Estrogen dominance / estradiol -- need advice

[staytuned]

Anyone have any experience w/high estradiol or estrogen dominance? Can't find much on forums or on ray peat search... seems to be genetic on my dad's side, not sure how to counteract.

My free testosterone levels tested normal and my thyroid levels are all "normal" range except for my T-uptake is 36 (normal range is 24-36) and my TSH is 1.75. Overall pretty healthy young male but definitely experiencing some estrogen dominance and even had gynecomastia (surgery) as did my uncle for breast tissue when younger. Would love to find a way to balance my hormones beyond the thyroid stuff I am doing (1/4 tab cynoplus per day) and any help is welcome!

 

[unexamined_whimsy]

So-called normal values for hormones are often very different to what may be considered optimal. It's quite common to see reasonable free-T values with otherwise low total-T and very low SHBG. One needs to see your blood work as a whole to make a proper assessment. Please post all your lab numbers with the appropriate reference ranges.

Without knowing your exact predicament I would be be wary of supplementing thyroid as it can worsen estrogen dominance especially in men. Please see the threads that I have participated in recently to inform yourself of the various opinions on this issue.

 

[staytuned]

So-called normal values for hormones are often very different to what may be considered optimal. It's quite common to see reasonable free-T values with otherwise low total-T and very low SHBG. One needs to see your blood work as a whole to make a proper assessment. Please post all your lab numbers with the appropriate reference ranges.

Without knowing your exact predicament I would be be wary of supplementing thyroid as it can worsen estrogen dominance especially in men. Please see the threads that I have participated in recently to inform yourself of the various opinions on this issue.

I uploaded my blood labs, all ranges and history is in there. Resting heartrate usually around 60 bpm and temp around 96.8, been those values most of my life. Thanks for helping!

 

[unexamined_whimsy]

Most of your numbers are unremarkable (in a good way). However, it's hard to make an assessment of your T-axis since all I found was TT (that too from '11), without SHBG and estrogen. Since you have estrogen dominance/previous gynecomastia, a comprehensive measurement of your T-axis would not be amiss -- SHBG, TT, fT, estradiol, estrone, prolactin, DHT, progesterone, bio-T (direct), LH, FSH. Pending them, how is your skin quality, libido and body hair growth?

Functionally, you seem far more hypothyroid than your lab numbers suggest. Your total T3 could be higher but estrogen often interferes with one's thyroid numbers. If you're relatively young (and nutritionally replete) there is a reasonable chance that thyroid may all be you need to normalize your hormones. Nevertheless, keep the caveat about increased estrogens due to excess thyroid in mind.

For controlling estrogen, have you experimented with zinc? You could also consider progesterone (transdermally) in incremental amounts till you notice your libido diminishing. Lastly, there's topical DHT gel if your symptoms are refractory to the last two.

 

[staytuned]

Most of your numbers are unremarkable (in a good way). However, it's hard to make an assessment of your T-axis since all I found was TT (that too from '11), without SHBG and estrogen. Since you have estrogen dominance/previous gynecomastia, a comprehensive measurement of your T-axis would not be amiss -- SHBG, TT, fT, estradiol, estrone, prolactin, DHT, progesterone, bio-T (direct), LH, FSH. Pending them, how is your skin quality, libido and body hair growth?

Functionally, you seem far more hypothyroid than your lab numbers suggest. Your total T3 could be higher but estrogen often interferes with one's thyroid numbers. If you're relatively young (and nutritionally replete) there is a reasonable chance that thyroid may all be you need to normalize your hormones. Nevertheless, keep the caveat about increased estrogens due to excess thyroid in mind.

For controlling estrogen, have you experimented with zinc? You could also consider progesterone (transdermally) in incremental amounts till you notice your libido diminishing. Lastly, there's topical DHT gel if your symptoms are refractory to the last two.

Good call on the t-axis, haven't had those labs done and they were next on my list. My skin is fine(no acne), a bit dry and seb derm on my scalp is pretty well managed. Libido is up and down in multi-week cycles... no rhyme or reason but sometimes high and other times very low. Don't have much body hair except arms/legs -- none of the men in my father's side of the family have much chest hair, if any. The hair on my scalp is thinning/receding, although still relatively full.

I was curious about progesterone and pregnenolone but wasn't sure of differences and didn't want to just start tinkering w/my hormones. Again, not sure of impact of DHT gel; would these 3 supplements be tested individually in any specific order pending results of a t-axis panel?

I've taken zinc off and on (was taking ZMA at night for quite awhile) and am now trying to get it from canned oysters. I'm young 30's and been a pretty healthy eater... the 1/4 tab of cynoplus i've been taking doesn't seem to make a huge difference w/my hormones. I sometimes get a rapid heartbeat shortly after taking it which is not too pleasant, but rarely lasts more than a few minutes. Since adopting a more ray peat diet about 2.5 months ago I've put on 10 lbs and about 5% bodyfat, although that has come w/some muscle gain as well.

 

[unexamined_whimsy]

Pregnenolone, progesterone followed by DHT is perhaps the order in decreasing putative benignity.

Pregnenolone is indicated when the conversion of cholesterol is compromised, such as in hypothyroidism, or when the cholesterol level is low (in the absence of supplemental thyroid), such as in liver disease. Willy nilly though it can just as easily elevate estrogens if you're prone to it, in other words, if your metabolic rate is low. There is one study (in schizophrenics) showing that it raises the level of progesterone significantly.

Unlike pregnenolone, progesterone is an honest estrogen antagonist; it is extraordinarily safe and usually effective, but being a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor it dramatically lowers DHT, the most potent androgen, unless you titrate the dose very slowly. In men therefore it can quickly lead to a comically flaccid member that persists for a few weeks after therapy.

DHT gel, although inhibitory to the HPTA axis in excess, is probably the best antagonist of estrogen there is for men. There are numerous studies showing its efficacy for getting rid of even established gynecomastia, obviating the need for surgery. Androgens, in general, and in particular DHT, also increase thyroid function by reducing estrogen and lowering thyroid binding globulin (TBG), besides lowering prolactin. Depending on where you live, however, its application remains theoretical since the availability of DHT gel preparations remains scarce at best.

I love oysters, yet I always found straight zinc supplementation to be much more effective at quelling estrogen. There is some concern that high estrogen favors the absorption of copper over zinc.

For thyroid to work, one needs to be nutritionally replete (there are too many cofactors that can be limiting), that is often precluded when one is estrogen dominant for a while. Second, one needs to be patient and increment ones dosage very slowly for the body to gradually adjust reduce the stress hormones. I'm afraid it will boil down to some careful self experimentation.