Estrogen overload or sluggish liver?

[Dutchie]

I'm not sure if Dr Garret Smith counts as a credible source of information but he says that constipation from taking sequestrants like clay and activated charcoal is due to insufficient bile flow. I think there might be some truth to it, when my liver was very congested I could not tolerate much fiber from beans or oatmeal at all without getting an "intoxication effect". Have you tried the hot water protocol to stimulate bile flow?

During Winter and Fall especially when it's colder, I always drank warm water...lol, even before I knew it was a thing.
Now anything warm (water, food) adds to nausea. I have to drink water at room temp.

 

[Blossom]

I haven’t read the full content of the thread.

It was a general statement for others who come after - looking for answers that would align more with Peat (vs Hurd).

Good idea! Thank you

 

[Korven]

During Winter and Fall especially when it's colder, I always drank warm water...lol, even before I knew it was a thing.
Now anything warm (water, food) adds to nausea. I have to drink water at room temp.

I see... Hmm that sounds horrible, nausea is not fun at all. Have you ever gotten tested for H. pylori? It can cause some serious nausea and loss appetite, and just overall mess with proper digestion (bloating, burping, pain after eating)

 

[Dutchie]

I see... Hmm that sounds horrible, nausea is not fun at all. Have you ever gotten tested for H. pylori? It can cause some serious nausea and loss appetite, and just overall mess with proper digestion (bloating, burping, pain after eating)

There's no h.pylori...this seems to be hormone related, bc I experienced it last month also when my seasonal period decided to show up again (the nausea only is more severe this month).

 

[shanny]

Starch slows my bowels too much. I would like to avoid constapition, it'll only add to toxic load.

Understood. Nobody wants that!

 

[shanny]

Peat believes migraines are a symptom of high serotonin which also increases estrogen and histamine which burdens the liver. I've been benefiting from cyproheptadine started at a low dose of 1 mg and increasing. I have temporarily limited muscle meats, liver and egg yolks to help limit tryptophan and inflammatory amino acids and getting most of protein from low fat milk, cheese and some gelatin powder and plenty of OJ with meals and on it's own between meals to help maintain blood sugar. Bamboo shoots for the soluble fibre. I use progest-e. I am also using additional caffeine as well as coffee which I feel is also helping lower serotonin after reading a few Haidut's posts regarding caffeine and it's benefits especially in helping the liver. Having gone backwards and forwards with Peat's recommendations and with more starch and now no starch over the past few years I am now finally seeing improvements in pain free time of the month and improvements with the migraines which have been chronic. Temperature and pulse are improving too. I am also on cynoplus in the evening before bed and extra T3 during the day. I am in my early 50s and this is what is working for me but I wish I knew this information years ago which would have saved me a lot of suffering. Hope this helps and good luck in your healing.

You're doing no starch with the milk, cheese and OJ? Do you feel like you're getting enough calories? I'm glad you're getting better, it's worth it to restrict if things are continuing to improve!

 

[Neeters 27]

I buy progesterone powder in bulk from China.

why bother with that, Progesterone cream is so cheap I get it for 13 bucks on iherb it lasts months if you get the 4 ounce jar

 

[lymantriadispsr]

Peat believes migraines are a symptom of high serotonin which also increases estrogen and histamine which burdens the liver. I've been benefiting from cyproheptadine started at a low dose of 1 mg and increasing. I have temporarily limited muscle meats, liver and egg yolks to help limit tryptophan and inflammatory amino acids and getting most of protein from low fat milk, cheese and some gelatin powder and plenty of OJ with meals and on it's own between meals to help maintain blood sugar. Bamboo shoots for the soluble fibre. I use progest-e. I am also using additional caffeine as well as coffee which I feel is also helping lower serotonin after reading a few Haidut's posts regarding caffeine and it's benefits especially in helping the liver. Having gone backwards and forwards with Peat's recommendations and with more starch and now no starch over the past few years I am now finally seeing improvements in pain free time of the month and improvements with the migraines which have been chronic. Temperature and pulse are improving too. I am also on cynoplus in the evening before bed and extra T3 during the day. I am in my early 50s and this is what is working for me but I wish I knew this information years ago which would have saved me a lot of suffering. Hope this helps and good luck in your healing.

Thank you I so appreciate this in depth response, I have been trying to incorporate gelatin gummies in my routine and feel encouraged to better commit to it!

 

[Dutchie]

Just saw this in an article, so going by this a pectin supplementen should be able to do the same:

Black beans contain pectin, a form of soluble fiber that becomes gummy-like in water.

 

[Matestube]

why bother with that, Progesterone cream is so cheap I get it for 13 bucks on iherb it lasts months if you get the 4 ounce jar

Because I like to know what I take and take exactly how much I want, without unecessary ingredients.

 

[Stacy]

Thank you I so appreciate this in depth response, I have been trying to incorporate gelatin gummies in my routine and feel encouraged to better commit to it!

Glad it was helpful :}

 

[Stacy]

You're doing no starch with the milk, cheese and OJ? Do you feel like you're getting enough calories? I'm glad you're getting better, it's worth it to restrict if things are continuing to improve!

Thank you. No, no starch, I use the OJ and milk as my main source of carbs but I also do add white sugar to my milk and coffees to make up calories. I just feel better doing this while I work on gut health. I probably have about 6 cups of milk (with coffee added) and about 32 fl oz OJ but this is spread throughout the day. I eat every 2.5 -3 hrs. which I prefer to do or it feels that what I need at this time and I average around 2500 calories once I've added low fat cheese, sugar, gelatin powder and then when I add back in some more protein from meat, egg yolks. Obviously this may change as I continue healing but it's what feels good for me right now and doesn't feel restrictive I think getting enough calories is really important but I guess what foods are down to the individual and gut health in what you can tolerate.. Sometimes I might have some chocolate as well.

 

[InChristAlone]

Thank you. No, no starch, I use the OJ and milk as my main source of carbs but I also do add white sugar to my milk and coffees to make up calories. I just feel better doing this while I work on gut health. I probably have about 6 cups of milk (with coffee added) and about 32 fl oz OJ but this is spread throughout the day. I eat every 2.5 -3 hrs. which I prefer to do or it feels that what I need at this time and I average around 2500 calories once I've added low fat cheese, sugar, gelatin powder and then when I add back in some more protein from meat, egg yolks. Obviously this may change as I continue healing but it's what feels good for me right now and doesn't feel restrictive I think getting enough calories is really important but I guess what foods are down to the individual and gut health in what you can tolerate.. Sometimes I might have some chocolate as well.

Cypro is a very strong anti-serotonin and it can help while you heal but be aware of your liver enzymes. Mine increased on just 0.5 mg a day for a yr. I think it backs up the liver so that you don't feel the effects of bile as badly. But that's also one cause of people needing to have their gallbladder taken out. It becomes so full of cholesterol stones and so inflamed that it doesn't work anymore. Good bile release and good fiber binding in the diet is essential for getting rid of estrogen. I think cypro made me more estrogenic even if it relieved my symptoms for a time. Bamboo shoots have good cholesterol binding capabilities but I don't know if one small serving a day is enough. That's where the Karen Hurd approach comes in with multiple times a day small amounts of soluble fiber to get the bile less sludgy and full of estrogen. Coffee can also promote bile release as long as you don't recirculate it too much. But over time I think even coffee is not going to help a backed up liver, otherwise those who use coffee wouldn't need to use progesterone and thyroid.

I'm sorry to hear about your chronic migraines I know how awful pain it is I've been through some severe pain as well in my life. Binding bile seems to be the best way to solve it forever, lowers estrogen burden on the liver.

 

[Dolomite]

Cypro is a very strong anti-serotonin and it can help while you heal but be aware of your liver enzymes. Mine increased on just 0.5 mg a day for a yr. I think it backs up the liver so that you don't feel the effects of bile as badly. But that's also one cause of people needing to have their gallbladder taken out. It becomes so full of cholesterol stones and so inflamed that it doesn't work anymore. Good bile release and good fiber binding in the diet is essential for getting rid of estrogen. I think cypro made me more estrogenic even if it relieved my symptoms for a time. Bamboo shoots have good cholesterol binding capabilities but I don't know if one small serving a day is enough. That's where the Karen Hurd approach comes in with multiple times a day small amounts of soluble fiber to get the bile less sludgy and full of estrogen. Coffee can also promote bile release as long as you don't recirculate it too much. But over time I think even coffee is not going to help a backed up liver, otherwise those who use coffee wouldn't need to use progesterone and thyroid.

I'm sorry to hear about your chronic migraines I know how awful pain it is I've been through some severe pain as well in my life. Binding bile seems to be the best way to solve it forever, lowers estrogen burden on the liver.

Thank you for explaining the insoluble fiber mechanisms so well. I am trying this and hope it works. My sister doesn’t really have a Crohn’s (maybe close to it) and psyllium has helped her.

 

[Nomane Euger]

@Stacy hi,when did your chronic migraines start,before you started"peating" or after?

 

[Karime22]

Cypro is a very strong anti-serotonin and it can help while you heal but be aware of your liver enzymes. Mine increased on just 0.5 mg a day for a yr. I think it backs up the liver so that you don't feel the effects of bile as badly. But that's also one cause of people needing to have their gallbladder taken out. It becomes so full of cholesterol stones and so inflamed that it doesn't work anymore. Good bile release and good fiber binding in the diet is essential for getting rid of estrogen. I think cypro made me more estrogenic even if it relieved my symptoms for a time. Bamboo shoots have good cholesterol binding capabilities but I don't know if one small serving a day is enough. That's where the Karen Hurd approach comes in with multiple times a day small amounts of soluble fiber to get the bile less sludgy and full of estrogen. Coffee can also promote bile release as long as you don't recirculate it too much. But over time I think even coffee is not going to help a backed up liver, otherwise those who use coffee wouldn't need to use progesterone and thyroid.

I'm sorry to hear about your chronic migraines I know how awful pain it is I've been through some severe pain as well in my life. Binding bile seems to be the best way to solve it forever, lowers estrogen burden on the liver.

@sugarbabe , what do you think of rhings like TUDCA, or even ox bile? I'm wondering if they can help by maybe thinning the bile, or potentially make things worse by adding even more bile to the situation.

 

[InChristAlone]

@sugarbabe , what do you think of rhings like TUDCA, or even ox bile? I'm wondering if they can help by maybe thinning the bile, or potentially make things worse by adding even more bile to the situation.

I think it can add to the bile problem depending on what's going on. I haven't figured out all the little details like that yet. Karen Hurd never had to use supplements and she healed her family of insecticide poisoning with psyllium and then beans. I think insecticide is far worse! So goes to show how amazing things start working when the liver becomes less toxic. I do need to find out what her recommendations are for someone with really sludgy bile that isn't flowing well (seems to be my case).

 

[shanny]

Thank you. No, no starch, I use the OJ and milk as my main source of carbs but I also do add white sugar to my milk and coffees to make up calories. I just feel better doing this while I work on gut health. I probably have about 6 cups of milk (with coffee added) and about 32 fl oz OJ but this is spread throughout the day. I eat every 2.5 -3 hrs. which I prefer to do or it feels that what I need at this time and I average around 2500 calories once I've added low fat cheese, sugar, gelatin powder and then when I add back in some more protein from meat, egg yolks. Obviously this may change as I continue healing but it's what feels good for me right now and doesn't feel restrictive I think getting enough calories is really important but I guess what foods are down to the individual and gut health in what you can tolerate.. Sometimes I might have some chocolate as well.

This is great! It's simple and it's working, that's all that matters. I agree, it's so individual AND you have to make sure you're getting sufficient calories. All of the things you're eating sound totally doable and you're getting plenty of nutrition. Personally, if I could live off of coffee with cream in it, I probably would!

Do you notice any issues with increasing fat? Like with the chocolate and the cheese, do you find that you tolerate fat ok?

 

[shanny]

I think it can add to the bile problem depending on what's going on. I haven't figured out all the little details like that yet. Karen Hurd never had to use supplements and she healed her family of insecticide poisoning with psyllium and then beans. I think insecticide is far worse! So goes to show how amazing things start working when the liver becomes less toxic. I do need to find out what her recommendations are for someone with really sludgy bile that isn't flowing well (seems to be my case).

I actually bought her package and listened to her lecture on the gallbladder/liver that's available on her website a few years ago. IIRC with gallstones/sludgy bile she recommends a few tablespoons of beans every few hours all day long. I believe the thought is that constantly having soluble fiber to bind any bile that's secreted will eventually clean out and remove the sludgy bile and then the liver will have to make more and as it makes new bile, there's something about the hydrogen ion concentration (more acidic I believe, but don't quote me) that actually helps to break down stone formations.

Just my 2c from being on this forum for a long time, and the experiences I've had when working with people, I think soluble fiber is very useful in removing toxins.....like poisons, heavy metals, etc. It's great to use therapeutically, but I don't think it's necessarily curing anything systemically. I also think depending on the condition of your microbiome, it could be really good or really bad! Like anything, proceed with caution.

Are you currently following her protocol? How is it going?

 

[shanny]

@sugarbabe , what do you think of rhings like TUDCA, or even ox bile? I'm wondering if they can help by maybe thinning the bile, or potentially make things worse by adding even more bile to the situation.

I'm not the biggest fan of supplements unless absolutely necessary, but I've seen TUDCA make some pretty significant changes in people that were slated for gallbladder removal! There's actually quite a bit of research in support of it, and there have been a few good threads on here about it. The other supplement people have had good luck with is taurine. If you search the forum, I'm sure you can get more specifics about dosages etc.