Even Intermittent Fasting Reduces Insulin Sensitivity (in The Obese)

[montmorency]

post 99758

post 99756 I know people who do very bad when fasting.
My mother and my older brother for example.

But ... some people do really well when fasting.
Me, for example, my father as well.

So I have a bit mixed feelings about this ...

I am now doing for 2 and a half week, every day, no eating (no colories) until 3 o'clock. Sometimes even until 5 o'clock or 6 o'clock.
I do drink coffee (5 cups or something). I drink some fresh mint tea. I put estroban/stressnon on my skin. I take energin with some water.

I would say that the ability to fast without stress depends more on your diet and habits rather than the person. This is what I conclude from my own experience but also conceptually it makes sense. For example if you get your energy from constant sugar feeding, you are more sensitive to insulin and may get into stress or hypoglycaemia faster when not getting your next meal. When you have more balanced towards saturated fatty acids as energy, the insulin sensitivity is decreased and the body is used to keeping blood sugar stable by distributing glucose to organs who prefer it only and fatty acids to the rest. Ultimately you don't react well if you suddenly change your energy supply, and that seems more likely to happen when you're on frequent carb meals because less is stored, or when you're deficient in calories (whether fats or glucose). It is interesting to notice that we fast every day when we go to bed. If we wake up stressed with an urge to go to kitchen, that looks like severe energy deficiency and inability to do fasting without damage. That used to happen to me but it is completely avoidable. The same can be same about physical exercise, probably.

Ties in with my experience I think.

When I'm at home (or not far from home) I can miss a meal (typically lunch), provided that I had plenty of fat (animal fat + coconut oil) at breakfast, maybe topped up by CNO in a drink.

If I'm away, it seems more problematic, and I suspect it's because I'm usually not able to breakfast in the way I would at home.

When we "fast" at night, we are living off fat or ketones, I believe.

 

[Kasper]

I believe that you can store up to 200 gram of glycogen in your muscles and liver. So that could also be used during fasting.

 

[tara]

post 99778 I believe that you can store up to 200 gram of glycogen in your muscles and liver. So that could also be used during fasting.

That's my understanding, too, if the liver is in good shape.

Mittir has talked about his presumed glycogen storage capacity increasing remarkably as his liver health improved, so that he can now fast for 12 or more hours without any apparent stress. But it didn't happen overnight.

 

[extremecheddar]

My ability to fast has completely been lost over the past couple of years. I cannot figure it out.I blame paleo but peating has failed to help.

 

[Amazoniac]

post 99199

post 99198 Why do some people have very good improvements to their health issues while fasting?

Maybe:
- they got a break from a particular food that was aggravating them (might have been able to get this by just eliminating the offending food)
- they got a reduced endotoxin load in the short term
- they got increased stress hormones, which reduced inflammation somewhere that was bothering them
- they got increased stress hormones, which made them feel better
- they thought losing weight was a health improvement in itself
- they had unstable blood sugar management before, and when they stopped eating their system supplied stable blood sugars by way of chronically elevated (catabolic) cortisol
- they got some temporary relief of symptoms, but eventually they ran their metabolism down from insufficient nutrition, and then things got worse, but they didn't report back to the same blog/thread etc where they published their initial apparent improvements
- they really did benefit from fasting temporarily to give their system a break to recover from something specific

Nice!

 

[Sea]

The Japanese Sumo wrestlers are experts at putting on fat. Sumos can reach a weight of 600 pounds!

They practice daily intermittent fasting in order to purposefully slow down their metabolisms so that they can reach a high body fat% in order to better compete in the sport which involves shoving the other player out of a small ring.

"A sumo wrestler's day begins around 5am with morning training. They peel themselves out of bed and go directly to the training room. Working out on an empty stomach has its advantages in the effort to gain weight, Matsuda says, as this helps slow down the body's metabolism and makes burning calories more difficult...

By fasting overnight and before morning training, sumo wrestlers switch their bodies to a fat storing mode when all the dishes are served on the table. Sitting in a circle, they are ready to dig in. Matsuda recalls some wrestlers who eat five kilograms of meat or ten bowls of rice in one meal."(http://travel.cnn.com/tokyo/none/secret ... iet-067161)

Many dieters seem to have unknowingly adopted aspects of the sumo method.

 

[haidut]

post 102380 The Japanese Sumo wrestlers are experts at putting on fat. Sumos can reach a weight of 600 pounds!

They practice daily intermittent fasting in order to purposefully slow down their metabolisms so that they can reach a high body fat% in order to better compete in the sport which involves shoving the other player out of a small ring.

"A sumo wrestler's day begins around 5am with morning training. They peel themselves out of bed and go directly to the training room. Working out on an empty stomach has its advantages in the effort to gain weight, Matsuda says, as this helps slow down the body's metabolism and makes burning calories more difficult...

By fasting overnight and before morning training, sumo wrestlers switch their bodies to a fat storing mode when all the dishes are served on the table. Sitting in a circle, they are ready to dig in. Matsuda recalls some wrestlers who eat five kilograms of meat or ten bowls of rice in one meal."(http://travel.cnn.com/tokyo/none/secret ... iet-067161)

There you have it. In humans, purposefully starving or training on an empty stomach makes you gain fat.

 

[Kasper]

My father has lost 10 kg, by only eating in the afternoon/evening. Maybe they gain fat because of eating five kilograms of meat or ten bowls of rice in one meal?

 

[Kasper]

I still eat only after 3pm. Only sometimes in the weekends I eat the whole day long. I'm not gaining fat (never have gained fat in my life though).

 

[haidut]

post 102397 My father has lost 10 kg, by only eating in the afternoon/evening. Maybe they gain fat because of eating five kilograms of meat or ten bowls of rice in one meal?

What kind of weight did your father lose - fat or muscle? This has been tested hundreds of times. If you starve you will lose weight. But it will start with your thymus and muscles.

 

[Kasper]

I don't think he has lost much muscle, at least he presses the same weights in the gym. (1 time a week). He has noticeably lost fat. I can't speak of his thymus.

Btw, one thing to note. For me, and my father, it doesn't feel like starving. I know other family members, who tried the same and felt like starving and low energy. But we both just don't feel like this. No feelings of suffering.

Also my fathers digestion has noticeably improved. I didn't know this, but he seemed to have had chronically soft poop. This improved after not eating in the morning for a couple of weeks he said. Now he has "normal" poop. Also in the holiday he was eating "normally" for 2 months. And it is still the same.

Just posting me and my fathers experiences here. I don't want to make to general statements here. I just feel very good in this way.

 

[PeatThemAll]

Is it true that animals fast when sick? Or is this something we observed from pets who are just tired of eating crappy dog food?

I had doubts about this one and fasted 24 hours when I was fighting a cold (basically stopped eating because I didn't feel like it, had coffee/green tea here and there though). Fastest decrease in symptoms (inflammation) and best healing progression (moving from watery to dense expectorations) in my life when fighting a cold. It acted like a time compressor: the sick feelings and symptoms were the same in terms of intensity, but far, far shorter.

Will definitely do it again in the future in such circustances (fighting a cold).

 

[PeatThemAll]

The Japanese Sumo wrestlers are experts at putting on fat. Sumos can reach a weight of 600 pounds!

They practice daily intermittent fasting in order to purposefully slow down their metabolisms so that they can reach a high body fat% in order to better compete in the sport which involves shoving the other player out of a small ring.

"A sumo wrestler's day begins around 5am with morning training. They peel themselves out of bed and go directly to the training room. Working out on an empty stomach has its advantages in the effort to gain weight, Matsuda says, as this helps slow down the body's metabolism and makes burning calories more difficult...

By fasting overnight and before morning training, sumo wrestlers switch their bodies to a fat storing mode when all the dishes are served on the table. Sitting in a circle, they are ready to dig in. Matsuda recalls some wrestlers who eat five kilograms of meat or ten bowls of rice in one meal."(http://travel.cnn.com/tokyo/none/secret ... iet-067161)

Many dieters seem to have unknowingly adopted aspects of the sumo method.

Have you seen the composition of their staple meal? Carbs + fats at the same time and in big quantities = ticket to guaranteed fat storage.

 

[Parsifal]

post 112459

Is it true that animals fast when sick? Or is this something we observed from pets who are just tired of eating crappy dog food?

I had doubts about this one and fasted 24 hours when I was fighting a cold (basically stopped eating because I didn't feel like it, had coffee/green tea here and there though). Fastest decrease in symptoms (inflammation) and best healing progression (moving from watery to dense expectorations) in my life when fighting a cold. It acted like a time compressor: the sick feelings and symptoms were the same in terms of intensity, but far, far shorter.

Will definitely do it again in the future in such circustances (fighting a cold).

Could be because your thymus becomes inactivated so your body doens't fight the infection as actively? Or just because the starch/endoxotins make you get the cold?

 

[superhuman]

Strange since people that promote the intermittent fasting like 12-18 hours fasts a day says it increases insulin sensitivity

 

[chispas]

There you have it. In humans, purposefully starving or training on an empty stomach makes you gain fat.

I think what helps the Sumos put on weight is eating huge amounts (5000 - 7500 calories) in singular, spaced out servings. Many still eat three times a day. They aren't starving at any point, because they are taking long periods to digest the huge quantities of food they eat before and after their training. I wouldn't compare it to lifting weights for twenty minutes with no food in the stomach.

Have a look at the video on Chanko-Nabe: https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...UP60bk&usg=AFQjCNE3G3rOE1dtyJfEL9IVFiIfSZvbvQ

I personally don't think intermittant fasting is a good idea - but mostly because I don't think most of the exercise people do is a good idea. I don't think high intensity exercise or even bodybuilding is healthy at all. But lifting something heavy in a deliberate manner for a few reps does not have to be high intensity. In can even be quite cerebral conducting the exercise properly.

I've been doing some basic barbell presses (5 - 10 mins of exercise) on an empty stomach for a few weeks, three times a week, and I went from hardly being able to do five reps, to doing 30 reps in a row for several sets.

The way some folks on this forum expect a life of zero exercise to benefit them is a bit hopeful.

 

[Such_Saturation]

But lifting something heavy in a deliberate manner for a few reps does not have to be high intensity. In can even be quite cerebral conducting the exercise properly.

I've been doing some basic barbell presses (5 - 10 mins of exercise) on an empty stomach for a few weeks, three times a week, and I went from hardly being able to do five reps, to doing 30 reps in a row for several sets.

Sure you ain't growing your glycolytic fibers?

 

[chispas]

Sure you ain't growing your glycolytic fibers?

Well if I was that wouldn't be a bad thing. But according to the dominant understanding, there's fast oxidative, and fast glycolytic. How do you know which one is working?

 

[Such_Saturation]

Well if I was that wouldn't be a bad thing. But according to the dominant understanding, there's fast oxidative, and fast glycolytic. How do you know which one is working?

I desume the things that you can do for the very least amount of time (heavy weightlifting) would be fast glycolytic. Why is it a good thing?

 

[chispas]

I desume the things that you can do for the very least amount of time (heavy weightlifting) would be fast glycolytic. Why is it a good thing?

It's good because muscle contraction will be fast. Hence faster velocity, and greater force production. Maybe even better balance.