"Estrogen Dominance": How To Evaluate It?

[gilson dantas]

Dear friends,
I have been practicing the Peat guidelines on nutrition at the same time I also carry on the treatment of my prostate tumor with purely "peatians" methods, I mean with progesterone, pregnenolone and thyroid as basic measures. [Also aspirine, B3, coconut oil, raw carrot etc]

I will use 40 mg of progesterone in 4 times for day [2 rectal; 2 transdermal on testicular bag;]

I will monitor both clinically and by blood tests [prolactine, progesterone etc].

But I have a doubt [that perhaps can be very simple to most of you] = how to assess if the “estrogen dominance” is increasing or decreasing through laboratory tests?

If I am not mistaken, R Peat says somewhere that in a healthy state, progesterone should be 50 to 100 times higher than the estrogen [ picograms to pictograms, I suppose];

But write here I have two questions:

1 - which estrogen should be compared with progesterone? estrone?

2 – using that dose of progesterone I will have or not expulsion of estrogen from the cells to the bloodstream? In that case I will not have an "increase" of estrogenic dominance? And then how to evaluate the “estrogen dominance” actually? In numbers?

 

[meatbag]

You could try prolactin blood test which has a .89 (1.00 being perfect) correspondence with tissue estrogenic activity. I think Haidut posted the study on the forum. Like you said serum estrogen isn't indicative of tissue estrogen. I think for a male the prolactin should be like 4 or lower and if that's the case it's kind of doubtful estrogen is an issue.

 

[gilson dantas]

Very good Meatbag; it makes sense; thanks for the attention!

 

[Area-1255]

Well here's a good symptom chart I laid out. Area-1255: How to Differentiate between High E2 (Estrogen) Levels and Low E2 Levels

 

[mangoes]

@Meatbag So if serum estrogen is low and prolactin is 4.8, would that point to actual low estrogen in tissues as well as serum?

 

[meatbag]

@Meatbag So if serum estrogen is low and prolactin is 4.8, would that point to actual low estrogen in tissues as well as serum?

I'm no expert by any means but that seems like a decent prolactin from what i've seen Ray say and Haidut & Danny Roddy post. I'm not sure what issues you're dealing with but here's a good insight into Peat's views on prolactin in the hairloss KMUD interview:
KMUD: Hair Loss, Inflammation and Osteoporosis (2012)

"HD: Why do men develop male pattern baldness? And is it due to testosterone?

RP: I think the belief in testosterone as the cause is similar to the old belief that males got prostate cancer because of having testosterone — since males get a particular kind of baldness, it's easy to blame it on testosterone, but in fact there is no evidence showing that excess testosterone is responsible for it, anymore than excess testosterone causes prostate cancer. So that's where the idea of increased sensitivity came in, because there was no evidence of too much of the hormone...

HD: Right, but you did say that when they measured the blood levels of men with lots of hair and men with no hair at all on their head, the levels of testosterone were not important, so the best they could come up with was that their cells had a sensitivity to testosterone.

RP: Yeah, that sort of fills in for their lack of evidence. But when you look at the actual hormone situation of people with lots of hair on their head and with not much, what you see is an excess of prolactin and cortisol in the people losing their hair, both men and women. When you look at the effect of testosterone on the growth of the hair shaft, the higher testosterone makes it grow thicker and faster. And prolactin tends to cause it to fall out. In chickens and other birds it's known as the molting hormone. In humans, it's a milk-producing hormone, largely, but it also regulates practically every other cell in the body, and it has that analogous function of terminating the growth cycle of the hair shaft. And cortisol and prolactin both rise during stress. For a long time, people have been noticing the association of baldness with heart disease and also with a crease in the earlobe. Both of those have been challenged repeatedly, but there is clear evidence that they are associated. What links those is also connected to prolactin and high cortisol, which is the low energy production, a thyroid deficiency tendency, letting the metabolism of cholesterol go down more towards increased cortisol and less towards progesterone and testosterone, and the DHEA; things that do promote hair growth.

HD: So if men who were suffering from baldness were to have their prolactin blood levels checked, do you think these levels would be higher than normal?

RP: It for sure wouldn’t be likely to be higher than normal, on the current lab standards for normal, because they've increased the upper edge, probably because of so much exposure of the population to estrogens. Estrogen increases the production of prolactin. And estrogen itself terminates the growth of hair, so...

HD: But didn't you say that when they did actual studies for prolactin, or pituitary tumors in which prolactin was elevated, they found like an ideal range for a female and a male? Maybe we can discuss those?

RP: Yes; back in the 70s, after the wave of pituitary tumors resulting from the high estrogen birth control pills, they found that the healthy range for women, on the standard scale of unit, was around 12, somewhere, maybe as high as 15. And for men, it was around 4 to 7. And now, they have raised the upper limit for men to, sometimes they say it's as high as 20, and for women as high as 30. But bald men I’ve talked to who had close to 20, even though they were said to be normal. They all had developing breasts (gynecomastia).

HD: If they had 20, it might have been within the normal range that that laboratory stated, but if they were developing breasts, then they obviously have far too much prolactin for a man to have.

RP: Yes. And fertility is best when a man has 4 to 7.

HD: To go back to developing breasts, the term is gynecomastia, correct? For drinkers of hoppy beer (beer that has an extreme infusion of hops), gynecomastia isn't an uncommon sight?

RP: It's not only the phytoestrogens from the hops, but the yeast that all of the alcoholic drinks require. The yeast, produces estradiol, the powerful human hormone, as their own reproductive hormone."

 

[mangoes]

Thanks a lot @Meatbag. It's confusing because I show signs of estrogen dominance, particularly the things talked about in that interview.

But the prolactin result was from a pretty long time ago, I just got my blood drawn today for another prolactin test. I guess if it's the same, a 24hr cortisol will be the next thing on the list

 

[paymanz]

Well here's a good symptom chart I laid out. Area-1255: How to Differentiate between High E2 (Estrogen) Levels and Low E2 Levels

Area i have been reading your article about estrogen and serotonin connection,somewhere you mentioned some men born with no estrogen...is there a rwference for that?

 

[gilson dantas]

Thanks @Meatbag!!

 

[Area-1255]

Area i have been reading your articlw about estrogwn and serotonin connection,somewhere you mentioned some men born with no estrogen...is there a rwference for that?

Yes it's called "Congenital Aromatase Deficiency".

 

[Area-1255]

Aromatase Deficiency, a Rare Syndrome: Case Report
Aromatase and estrogen receptor α deficiency. - PubMed - NCBI
Aromatase deficiency in a Chinese adult man caused by novel compound heterozygous CYP19A1 mutations: effects of estrogen replacement therapy on the... - PubMed - NCBI

 

[paymanz]

@Area-1255 Thank you