Estrogenic Facial Edema VS Androgenic Facial Appearence And Structure

[schultz]

Cool man, definitely great progress! Don't worry about your neck dude, it's quite in proportion to your physique, few people want a hulk looking neck where you can't distinguish between a head and a neck. That's bad aesthetics if you ask me. It's fine if your neck develops from weight training (indirectly), but I wouldn't recommend training it directly. Parkour also works the neck a lot, so it's not like you have a weak or underdeveloped neck.

I was sort of thinking the same thing. Jake took the criticism well though.

Camera distortion is also something to consider, especially if the pictures were taken with a wide angle lens not unlike those found on a cellphone. Something in the range of a full-frame 70-120mm could alter a person appearance quite a bit compared to a 30mm focal length . Also, if the head is a bit forward or the camera is on a bit of an angle, the head could look disproportionately bigger than the neck, or any other body part for that matter.

 

[schultz]

My wife says both of those necks are unattractive and that a 'normal' neck is the most attractive, lol.

 

[cyclops]

Before looking at the pictures I told myself to not look at the dates so I had no idea which were "before" and which were "after", otherwise there would be some bias when looking at the pictures. I could not tell the difference between the pictures even after staring for a bit (sounds gay man).

This is good news because it appears that you aged well since I literally couldn't tell which was before and after. Maybe not what you want to hear since I did not notice anything about facial structure difference.

That being said, your face doesn't look estrogenic, or moon-face to me at all. I'm actually not sure what anyone is talking about when they say progress. I'm not sure there is any progress to be made. Fluid retention in the face and/or moonface is typically a sign of high cortisol, estrogen, and water retention, I don't see that in your face at all.

Are u serious? Dude looks way different and way better. Look at the shirt off pics. Its like a night and day difference.

Keep up the great work op. Thanks for posting.

 

[rmgwm]

Are u serious? Dude looks way different and way better. Look at the shirt off pics. Its like a night and day difference.

Keep up the great work op. Thanks for posting.

I could be wrong but I still don't see it. In the shirt off picture I see a difference because he's letting his mouth droop in one and in the other he has his mouth closed : Importance Of Lip Seal In Facial Attractiveness

But I also don't think any of the pictures look estrogenic in the face, I've seen it in others and he doesn't have it IMO

 

[poilochio]

Interesting... im open to new ideas how does neck strengthening change facial features? Couldnt you do that just by doing powerlifting like squats and deadlifts etc shrugs?

Join your local wrestling team for 1 year your neck will transform automatically... Believe me I see it all the time (I'm a wrestling coach)

 

[Xemnoraq]

I could be wrong but I still don't see it. In the shirt off picture I see a difference because he's letting his mouth droop in one and in the other he has his mouth closed : Importance Of Lip Seal In Facial Attractiveness

But I also don't think any of the pictures look estrogenic in the face, I've seen it in others and he doesn't have it IMO

So what im more so referring to is in the first picture where theres 2 on the left and one on the right you can clearly see on the left how much more puffy my face looks in regards to bloating and water retention where as in the picture on the right you can see more definition in my face and less bloating in the cheeks ill provide more pictures to maybe give a more clear example my face back then just used to almost look chubby even though i was never overweight and that was the water retention etc.

 

[Xemnoraq]

This is cool. How is your days looking foodwise?

Basically an all fruit diet with dairy added in and occasional eggs, as close to fat free as i can get it, my main focus is keeping PUFA at around 0.5g or below 1g a day and keeping iron intake low and emphasizing on lots of sugar with no starch is the way i prefer to eat or way that i find gives me the best results

 

[BigChad]

Basically an all fruit diet with dairy added in and occasional eggs, as close to fat free as i can get it, my main focus is keeping PUFA at around 0.5g or below 1g a day and keeping iron intake low and emphasizing on lots of sugar with no starch is the way i prefer to eat or way that i find gives me the best results

what are the reasons/benefits to doing sugars as primary carb source and avoiding starches? I thought starches are fine if cooked? Some say starches are more "anabolic" than the sugars and sugars are more likely to store as fat while starches are more likely to store as glycogen.

 

[JDreamer]

I need to ready thru this thread because I've had this puffy face problem for the last 10+ years. A lot of times I'm too scared to look at pictures of myself because of it (especially the right side of my face).

 

[BigChad]

I need to ready thru this thread because I've had this puffy face problem for the last 10+ years. A lot of times I'm too scared to look at pictures of myself because of it (especially the right side of my face).

It could be estrogen, cortisol, histamine

 

[JDreamer]

It could be estrogen, cortisol, histamine

I was looking at old blood serum labs and did the math on estrogen/progesterone ratio. It's definitely estrogen-dominance, especially given that my testosterone is always towards the bottom of the range.

Puffy and bloated has been a strange look with my otherwise athletic physique.

 

[BigChad]

I was looking at old blood serum labs and did the math on estrogen/progesterone ratio. It's definitely estrogen-dominance, especially given that my testosterone is always towards the bottom of the range.

Puffy and bloated has been a strange look with my otherwise athletic physique.

You use fat soluble vitamins?
Diet?

 

[milkboi]

Basically an all fruit diet with dairy added in and occasional eggs, as close to fat free as i can get it, my main focus is keeping PUFA at around 0.5g or below 1g a day and keeping iron intake low and emphasizing on lots of sugar with no starch is the way i prefer to eat or way that i find gives me the best results

How is 0,5g PUFA or below eating mainly fruits possible? From what I know that's not achievable, if you are eating a reasonable amount of calories.

 

[Xemnoraq]

How is 0,5g PUFA or below eating mainly fruits possible? From what I know that's not achievable, if you are eating a reasonable amount of calories.

If your eating predominantly tropical fruits with no seeds in them its quite easy, most fruits that even have the smallest amount of PUFA such as 0.1 g usually have large amounts of vitamin E naturally in them, more than enough to counter the microscopic amount of PUFA in my opinion is the way i see it

 

[boris]

Great process .

I made a similar experience. Around 2014 before my "metabolic crash" I had a regular body with chubby cheeks.

Then from the beginning of 2019 (extremely emaciated, start of peating) till now (regular body) I gained some lean muscle mass back without exercise and a healthy looking layer of fat, but my face stayed slim.

 

[Arbaz123]

my face had the same results from peating for about a year and half and its been getting better ever since , theres a post i made a while back with the pics

 

[laleto12]

Gosh, great results! I need this desperately, my face is so bloated. Need that androgenic appearence.

 

[Xemnoraq]

In my experience now my face still seems way more defined than before, however it does get bloated up very often and i personally find this is due to endotoxin issues,

Since the bowel is a large synthesizing site of serotonin i personally believe the vasoconstriction from serotonin causes a relatively hypoxic/starved environment in the skin, likely especially prounouned in the face im guessing because gravity and its more difficult to get blood pumped to the head in general but especially under the influence of congestion from serotonin,

But also the increase estrogen i believe causes the vascular swelling and systemic water retention, so i think keeping endotoxin low and all around staying in a hypermetabolic state is ideal,

Endotoxin seems to be the biggest culprit for facial bloating by skewing the hormones in a negative direction, and haidut made posts showing endotoxin is directly anti-androgenic,

But i think the vasocontriction from serotonin really promotes this fluid build up in the face,

I notice really good success suprisingly in reducing facial bloating by either having a cigarette, or some vitamin E both of which are known to have powerful aromatase inhibiting properties, and effects on inhibiting platelet aggregation,

Vitamin E really tones my face i find and as for tobacco, there was a recent study i came across showing tobacco reduces platelet aggression quite a bit and inhibited some of the downstream inflammatory byproducts of PUFA such as the thromboxanes, one study with pure nicotine inhibited one of the prostaglandins by something like 70% id have to go over it again and check so im just paraphrasing

 

[john_snow]

Did you take supplements, Vit K2, Preg/Prog/DHEA or it was all from diet alone?

When fasting for 24h or more I look like a different person, as soon as I resume eating my cheeks get saggy again, I hate it.

 

[Regina]

My wife says both of those necks are unattractive and that a 'normal' neck is the most attractive, lol.

I agree with your wife.
And a normal voice too. This guy sounds like a chipmuck.