EstroBan - Liquid Vitamin (K, A, D, E) Mix

[haidut]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

More on Vit K1 vs MK-4 vs MK-7
http://wholefoodsmagazine.com/columns/v ... rve-functi

Thanks, good info. Btw, it is the Dutch cheese industry which has been sponsoring most of the studies with MK-7, so take the article with a bit of grain of salt given it describes that Dutch cheese-sponsored research I am referring to.
Here is another thread discussing the K1 vs. MK-4 vs. MK-7:

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/25 ... rsus-mk-7/

If you read the whole thing, most people lean towards MK-4 as there are several studies showing certain proteins responsible for arterial decalcification are activated only by MK-4 and not by any of the other forms.
But all K vitamins seems to have beneficial effects except MK-3. So, maybe the LEF brand containing the 3 types is a good compromise.

 

[SAFarmer]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

But all K vitamins seems to have beneficial effects except MK-3. So, maybe the LEF brand containing the 3 types is a good compromise.

That's my point. I'd rather cover all my bases with all 3 in a single supplement, don't you think ?
You think you could incorporate all 3 into your product ? Maybe less of Mk-4 and add a bit Mk-7 and K1 ?

 

[Filip1993]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

@Haidut Have you ever considered making separate fat soluble vitamin supplements? I get enough A from liver so I really don't need to supplement it but would like to use some K, D and E on a daily basis.

I have thought about that but there are tons of supplements on the market with isolated vitamins and there is no point competing with them. There is no combination of the 4 fat-soluble vitamins as far as I know.

Okey I understand. Is it possible to order Estroban if you live in Europe?

 

[haidut]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

But all K vitamins seems to have beneficial effects except MK-3. So, maybe the LEF brand containing the 3 types is a good compromise.

That's my point. I'd rather cover all my bases with all 3 in a single supplement, don't you think ?
You think you could incorporate all 3 into your product ? Maybe less of Mk-4 and add a bit Mk-7 and K1 ?

If I can find a god source of liquid K1 and MK-7 I will certainly consider adding them. I'll do some searching around.

 

[haidut]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

@Haidut Have you ever considered making separate fat soluble vitamin supplements? I get enough A from liver so I really don't need to supplement it but would like to use some K, D and E on a daily basis.

I have thought about that but there are tons of supplements on the market with isolated vitamins and there is no point competing with them. There is no combination of the 4 fat-soluble vitamins as far as I know.

Okey I understand. Is it possible to order Estroban if you live in Europe?

Yes, you can order from anywhere in the world. Several people from Europe have ordered and have had it delivered. Use the second link appearing in my signature after every post. It is a PayPal link.

 

[SAFarmer]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

If I can find a god source of liquid K1 and MK-7 I will certainly consider adding them. I'll do some searching around.

Great, let us know soonest please. I have about 1 month's supply left, but would like to order a bit earlier to allow for shipment time international.

Thanks

 

[Such_Saturation]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D, E

How about a high (fifteen to thirty milligrams) K2 version? For example people with osteoporosis wouldn't mind the high cost and would appreciate the purity and single source.

 

[johns74]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

But all K vitamins seems to have beneficial effects except MK-3. So, maybe the LEF brand containing the 3 types is a good compromise.

That's my point. I'd rather cover all my bases with all 3 in a single supplement, don't you think ?
You think you could incorporate all 3 into your product ? Maybe less of Mk-4 and add a bit Mk-7 and K1 ?

If I can find a god source of liquid K1 and MK-7 I will certainly consider adding them. I'll do some searching around.

Pretty sure you'll lose some customers if you add MK7, though I guess you could do two versions. Where are the safety studies about MK7? Has there been studies of people taking the equivalent in MK7 to 135 mg of MK4 daily for a year, without serious side effects?

Where is the evidence that you need all different forms of vitamin K2? Doesn't the body convert other forms to MK4? Why not stay with something that has been proven safe and effective?

You can't even consume MK7 in the Peat recommended amounts. He advises milligrams of vitamin K when you take aspirin, but MK7 is sold in micrograms. Is there evidence that it's safe to take MK7 in milligram amounts?

 

[Such_Saturation]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

But all K vitamins seems to have beneficial effects except MK-3. So, maybe the LEF brand containing the 3 types is a good compromise.

That's my point. I'd rather cover all my bases with all 3 in a single supplement, don't you think ?
You think you could incorporate all 3 into your product ? Maybe less of Mk-4 and add a bit Mk-7 and K1 ?

If I can find a god source of liquid K1 and MK-7 I will certainly consider adding them. I'll do some searching around.

Pretty sure you'll lose some customers if you add MK7, though I guess you could do two versions. Where are the safety studies about MK7? Has there been studies of people taking the equivalent in MK7 to 135 mg of MK4 daily for a year, without serious side effects?

Where is the evidence that you need all different forms of vitamin K2? Doesn't the body convert other forms to MK4? Why not stay with something that has been proven safe and effective?

You can't even consume MK7 in the Peat recommended amounts. He advises milligrams of vitamin K when you take aspirin, but MK7 is sold in micrograms. Is there evidence that it's safe to take MK7 in milligram amounts?

Good thoughts!

 

[BingDing]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D, E

Is Thorne liquid K2 equivalent to what haidut uses? It is MK4 or menatetrenone, has only MCT and mixed tocopherols. I want to try higher doses, though I like the basic mix of what he sells. (I've never quite gotten a handle on vitamin K issues)

 

[Brian]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D, E

Haidut, is there any reason why you prefer retinyl acetate instead of palmitate for your supplement?

 

[haidut]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D, E

Is Thorne liquid K2 equivalent to what haidut uses? It is MK4 or menatetrenone, has only MCT and mixed tocopherols. I want to try higher doses, though I like the basic mix of what he sells. (I've never quite gotten a handle on vitamin K issues)

Both Thorne and my supplement use MK-4, so they should be equivalent in equal dosages.

 

[haidut]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D, E

Haidut, is there any reason why you prefer retinyl acetate instead of palmitate for your supplement?

Yes, I prefer to use retinyl acetate as most of the cancer prevention and treatment studies used that substance. If you go to the Wikipedia page and the NIH page below you will see that it explicitly mentions that retinyl acetate may have anti-cancer effects, while it does not say that about retinyl palmitate. Of course, it could just be due to the lack of studies with retinyl palmitate but until I see studies about their equivalence I prefer to use what has been shown to work Unfortunately, sometimes pure retinyl acetate is not available from the supplier so we have to use a 50/50 mix but that should still have an effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retinyl_acetate

"...Retinyl acetate (retinol acetate, vitamin A acetate) is a natural form of vitamin A which is the acetate ester of retinol. It has potential antineoplastic and chemopreventive activities."

http://www.cancer.gov/drugdictionary?cdrid=40313

"...A naturally-occurring fatty acid ester form of retinol (vitamin A) with potential antineoplastic and chemopreventive activities. Retinyl acetate binds to and activates retinoid receptors, inducing cell differentiation and decreasing cell proliferation. This agent also inhibits carcinogen-induced neoplastic transformation in some cancer cell types and exhibits immunomodulatory properties.

 

[johns74]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D, E

Both Thorne and my supplement use MK-4, so they should be equivalent in equal dosages.

Is the one in your supplement also created by fermentation? If so, then I guess they would be really similar.

 

[haidut]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D, E

Both Thorne and my supplement use MK-4, so they should be equivalent in equal dosages.

Is the one in your supplement also created by fermentation? If so, then I guess they would be really similar.

Not sure about that, but I will ask. Our supplier says it is synthetically produced, so I don't think it is sourced from tobacco like most others. I think the tobacco sourced MK-4 is obtained through fermentation but I may be wrong on that one.

 

[haidut]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D, E

Several people have asked about using EstroBan in conjunction with SolBan as a sunscreen. I just want to point out that while EstroBan may help with sunburn, it is not intended for large area application as you may end up getting a large dose of the fat-soluble vitamins in your bloodstream. What EstroBan may help with and augment SolBan's action is if you have an area of skin damage caused by the sun and inside that area you have spots / blemishes. If that's the case, a good use would be to spray the larger area generously with SolBan and after it dries out to apply several drops of EstroBan on the spots / blemishes. This way you are treating both the direct issue and the larger surrounding area, which is what Peat recommends.
Again, please do not apply a full bottle of EstroBan to your face or other body area with the goal of preventing sun burn or other damage. Use SolBan for that and EstroBan on small, targeted areas.

 

[dd99]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D, E

I've read that vitamin E is considered one of the most important prenatal supplements. But are A, D and K2 also safe if taken in the right ratios?

For the last conception and pregnancy, my wife took fermented cod liver oil and butter oil every day for A and K2, and supplemented D, E, folate, zinc and the other Bs. But now I would never give her the cod liver oil, so is the A safe, if in the right ratio to D? And is K2 safe, too?

 

[haidut]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D, E

I've read that vitamin E is considered one of the most important prenatal supplements. But are A, D and K2 also safe if taken in the right ratios?

For the last conception and pregnancy, my wife took fermented cod liver oil and butter oil every day for A and K2, and supplemented D, E, folate, zinc and the other Bs. But now I would never give her the cod liver oil, so is the A safe, if in the right ratio to D? And is K2 safe, too?

For a pregnant person I think one should consult with the doctor. Way too many things can go wrong here. EstroBan provides doses relatively close to the RDA for the vitamins E, A, and D and in ratios officially published as beneficial. So it should be pretty safe as a source of those vitamins. Vitamin K in EstroBan is pretty high as per the RDA but much higher doses have been tested for years with no serious side effects. I would ask the doctor if the specific dosages in EstroBan seem safe and "right" for a pregnant person. But whatever the doctor says, please stay away from cod liver oil. Even synthetic vitamin A is often safer.

 

[dd99]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D, E

Thanks, haidut. Doctors here generally say to avoid vitamin A entirely during pregnancy. Maybe I'll just up her once weekly liver and leave it at that (her body will tell her if she needs more) and supp E and D and small amount of K.

 

[haidut]

Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D, E

Thanks, haidut. Doctors here generally say to avoid vitamin A entirely during pregnancy. Maybe I'll just up her once weekly liver and leave it at that (her body will tell her if she needs more) and supp E and D and small amount of K.

Have you had her vitamin A tested? The studies I have seen claim that blood levels of vitamin A correlate quite well with tissue levels. This would give you some info on what amount may be safe. I guess you could watch for things like dermatitis and eczemas but those could be caused by other things like vitamin B6 or zinc deficiencies.