Estrogen Is Absolutely Critical For Men

[Lokzo]

 

[jb116]

@haidut
@anybody for that matter
what is this insanity?

"On this episode, Dr. Neal Rouzier shares more on the studies that show the benefits of estrogen in men. By blocking estrogen, the things you are trying to prevent are the things you end up causing. -Dr. Neal Rouzier
Three Takeaways When the aromatization of testosterone to estradiol is inhibited, body fat increases.
The “nocebo” effect: when you don’t have a side effect or problem till you read about it.
AIs cause significant decreases in sexual desire and orgasmic function, and increases in erectile dysfunction.
Estradiol administration without androgen blockade benefits BPA symptoms, size of the prostate, and prostate cancer. At the start of the show, we talked about how the inhibition of the aromatization of testosterone to estradiol increases body fat. Next we talked about how estradiol plays into visceral fat, insulin sensitivity, metabolic syndrome, and cardiovascular disease. We also talked about the role of estradiol in the treatment of prostate cancer. We also discussed: - AI and nipple sensitivity - The “nocebo” effect - Estradiol and orgasmic function Every study shows there are massive benefits if you raise estrogen, and no study has ever shown harm. Measuring estradiol is helpful in assessing the risks of sexual dysfunction, bone loss, or fat accumulation. Estrogen is actually the key to unlocking so many health functions for men, including cardiovascular health. There is a marked increase in intra-abdominal fat with aromatase inhibition. Ultimately it could lead to an increase in cardiovascular disease with long-term estrogen deficiency, which will cause even more harm down the line."

 

[tankasnowgod]

@haidut
@anybody for that matter
what is this insanity?

"On this episode, Dr. Neal Rouzier shares more on the studies that show the benefits of estrogen in men. By blocking estrogen, the things you are trying to prevent are the things you end up causing. -Dr. Neal Rouzier
Three Takeaways When the aromatization of testosterone to estradiol is inhibited, body fat increases.
The “nocebo” effect: when you don’t have a side effect or problem till you read about it.
AIs cause significant decreases in sexual desire and orgasmic function, and increases in erectile dysfunction.
Estradiol administration without androgen blockade benefits BPA symptoms, size of the prostate, and prostate cancer. At the start of the show, we talked about how the inhibition of the aromatization of testosterone to estradiol increases body fat. Next we talked about how estradiol plays into visceral fat, insulin sensitivity, metabolic syndrome, and cardiovascular disease. We also talked about the role of estradiol in the treatment of prostate cancer. We also discussed: - AI and nipple sensitivity - The “nocebo” effect - Estradiol and orgasmic function Every study shows there are massive benefits if you raise estrogen, and no study has ever shown harm. Measuring estradiol is helpful in assessing the risks of sexual dysfunction, bone loss, or fat accumulation. Estrogen is actually the key to unlocking so many health functions for men, including cardiovascular health. There is a marked increase in intra-abdominal fat with aromatase inhibition. Ultimately it could lead to an increase in cardiovascular disease with long-term estrogen deficiency, which will cause even more harm down the line."

This talk is insanely dubious. Here is the full text of one of the studies they talked about when they claim that inhibiting aromatase increases body fat in men-

Aromatase Inhibition Reduces Insulin Sensitivity in Healthy Men

What's the actual result from the study in regards to bodyfat?

"No significant differences in weight (82.2 ± 3.4 vs 81.8 ± 3.4 kg, P = .404), body mass index (25.9 ± 1.1 vs 25.7 ± 1.1 kg/m2, P = .445), or percentage body fat (16.4% ± 1.9% vs 16.4% ± 1.9%, P = .957) were observed between anastrozole and placebo treatment. "

They then DO take a quote from the study to make their claim-

"Sixteen weeks of aromatase inhibition therapy in men has been shown to increase body fat, particularly in the intraabdominal compartment, as assessed by sensitive computed tomography and dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry analysis"

But....... this was only a six week study. They conveniently left out the first part of the quote, which was talking about the actual results-

"No differences were observed in body composition as determined by body mass index, weight, or body fat percentage between placebo and anastrozole phases. This is not unexpected after only 6 weeks of therapy. Sixteen weeks of aromatase inhibition therapy in men has been shown to increase body fat, particularly in the intraabdominal compartment, as assessed by sensitive computed tomography and dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry analysis."

Freaking slimy, huh? THIS is the study the authors were referring to in reference to the "16 weeks" quote.

Gonadal steroids and body composition, strength, and sexual function in men. - PubMed - NCBI

Check out this out from the abstract-

"METHODS:
We provided 198 healthy men 20 to 50 years of age with goserelin acetate (to suppress endogenous testosterone and estradiol) and randomly assigned them to receive a placebo gel or 1.25 g, 2.5 g, 5 g, or 10 g of testosterone gel daily for 16 weeks. Another 202 healthy men received goserelin acetate, placebo gel or testosterone gel, and anastrozole (to suppress the conversion of testosterone to estradiol). Changes in the percentage of body fat and in lean mass were the primary outcomes. Subcutaneous- and intraabdominal-fat areas, thigh-muscle area and strength, and sexual function were also assessed."

Okay, so the source of their "claim" that inhibiting estrogen leads to bodyfat gain is a study where both Testosterone and Estradiol were suppressed, and then test replaced and some got AIs and some didn't. Far cry from even saying that a pharmaceutical AI, let alone inhibiting or reducing estrogen, somehow causes fat gain.

 

[jb116]

This talk is insanely dubious. Here is the full text of one of the studies they talked about when they claim that inhibiting aromatase increases body fat in men-

Aromatase Inhibition Reduces Insulin Sensitivity in Healthy Men

What's the actual result from the study in regards to bodyfat?

"No significant differences in weight (82.2 ± 3.4 vs 81.8 ± 3.4 kg, P = .404), body mass index (25.9 ± 1.1 vs 25.7 ± 1.1 kg/m2, P = .445), or percentage body fat (16.4% ± 1.9% vs 16.4% ± 1.9%, P = .957) were observed between anastrozole and placebo treatment. "

They then DO take a quote from the study to make their claim-

"Sixteen weeks of aromatase inhibition therapy in men has been shown to increase body fat, particularly in the intraabdominal compartment, as assessed by sensitive computed tomography and dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry analysis"

But....... this was only a six week study. They conveniently left out the first part of the quote, which was talking about the actual results-

"No differences were observed in body composition as determined by body mass index, weight, or body fat percentage between placebo and anastrozole phases. This is not unexpected after only 6 weeks of therapy. Sixteen weeks of aromatase inhibition therapy in men has been shown to increase body fat, particularly in the intraabdominal compartment, as assessed by sensitive computed tomography and dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry analysis."

Freaking slimy, huh? THIS is the study the authors were referring to in reference to the "16 weeks" quote.

Gonadal steroids and body composition, strength, and sexual function in men. - PubMed - NCBI

Check out this out from the abstract-

"METHODS:
We provided 198 healthy men 20 to 50 years of age with goserelin acetate (to suppress endogenous testosterone and estradiol) and randomly assigned them to receive a placebo gel or 1.25 g, 2.5 g, 5 g, or 10 g of testosterone gel daily for 16 weeks. Another 202 healthy men received goserelin acetate, placebo gel or testosterone gel, and anastrozole (to suppress the conversion of testosterone to estradiol). Changes in the percentage of body fat and in lean mass were the primary outcomes. Subcutaneous- and intraabdominal-fat areas, thigh-muscle area and strength, and sexual function were also assessed."

Okay, so the source of their "claim" that inhibiting estrogen leads to bodyfat gain is a study where both Testosterone and Estradiol were suppressed, and then test replaced and some got AIs and some didn't. Far cry from even saying that a pharmaceutical AI, let alone inhibiting or reducing estrogen, somehow causes fat gain.

Nice, thanks for looking those over! I just a got a chance to look too and go over the video. So between what you're pointing out and the fact he is confusing estrogen beta receptor with estradiol, this is really such trickery to keep the "good name" of estrogen alive. Dr. Peat has told me and also highlighted this point with the progesterone controversy in how the medical industry was able to say breast cancer can be "progesterone driven." It's using the terms for proteins that, again as Peat has always said, are really determined by the energy state and what binds to it consequently, not so much an "absolute receptor" for one particular thing. Even at that, the estrogen beta so-called receptor actually antagonizes estradiol lol. So basically everything he is stating, along with jumbling up the facts as you pointed out, is a case against estrogen not for it. Dr. Peat has said "If an anti-estrogen binds to something that can be called an estrogen receptor, then it won’t interfere with the estrogen mystique." Just amazing!

 

[RisingSun]

This talk is insanely dubious. Here is the full text of one of the studies they talked about when they claim that inhibiting aromatase increases body fat in men-

Aromatase Inhibition Reduces Insulin Sensitivity in Healthy Men

What's the actual result from the study in regards to bodyfat?

"No significant differences in weight (82.2 ± 3.4 vs 81.8 ± 3.4 kg, P = .404), body mass index (25.9 ± 1.1 vs 25.7 ± 1.1 kg/m2, P = .445), or percentage body fat (16.4% ± 1.9% vs 16.4% ± 1.9%, P = .957) were observed between anastrozole and placebo treatment. "

They then DO take a quote from the study to make their claim-

"Sixteen weeks of aromatase inhibition therapy in men has been shown to increase body fat, particularly in the intraabdominal compartment, as assessed by sensitive computed tomography and dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry analysis"

But....... this was only a six week study. They conveniently left out the first part of the quote, which was talking about the actual results-

"No differences were observed in body composition as determined by body mass index, weight, or body fat percentage between placebo and anastrozole phases. This is not unexpected after only 6 weeks of therapy. Sixteen weeks of aromatase inhibition therapy in men has been shown to increase body fat, particularly in the intraabdominal compartment, as assessed by sensitive computed tomography and dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry analysis."

Freaking slimy, huh? THIS is the study the authors were referring to in reference to the "16 weeks" quote.

Gonadal steroids and body composition, strength, and sexual function in men. - PubMed - NCBI

Check out this out from the abstract-

"METHODS:
We provided 198 healthy men 20 to 50 years of age with goserelin acetate (to suppress endogenous testosterone and estradiol) and randomly assigned them to receive a placebo gel or 1.25 g, 2.5 g, 5 g, or 10 g of testosterone gel daily for 16 weeks. Another 202 healthy men received goserelin acetate, placebo gel or testosterone gel, and anastrozole (to suppress the conversion of testosterone to estradiol). Changes in the percentage of body fat and in lean mass were the primary outcomes. Subcutaneous- and intraabdominal-fat areas, thigh-muscle area and strength, and sexual function were also assessed."

Okay, so the source of their "claim" that inhibiting estrogen leads to bodyfat gain is a study where both Testosterone and Estradiol were suppressed, and then test replaced and some got AIs and some didn't. Far cry from even saying that a pharmaceutical AI, let alone inhibiting or reducing estrogen, somehow causes fat gain.

And that’s using Anastrozole

Results would be totally different with a steroidal aromatase inhibitor like Exemestane, as it has androgenic properties

 

[opethfeldt]

In my experience, it's next to impossible to keep estrogen deficient for any extended period of time. I think this is not something most of us have to worry about unless body fat is very low or you have a genetic aromatase deficiency.

 

[haidut]

@haidut
@anybody for that matter
what is this insanity?

"On this episode, Dr. Neal Rouzier shares more on the studies that show the benefits of estrogen in men. By blocking estrogen, the things you are trying to prevent are the things you end up causing. -Dr. Neal Rouzier
Three Takeaways When the aromatization of testosterone to estradiol is inhibited, body fat increases.
The “nocebo” effect: when you don’t have a side effect or problem till you read about it.
AIs cause significant decreases in sexual desire and orgasmic function, and increases in erectile dysfunction.
Estradiol administration without androgen blockade benefits BPA symptoms, size of the prostate, and prostate cancer. At the start of the show, we talked about how the inhibition of the aromatization of testosterone to estradiol increases body fat. Next we talked about how estradiol plays into visceral fat, insulin sensitivity, metabolic syndrome, and cardiovascular disease. We also talked about the role of estradiol in the treatment of prostate cancer. We also discussed: - AI and nipple sensitivity - The “nocebo” effect - Estradiol and orgasmic function Every study shows there are massive benefits if you raise estrogen, and no study has ever shown harm. Measuring estradiol is helpful in assessing the risks of sexual dysfunction, bone loss, or fat accumulation. Estrogen is actually the key to unlocking so many health functions for men, including cardiovascular health. There is a marked increase in intra-abdominal fat with aromatase inhibition. Ultimately it could lead to an increase in cardiovascular disease with long-term estrogen deficiency, which will cause even more harm down the line."

Most of the claims are the same old ones that are used to push estrogen on women as HRT. The WHI study debunked all of those claims, especially the ones related to heart and brain health. I will address their main claim - that when aromatization is inhibited, body fat increases. The study below begs to disagree, strongly. Taking nothing but an aromatase inhibitor made the people in the study below both gain muscle AND lose fat.
Exemestane makes you slimmer and more muscular

This coming week I will also post a study that shows estrogen is NOT needed for muscle growth, and in fact muscles grow slightly faster when aromatase is inhibited. Very much in line with the study above.

@Lokzo

 

[Lokzo]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0018506X18304240?via=ihub



Highlights


•
Hippocampal aromatase inhibition impairs memory in gonadectomized, not intact, males.

•
Hippocampal androgen receptor (AR) antagonism impairs object memory in intact males.

•
Subthreshold inhibition of ARs and aromatase impairs object memory in intact males.

•
Hippocampal estradiol synthesis and androgen receptors regulate memory in male mice.

 

[lvysaur]

 

[lampofred]

He has another video praising arachidonic acid supplementation. It's scary how so many people seem to be so misguided. I'm not trying to criticize him, but I feel bad for him because the way he keeps fidgeting and strangely laughing shows he has health issues, but supplementing arachidonic acid and raising estrogen certainly aren't going to help.

 

[boxers]

While using trt im not sure if i should block estogen anymor and just let it naturally convert to get the benefits of estrogen

 

[boxers]

Most of the claims are the same old ones that are used to push estrogen on women as HRT. The WHI study debunked all of those claims, especially the ones related to heart and brain health. I will address their main claim - that when aromatization is inhibited, body fat increases. The study below begs to disagree, strongly. Taking nothing but an aromatase inhibitor made the people in the study below both gain muscle AND lose fat.
Exemestane makes you slimmer and more muscular

This coming week I will also post a study that shows estrogen is NOT needed for muscle growth, and in fact muscles grow slightly faster when aromatase is inhibited. Very much in line with the study above.

@Lokzo

What about bone health and lipids

 

[chrismturner89]

While i switched the video off pretty swiftly, driving estrogen too low in men can have detrimental results. I naturally have low estrogen (i cannot for the life of me.gain weight on my legs or arse. I barely have an arse). And when i do too many things that keep estrogen suppressed--a lot of saturated fat, cheese, milk, sugar, nicotine, beef, creatine etc--i get joint pain, loss of muscle mass, poor libido and erection, slight anxiety, low strength. If i have some kind of PUFA food, even if it is bacon or pork, these symptoms reduce. I train for climbing 4-5 times a week so i am very sensitive to noticing how i feel strength and energy wise. Im not pro PUFA at all, ive had first hand experience of its detrimental effects. However, too low estrogen relative to T doesnt seem like a good thing. One thing that helps me is green olives/olive oil. I think the MUFA raises my sgbt so it keeps things in check and from becoming too imbalanced. Maybe getting some kind of mild natural phytoestrogen is the key to balance? Anyone know of any?

 

[Nighteyes]

While i switched the video off pretty swiftly, driving estrogen too low in men can have detrimental results. I naturally have low estrogen (i cannot for the life of me.gain weight on my legs or arse. I barely have an arse). And when i do too many things that keep estrogen suppressed--a lot of saturated fat, cheese, milk, sugar, nicotine, beef, creatine etc--i get joint pain, loss of muscle mass, poor libido and erection, slight anxiety, low strength. If i have some kind of PUFA food, even if it is bacon or pork, these symptoms reduce. I train for climbing 4-5 times a week so i am very sensitive to noticing how i feel strength and energy wise. Im not pro PUFA at all, ive had first hand experience of its detrimental effects. However, too low estrogen relative to T doesnt seem like a good thing. One thing that helps me is green olives/olive oil. I think the MUFA raises my sgbt so it keeps things in check and from becoming too imbalanced. Maybe getting some kind of mild natural phytoestrogen is the key to balance? Anyone know of any?

Funny timing as I have been experimenting with exactly that. Incorporating some mild estrogenic foods into my diet to help raise estrogen activity slightly. I have low estrogen and have dry skin, joint problems and my libido always goes really low whenever my estrogen goes too low. I use brown rice crackers and they work to stimulate estrogen slightly. They raise my mood/emotions that are otherwise kind of low. So does half a glass of beer. I am still not sure if this is the right approach and think that maybe copper and other metals/minerals are involved and should be the main focus. For now, mild estrogenic stuff helps as a bandaid.
I have high iron as well on blood test and gbolduev has talked about testosterone increasing iron retention. Maybe too low aromatization going on for some reason? Or maybe the high iron doesnt allow copper to work properly and thus estrogen not working. Just thinking out loud. How is your iron?

 

[chrismturner89]

Funny timing as I have been experimenting with exactly that. Incorporating some mild estrogenic foods into my diet to help raise estrogen activity slightly. I have low estrogen and have dry skin, joint problems and my libido always goes really low whenever my estrogen goes too low. I use brown rice crackers and they work to stimulate estrogen slightly. They raise my mood/emotions that are otherwise kind of low. So does half a glass of beer. I am still not sure if this is the right approach and think that maybe copper and other metals/minerals are involved and should be the main focus. For now, mild estrogenic stuff helps as a bandaid.
I have high iron as well on blood test and gbolduev has talked about testosterone increasing iron retention. Maybe too low aromatization going on for some reason? Or maybe the high iron doesnt allow copper to work properly and thus estrogen not working. Just thinking out loud. How is your iron?

Interesting you say that about copper. If i hit the zinc high foods for a couple of days running i end up with low copper symptoms. I also do very well on beer. I didnt know that T increases iron retention. My iron is normal but i have given blood twice in the last year. When my estrogen appears very low my hair becomes very greasy and i get a flare up of scalp dermatitis. Perhaps because the high T is increasing iron and therefore feeding bacteria. I might try some kind of legume for its estrogenic properties. It would be good to have some kind of stable balance instead of frequent up and downs.

 

[Rand56]

Let's increase the fun and have some more heads explode on here....

 

[boxers]

Im currently using aromsin, maybe i should quit

 

[Rand56]

Im currently using aromsin, maybe i should quit

I realize these TRT doctors in these video's are mainly referring to anastrazole. but I recently trialed exemastane and it didn't take me long to stop taking that sh**. Bones hurt and I felt like sh**, and I wasn't taking a big dose either.

 

[sladerunner69]

While i switched the video off pretty swiftly, driving estrogen too low in men can have detrimental results. I naturally have low estrogen (i cannot for the life of me.gain weight on my legs or arse. I barely have an arse). And when i do too many things that keep estrogen suppressed--a lot of saturated fat, cheese, milk, sugar, nicotine, beef, creatine etc--i get joint pain, loss of muscle mass, poor libido and erection, slight anxiety, low strength. If i have some kind of PUFA food, even if it is bacon or pork, these symptoms reduce. I train for climbing 4-5 times a week so i am very sensitive to noticing how i feel strength and energy wise. Im not pro PUFA at all, ive had first hand experience of its detrimental effects. However, too low estrogen relative to T doesnt seem like a good thing. One thing that helps me is green olives/olive oil. I think the MUFA raises my sgbt so it keeps things in check and from becoming too imbalanced. Maybe getting some kind of mild natural phytoestrogen is the key to balance? Anyone know of any?

Yes I get the same symptoms when my estrogen is too low. Joint pain, lethargy, low mood, and LOW libido. These symptoms are at their worst when I peat perfectly and take vitamin E + aspirin. If I drink a couple of beers I get better libido. When I drink 5 beers I go back to no libido. I think balance is key, and that balance should be on the lower end. Ive seen researchers claim that estrogen signals opioid receptors, so that could be the cause of the increased nerve and joint pains. So Ive been trying to keep estrogen low, but not too low.

I think that avoiding pufa on its own is very effective at reducing estrogen. When you begin adding in additional things like aspirin vitamin E, eating tons of fruit and sugars and drinking a lot of milk and not consuming any starch, all of those things probably cumulate in a situation where your estradiol levels are next to nonexistent, and then we begin experiencing these problems.

 

[Momado965]

Did ray peat address the low estrogen issue? Perhaps progesterone?