might be scary. YourEatopia has good posts on this.
* Peat-style (high-carb), 80/10/10, Rice Diet can work, assuming you have cleared the (metabolic) highway. I don't count calories, but I wouldn't be surprised to see I'm eating 1,000 more calories a day, mostly from carbs, and having faster exercise recovery. Take out the PUFAs and other endothelial (circulation / oxygen delivery) irritants, and your cells have a far, far easier time taking in the jet fuel.

 

[PeatThemAll]

Still recovering from my Esselstyn-style vegan experiment.

What rapidly made a difference (felt the effects within a day):
* L-Glutamine: 5 grams on empty stomach, then 20 minutes before lunch/dinner. Working my way up to 40 grams a day.
* Udo's Digestive Enzymes (Daily Maintenance), 2 caps/meal.
* Belly massages.

It's nice to hear things moving again. Bowel movements steady (frequency, Bristol #) regardless of what I eat.

 

[Makrosky]

Still recovering from my Esselstyn-style vegan experiment.

What rapidly made a difference (felt the effects within a day):
* L-Glutamine: 5 grams on empty stomach, then 20 minutes before lunch/dinner. Working my way up to 40 grams a day.
* Udo's Digestive Enzymes (Daily Maintenance), 2 caps/meal.
* Belly massages.

It's nice to hear things moving again. Bowel movements steady (frequency, Bristol #) regardless of what I eat.

Why the L-Glutamine ?

 

[PeatThemAll]

Preferred fuel for gut-lining cells. If these cells are fuel deficient, it doesn't matter what you eat as they can't do their job (and then what you eat = wasted, at least part of it). Alternative source of brain fuel too.

 

[Makrosky]

Preferred fuel for gut-lining cells. If these cells are fuel deficient, it doesn't matter what you eat as they can't do their job (and then what you eat = wasted, at least part of it). Alternative source of brain fuel too.

Are you aware of this ?
Glutamic acid doubles prolactin and cortisol in humans