Home > Merchants > Merchant Forums > IdeaLabs > EstroBan - Dietary Supplement With Vitamins K2, A, D, E

EstroBan - Dietary Supplement With Vitamins K2, A, D, E

  1. Through my business connections I realized that I could get access to lower cost, high purity bulk quantities of the fat soluble vitamins K (MK-4, menatetrenone), vitamin E (mixed tocopherols, high gamma), vitamin A (as palmitate and/or acetate), and vitamin D. Since these are accessible only if you have a company and have signed a distribution agreement, most people on the forum will not be able to order directly in bulk. However, I have been doing my own home-made supplement with all 4 of these vitamins in a solution of organic olive oil and refined coconut oil, and was thinking of maybe extending that to the rest of the forum members. The supplement would have the following profile:

    *****************************************
    Serving size - 8 drops
    Servings per container - 30
    Each serving contains:

    Vitamin A - 5,000 IU
    Vitamin D - 2,000 IU
    Vitamin E - 65mg (100 IU)
    Vitamin K2 (MK-4) - 2mg

    Other ingredients: organic MCT oil
    ******************************************

    Would there be interest if I send some free samples to members of the forum to try? If the supplement passes all tests (both by members of the forum and I get a legitimate Certificate of Analysis), would there be interest in buying it?
    I would sell it a cost, just like Ray is selling his Progest-E. I don't plan on striking it rich selling supplements. My day business (IT consulting) is what would be paying the bills. So, please take the poll if you are interested. This will allow me to decide if it's worth starting the manufacturing process.
    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I would definitely try them. Being able to get a cheaper source but still with quality helps out a lot :)
     
  3. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D


    Thanks Charlie!
    Let's see how many other forum members would be interested and I will get some dropper bottles and ask a lab to prepare some free samples. I am thinking of having each daily dose (I guess it would take about 5 drops) supply 1000 IU of vitamin D3, 5000 IU of vitamin A, 1mg of K2 (menatetrenone) and 200 IU of mixed tocopherols. Obviously, people that want higher dosage would take multiple doses, but based on the studies I've seen and what people have hear from Ray I think this is a good starting ratio. Maybe after people use the free samples we can get some feedback and see if there is a need for increase/decrease of each vitamin.
     
  4. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I would definitely be interested.
     
  5. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Count me in!
     
  6. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I would be interested as well!

    Would you consider adding enough profit to make up for your trouble? I imagine there could be enough demand in the Peat-world that you wouldn't want to be handling hundreds of shipments out of kindness...though maybe you're a nicer person than me :lol:

    Or maybe you're thinking of keeping it very limited/quiet?
     
  7. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    What's your source of K2 and E? How do they compare to the relatively pure (little added ingredients) existing products? I think K2 and E are almost always soy derived.
     
  8. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I was thinking of preparing a batch of maybe 30-50 dropper bottles with labels. Then I would mail them to the people in the forum that would want to try. I am willing to eat the cost of initial trial b/c without it I would not know how much interest there is and if people would like the product. If the reviews are good, then I can invest in more bulk product and hiring a lab to do a certificate of analysis (COA).
    As far as the source - for all vitamins I would use a known vendor like Sigma-Aldrich, which can provide products with 99%+ purity. I have several suppliers, and they are all competitors so hopefully I can get them to bid with each other so I can get the lowest price:)
    Like I said - I am not trying to become a millionaire doing this. If it can cover its cost of production it would be a nice project for me and my wife, who is a Yale-educated biochemist btw and is looking for something interesting to do while staying at home and looking after our 3-month old:) I have been bombarding her constantly with Ray's ideas and I think she has been "converted" enough that now she wants to try it. She is using my supplement for pregnancy-related cosmetic issues like stretch marks and facial skin health.
    Also, her buddy from Yale (who is also a biochemist) is fascinated by Ray's ideas and what I have been flooding her with over the last 2 years. So, you can count her in as well. Her husband would be very grateful that his wife is doing something with her degree instead of sitting bored at home:) At least you'll all know that there are "qualified" people working on the product you are using.
    Ah, enough babbling on my end. I will see how the poll does in the next week or so and give it a try.
    Thanks for the great responses so far!
     
  9. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I'm interested.
     
  10. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I am stoked. :p I have been needing to get vitamin K and D but kept pushing it off. I think once I get some good K it might help me out.
     
  11. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    So, another thing that came to mind.

    PRODUCT NAME
    1. In one of my previous posts I used TetraTitans in reference
    to the 4 fat-soluble vitamins and I got some private comments from people saying they liked the name. Why Titans? Because the fat soluble vitamins is what Ray consistently mentions in terms of supplements. As you know he is not very big on supplements, but when it comes to things like niacinamide (B3) and vitamins K2, A, and E there is really no avoiding supplementation if you need the quantities used in research studies. You can use liver for vitamin A, but vitamin K contents is in the mcg range. So, one can say the 4 fat-soluble vitamins are a cornerstone of strong metabolism and Peat philosophy. Hence, the four (4) Titans or TetraTitans.

    2. Second name I was thinking about was EstroBan. As you may know already, all 4 of the fat soluble vitamins have direct anti-estrogen action. Vitamins A, D and K are potent inhibitors of aromatase (the enzyme converting testosterone into estrogen) - so they will directly lower synthesis of new estrogen. For more information just search PubMed for combinations such as "menatetrenone aromatase", "retinol aromatase", "retinoic acid aromatase", "cholecalciferol aromatase", etc. Ray even said in one of his email exchanges that all 4 of the fat soluble vitamins have anti-estrogen action but he did not specify exactly what the mechanism was. Finally, vitamin E has been extensively covered by one of Ray's articles and he says that it is anti-estrogenic by working in a direction opposite to the one of estrogen. However, what Ray does not mention in his articles is that ALL of the four tocopherols (alpha, beta, gamma, and delta) work directly like "estrogen receptor antagonists". I don't believe in the receptor theory either, but I think it serves a valid purpose for the point I am trying to make about vitamin E. I posted a study on the "estrogen receptor antagonist" property of tocopherols on the forum. So, tocopherols will help antagonize the effects of the already existing estrogen while the other 3 vitamins will inhibit the synthesis of new estrogen. For a reference point, please keep in mind that there is currently only ONE available/approved estrogen receptor antagonist drug on the market called Fulvestrant, with a myriad of bad side effects and very, very expensive.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulvestrant

    So, the mixed tocopherols are a priceless and unique gift in the sense that they are a powerful, non-toxic alternative to Fulvestrant, and combined with the other 3 fat soluble vitamins we get a powerful anti-estrogenic supplement. Hence, the name EstroBan.

    I am open to any comments/suggestions/critique. Let me know what you think about the names.
     
  12. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Definitely interested!!!
     
  13. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Pleeease pick EstroBan as the product name so we can call you Pablo EstroBan - the king of aromatase inhibiters.
     
  14. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    OH YEAH im for sure in bro. I would buy it in a heartbeat or try it or whatever :)
     
  15. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I've been reading Peat's articles for some time now and couldn't resist making an account now for a reply.

    Thought about this myself too and it sounds good! A, K2, and natural E (palm oil?) would be great imo, only thing I am against is vitamin D.

    First Vitamin D isn't a vitamin it's a seco-steroid. Second more and more studies coming out now don't find any benefit from supplementing with vitamin D nor they suggest against because of the billion dollar industrie behind it. And third they only measure 25OH vitamin D which is indeed being found too low usually, but that's not a good measurement! You should look for the 1,25(OH)2 Vitamin D (the active molecule) this blood test is quite difficult as 1,25D is fragile and measures in the pmol/L or pg/mL range. In my case. 25D vitamin D is too low but the 1,25D way too high, even in the ranges that this may lead to bone resorption! And I am surely not an exception as most people with chronic disease have their metabolites ut of whack and should becareful with vitamin D.

    more in dept information: click here
    I know many advices you can question at first and when googling many unfounded opinions will be found. But there's defintely much truth in there although it may not fit at first, anyway, sugar is also doomed in mainstream nowadays. See the possible effect on our receptors. 1,25D may inhibit thyroid alpha and beta receptor and my interfere with our glucocorticoid (cortisol) receptor too. This can explain why people don't feel good on hormones or they don't work. Either it may explain adrenal fatigue in greater depth?? (my hypothesis)

    Oh and by the way. When you're not having chronic disease. Normall light exposure is enough for vitamin D along with liver twice a week. And for the ones the use vitamin and feel a great benefit from it, that's normall but isn't lasting after months/years. Levels above >20ng/mL are becoming immunosupressive. I Know peat is against inflammation but he also seem to be keen of a good working immunesystem (lymphocytes).
     
  16. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I suggest EstroSlayer.
     
  17. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Regarding vitamin D, people here follow Peat, and he says a good goal is 50 ng/ml. This makes sense in the context of an appropriate consumption of vitamin A, including beef liver or equivalent once a week. The toxic effects require a higher dose to appear once you have appropriate consumption of vitamin A.

    I think it's easy to argue for the 50 ng/ml goal. There is a study that showed 35 ng/ml minimized PTH. There is another one showing that as you increase vitamin D consumption, the average amount of protein in the urine decreases until reaching 40 ng/ml of vitamin D. So if 40 ng/ml is a good goal for the average population, which is likely vitamin A deficient, people with good vitamin A consumption would probably have a higher ideal dose.

    That said, I live in a sunny area and don't take vit D supplements.
     
  18. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I believe the whole chain of misinformation comes from a 2010 westonprice.com article on
    vitamin D interaction with vitamin K and vitamin A. In the case of vitamin A ,study
    was based on vitamin D in calcitriol form, not the cholecalciferol D3 we take as
    supplement. It seemed like author did not know the difference between these two form of vitamin D until someone pointed that out in the comment section.
    Low calcium diet increases calcitriol ((abbreviated 1,25-(OH)2D3 or simply 1,25(OH)2D).
    Vitamin D experts recommend total 25(OH)D test.

    This youtube video by Dr Sarah Booth explains interaction between D and K
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgfhS1-3QUU
    There are several informative youtube videos by real vitamin D experts.
    Dr Michael Holick
    Dr Robert Heaney
    Dr Reinhold Vieth
     
  19. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I understand K, A, and E are important and work in conjunction (reason I responded to this). But why would one rely on an inactive metabolite? It's the 1,25D that regulates genes (calcium metabolism, 'autoimmune' reversal, ...). For example PTH is being regulated by 1,25D and not 25D.

    I also think 'vitamin' D produced in the skin under the influence of the sun is different as an oral dose - people with high exposure to sun still have relatively low circulating D.

    Anyway I am just not convinced 25D is the one to look after. But will go after these sources if i haven't seen them already, thanks ;) .
     
  20. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Yes I am interested and would order immediately. I've done things with individual liquids, but good quality and ease of less bottles would help.

    I'd be a little cautious about keeping the vitamin A portion on the lower end, both due to Dr. Peat's cautions and my own reading.

    In terms of actual relief in myself and others, I have found the vitamin D viewpoints of Veith, Hollick and others more useful than the WAPF and other critiques.

    I liked the Pablo Estroban joke. I wish I had as funny a suggestion.

    Re:peat Repleting Potion, maybe?
     
  21. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    You could call it, EstrogenDown. :)

    edit: or EstroDown.
     
  22. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I'd also like to try it, haidut. Keeping A on the low end seems like a good idea.

    How about Estrolase?
     
  23. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I am interested.
     
  24. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Great points made by everyone in this thread! Thanks for contributing.
    So, in term of dosages the goal is to have a 1oz dropper bottle holding 30 days supply of the mix. Each daily dose (about 20 drops) will contain 5,000 IU of vitamin A (retinol acetate), 2,000 IU of vitamin D3, 2mg of vitamin K2 (MK-4, menatetrenone), and 200 IU of mixed tocopherol (70% gamma tocopherol). The sample bottles will have only 2mg vitamin K per serving so I can prepare more samples, but for the actual product I plan on having anywhere between 3mg and 5mg per dosage. I am still researching the "ideal" ratio of vitamin K to the other 3, so I will know more in a few days.
    All vitamins will be dissolved in organic olive oil to make the total contents exactly 1oz as the bottle requires. The above mentioned vitamin dosages I have seen many times recommended by Peat as good trade-off between safety and effectiveness, and OK for everyday use. Obviously there will be people that will need more or less than these doses, and that can be handled by taking more or less from the drops.
    The raw materials are on their way, so by Friday of next week I should have the sample product ready. The batch will probably have about 20 bottles so hopefully I will have enough for those interested. I apologize in advance if I run out. I suspect there will be some disappointed people if I can't send a sample to every volunteer:)
    Btw, I already have at least 4-5 other Peat-power supplements in mind, but let's see how this one goes first.
    Thanks again for the enthusiastic responses, it is very inspiring.
     
  25. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Great, thanx a ton :D cant wait
     
  26. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    The daily dosages you're suggesting seem reasonable so why dilute to 20 drops per dose? The average dropper bottle will go pretty quick at that rate and, counting drops gets tedious.
     
  27. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    :woo
    So excited to hear this as I've been thinking to ask about this possibility with your Vit B Energy Punch! ;)
    Thank you so much for doing all this!
     
  28. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I would pay for a vitamin B mix, as I expect haidut to research whether niacinamide has to be balanced and such issues and make the mix accordingly.
     
  29. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Sounds great, would love to test and be on it if it works.
     
  30. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    In regards to the dilution - 1oz is about 28g. Using water (or the oil solutions I plan on using for the vitamins) as a reference point - 20-22 drops equal 1g, so at 20 drops a day an 1oz bottle would last about 28-30 days, which is what the goal is - i.e. to have a supply for about a month. This is sort of an industry standard too (having a container last 1 month) and makes getting the COA easier (don't ask me why, i have no clue). Maybe I can have 2 versions - one regular dosage and lasting 30 days, and one higher dosage that can be taken once a week maybe.
    As far as the other supplements, I like the idea of vitamin B one. I have been researching niacinamide (B3) and thiamine(B1) for the last 5 years and in addition to being good energy boosters they have strong anti-cancer properties. Ray's last newsletter talks about the so called Histone De-ACetylase (HDAC) inhibitors and how they are a very promising new pathway for anti-cancer drugs effective against many cancers. Niacinamide happens to be one of the most powerful natural HDAC inhibitors, and B1 also has strong anti-cancer properties which I posted studies about some time ago. Combine that with aspirin and caffeine, B2, B6 and some magnesium and creatine and you have a true multi-blockbuster - i.e. carbon-dioxide booster, NAD+ booster, anti-cancer, anti-autoimmunity (B3 is used to restrain diseases such as lupus, and MS), anti skin aging and natural UV protection (aspirin, caffeine and B3), brain protection and memory enhancement (creatine raises IQ in human trials, niacinamide is in clinical trials for Alzheimers, magnesium enhances cognition), libido booster (magnesium lowers estrogen and raises dopamine, thiamine raises dopamine and lowers serotonin, B3 lowers serotonin), etc. Obviously, I won't be able to make claims about any of these conditions but I can certainly link to the studies, most of which are with humans and thus directly relevant.
    I have a bag full of ideas, but first let's see how that first supplement will do and take it from there:)
     
  31. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I only just found this thread. Please put me down if possible! Thank you!
     
  32. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I would be very interested in this form of supplement. I will usually take most of these individually but often forget one or more on a daily basis.

    I've found an effective method for taking multiple fat solubles is mixing the drops with whipped refined coconut oil - just whip the oil with an electric beater until it's consistency is very soft and spreadable. It's almost like using a moisturizer and you can control the vitamin content.
     
  33. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    This is an awesome effort, haidut. I sourced all of these vitamins individually a while back and have a supply that should last another couple of months, so I will defer to others if you don't have enough to distribute on this first go'round...but I'm definitely interested in obtaining some of whatever you come up with. Thanks for getting the ball rolling!
     
  34. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Just be careful please with 'steroid' D, all I can say. Even more after today's resulst (see below)

    Although Peat say's there's a number to strive for (as I understand). The man got brilliant ideas and theories, certainly useful as he sees an organism as a whole and in perspective of the whole. Truely amazing as many people (esp. 'medicals' and scientists) lose these basic things out of sight/ never been trained to see them. But it's also based on what we know today and how Peat thinks about things. We only know so little.. and is what we think we know, right?

    I am not saying it will be bad for everyone (although it's without doubt better not to supplement - for everyone). Nor I am saying that everyone has such a concversion as I have, but got some bloodwork back today. 25D 15 nmol/L (extremely low!), 1,25D 150 pmol/L (still way too high).

    Just be skeptical. Only your heart will tell if your doing the right things!
     
  35. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    This is thread hijacking. The thread is about a supplement, not about vitamin D effects. Open your own thread to trash vitamin D and your we can't never know nothing bull****. Maybe you yourself can't know anything, others do.
     
  36. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Well.. you see any side effects of vitamin D being mentioned? I don't actually.

    I don't want to insult anyone, nor question Ray Peat. I am a fan but not following everything blindly or relying on simple statemnts - again it's just not so simple. And If you think others know anything, please stop fooling yourself..

    I wanted to give input to this 'new' supplement (vitamin D is involved in case you didn't know..) Only to get YOUR health possible better. Anyway if it's not appreciated nor being taken seriously (if only for at least 10 seconds ;)). I am fine with that, not saying this for myself.. Time will tell what the truth really is.

    Oh btw please re-read what you say "we can't never know nothing" and what I stated. This is how nonsense in being introduced in the world.

    Anyway cheers mate. And sorry Haidut wasn't my intention to spam your thread! Keep up your good work!
     
  37. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Your input has very little value. It might have more value if you research the topic before you debate it. From the stuff you posted, it's very clear you have extremely little understanding of vitamin D. For example, your claim that 1,25D is the more valuable measurement is known to be false by people who barely researched the topic. It's important for people with kidney problems who can't convert vitamin D, but the more relevant measurement for normal people is 25(OH)D.

    In this video, at 24:54 Dr Holick highlights a study that shows that when blood 25(OH)D is 10 ng/ml or less, PTH levels are highest. As 25(OH)D is increased, the PTH levels drop rapidly until about 30-40 ng/ml, where PTH levels stop dropping. So your statement about PTH not being regulated by 25(OH)D is at best misleading.

    What an idiotic statement.

    We don't know anything but you can make such general, very hard-to-prove claim with confidence? :roll:
     
  38. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I'm in.
     
  39. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Info about vitamine D metabolites, the vitamin D receptor and relation with PTH and calcium can be found at google.

    As you undoubtedly already know does PTH regulate (with other hormones) the calcium concentration in the blood. But it looks like that vitamin D has very little effect on calcium uptake.

    25D seem to do very little for calcium uptake
    another one

    So just like Peat says – get enough calcium! In my opinion getting enough calcium is far more safe than supplementing with a ‘hormone’. The way 25D influences PTH transcription is not by 25D but by 1,25D activating the Vitamine D receptor leading to PTH repression.

    And \there’s more.
    result not cause

    Because low 25D is not a cause but rather a result of dis-ease and because 25D is immunosuppressive I prefer not to supplement with it, as the immunesystemis one of our most impressive and important system especially in dis-ease, and since in dis-ease there is not a single disregulation present but a lot:
    see figure 1

    Mitochondria can also be influenced by brain activity rather than physical disfunction so in some people here that's were the problem may also lie instead of pure physical mitochondrial disfunction. See also what I wrote about 1,25D and the possibilty of influencing our thyroid- and corticosteroid receptors earlier, but now we are going too far off topic..

    My apolgies again Haidut. Will be my last answer on this thread ;)
     
  40. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    So, the samples are ready. I have about 20 bottle to send freely to people to try. About 17 people responded in the thread expressing interest in getting one, so I I sent a PM to each one of you.
    The supplement features are as follows. Solid white, plastic (HDPE) bottle with built-in dropper. The bottle holds 10ml/10cc of supplement. About 25 drops equal 1ml/1cc, so this means that in 10ml/10cc you have 250 drops. We made the supplement with the goal of lasting a month (31 days), so this means that a daily dose would be about 8 drops. In each daily does (8 drops) you have the following ingredients:

    1. Vitamin A (retinol acetate): 5,000 IU
    2. Vitamin D3: 1,500 IU
    3. Vitamin K2 (MK-4, menatetrenone): 2mg
    4. Vitamin E (mixed tocopherols, high gamma content): 200 IU.
    5. Some filler liquid consisting exclusively of organic olive oil and organic coconut oil.

    NOTHING ELSE!!! We wanted this to be as clean a supplement as possible. When you get your bottle, and before every time you take your daily dosage, I recommend shaking the bottle for about 5-10 seconds since some separation of supplements may occur while the bottle is at rest. I emphasize "may" since it did not occur in my samples but it is possible with liquids of different density and molar mass. Also, it's probably best if you keep the bottle int he fridge even though the vitamin E should protect the other vitamins and the fat from oxidation even at room temperature.
    Once everybody gets their bottle, please share some experience with the forum.
    Thanks to everybody for the encouragement!
     
  41. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I'd ask for a sample, but I'm not in the US at the moment. I wonder if international shipping would be too much to ask for.
     
  42. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I'm interested too but have some concerns. Isn't vitamin A a tricky supplement to get the proper dosage? And what about the E...would it be soy-free?

    Thanks!
     
  43. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Do you ship outside the US? I could pay the extra costs.
     
  44. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I do ship outside the US. I will ship the sample for free, but if you like it and order from me then I'll have to charge for shipping. Send me a PM with your address.
     
  45. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I ship outside the US for free, for the sample. After that, if people order I'll have to charge for shipping.
     
  46. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D


    I have made the supplement so that it contains 5,000 IU per dosage. Combined with the vitamins D, K, and E it is much less dangerous than people have been led to believe.
    Yes, the vitamin E I use is soy free.
     
  47. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I got my package yesterday and started on the it today. :claporange Many thanks to haidut for doing this. This came at the perfect time for me, it is greatly appreciated.

    I don't have a great baseline on how I feel right now from it because I am just getting over some type of bug that is going around. But I will report anything that I think should be reported.

    Btw, I kinda just let it sit under my tongue for a while, then swallowed the rest. haidut do you think there is an optimal way to take it? Drink it down straight? Take it with some food? Let it sit under the tonuge?
     
  48. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I received it (and started taking it) yesterday, and I appreciate it as well!

    I'll report any effects too. It'll be interesting to see if I notice any differences, since it will be replacing my existing K/E/D supplements.
     
  49. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I started mine today. I will report any changes as well. I will still be getting D from the sun so will need to take additional A unless I am consuming liver.

    Thank you, haidut!
     
  50. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Thanks haidut! I received mine yesterday and started it today. I will also report back. There's no sunshine here so unless Hagandazine let's me stay at her place for the rest of the winter I will just be using estroban! :lol:
     
  51. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Thanks for the update from the people who have received it. I am using the same sample for a month to compare results with the people in the forum. Personally, I just take mine with food, but I have found that keeping it under the tongue even without food must be working as well since within 5min I get high visual clarity from vitamin A that I get when taking with food. When taking with food it takes longer, maybe an hour, for me to feel the vitamin A effect. But I am assuming that taking it with food would result in better absorption due to the additional fat in the food, and vitamin K apparently requires additional fat for better utilization.
    I'd say try both and use the method which gives you the best results.
     
  52. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Hi haidut,
    Do you have anymore free samples? I'm in Canada. Thanks.
     
  53. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    My sample just arrived in the mail this morning and I took my first dose. Will also report results.
    Thank you haidut! :hattip
     
  54. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Nice hat. :mrgreen:
     
  55. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I received my sample earlier this week and have been taking 8 drops each day sublingually with food. I'm not yet sure if this is a function of the EstroBan or not, but I've noticed that the degree to which I can articulate creative and analytical streams of thought into words seems to have elevated quite a bit. I'm finding a lot of joy and ease in socializing with those around me, many of whom are folks I'd not previously met. For years, this sort of thing was a struggle, and it's vastly improved since I jumped into Peating last fall, but even just this week it feels like a whole new level. Of course, I could also chalk this up to playing a LOT of music lately, the anticipation of spring, and just surrounding myself with a lot of super positive and uplifting people.

    It's also much more convenient to have the Vitamin E, K2, A, and D3 all in one solution, rather than my usual method of having to open up each of my individual supplement bottles/droppers to get each vitamin. With that piecemeal approach I've found that I'm not as consistent keeping up with daily intake. Will continue to update and am looking forward to reading of others experiences. Even at this early juncture I'm pretty certain that it would be well worth it for me to order more EstroBan if haidut decides to move forward with it. Thanks again haidut!!
     
  56. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Thanks Haidut ! Got mine yesterday, many thanks - will feed back results!
     
  57. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Thanks everyone! Please keep the reports coming, and obviously I prefer honest reports even if they are negative.
    Ideally, if anybody goes for a blood test as part of their medical exams (if anybody is doing that at all) please have your estrogen checked. The plasma levels are unreliable, but a drop from the last time you measured it still gives some insight and would be a great result.
     
  58. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I'm 8 days in, taking 4 drops a day (half the "standard" dose), with nothing extreme to report:
    • My acne seems to have cleared a bit, which isn't surprising given that vitamin A has helped that before. But assuming the effect continues, it's interesting that it helped at such a low dosage (2,500IU), given I'd needed 10,000-100,000IU before.
    • My body temp and pulse fluctuate a lot, so it's hard to be sure of patterns, but I don't think the supplement has affected either one.
    • I've noticed an improvement in sleep and a worsening of myofascial pain, but I'm guessing those are both due to an experiment I started 11 days ago where I don't take aspirin at night.
     
  59. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Got mine today, will report results! Thanks Haidut.
     
  60. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Last week had a major change in my body where suddenly it seemed I no longer needed cascara and my thyroid function changed. After reflecting on this sudden change I realised that I had been using the estro-ban for about one week when all of the changes occurred. I'm thinking it is the vitamin a specifically that made such a big difference. Before estro-ban I got my vitamin a from diet only and the major portion of that came from liver about once a week. I had been using d and k and primarily got e from my Progest-e. I'm really liking the estro-ban so if it becomes available for purchase in the future you can count me as a customer! It's very convenient too.
     
  61. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Thanks Blossom! I really hope that the supplement helped. I use it myself and notice higher temperatures with less supplemental thyroid.
     
  62. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Hello everybody! Thanks for your patience and the feedback. After many delays in the supply chain my "crew" is ready to start supplying EstroBan commercially, and if things go smoothy, some additional supplements inspired by Peat. For those interested, here is the URL from which you can replenish your EstroBan supplies. As promised, and based on the survey, we kept the price at the lowest possible level that covers our costs. Enjoy!
    http://mkt.com/idealabs-llc
     
  63. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I have been taking estroBan for 3 weeks now. I take 4-6 drops under the tongue once a day after a meal. I feel really good taking it. I started taking thyroid at the same time so I am not sure which I can attribute the temperature raise too although I suspect its a combination of both. Either way I feel good knowing that I can getting an extra dose of the RIGHT vitamins.
    In todays world unless we are eating a perfect diet including ALL of the animal and RIPE fruits then it is a good idea to think about supplementing with the right kind of vitamins.

    Thanks Haidut for all of the information you share thorought the week and for offering this great product EstroBan!
     
  64. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I have been taking estroBan for 3-4 weeks now. I take 4 drops once a day. It makes me feel quite good. I believe I can attribute it to the vit E, since I was taking most of the other ingredients already. It reminds me of the benefits I used to get from the old unique E.

    Count me in!

    I think the site should have a bit more info so I can send people there...
     
  65. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Is the amount/container size the same as the sample?

    Thank you!
     
  66. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Help! I went to the website but could not figure out how to reorder. What am I missing?
     
  67. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I just clicked on the word estro-ban and it took me through a easy step by step process.
     
  68. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    That didn't happen for me. I clicked and got to a page where all I could do was "save to wish list." No check out process, nothing I clicked on got me to an order page.

    I'll try another browser.
     
  69. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Nope, nada. I used Firefox, Chrome and IE.
    I think it is because I'm in Canada and the account is limited to payments from the US.
    Regardless, it doesn't work for me. :(
     
  70. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Yep same for me 4peats - must be an international thing.
     
  71. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Maybe you gals could pm haidut and make other arrangements? I'm thinking he would be willing to help and maybe he doesn't know about the problem with international orders. I'm sorry to hear that.
     
  72. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I'm sure he'll work something out as he was able to ship the sample to me.
     
  73. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Hi all. Sorry about the issues with ordering. It must be the credit card processing company. They are known to randomly disallow international orders. While I am fighting with them, try to order by providing a "default" US address. Here is one to try

    Your Name
    920 U Street, NW
    Washington, DC 20001

    Then you PM me and tell me your real address. I don't have a problem shipping internationally. If that does not work we will figure something out wit PayPal or some other payment company.
    To answer the question posted before - the product I am selling is the exact same as the sample some of you received. The only difference is that the vitamin A used is "retinyl palmitate". My source for "retinyl acetate" is out of stock and I am waiting for them to restock and then I will be switching again to that form of vitamin A. All other ingredients are unchanged - both the vitamins and solvents like organic olive and coconut oil.
    I will try to post some information about the product as requested.
     
  74. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    The problem is that the regular payment processing does not even show up.
    There is no option to do anything other than "Save to list."
    So I'm not able to input a false address. PayPal will work great for me meantime. I'll PM you.

    Here's a screen shot of what comes up.
     
  75. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Apologies for the these technical hiccups, they are not of my making.
    While I am wrestling with this issue that is entirely the making of the credit card merchant, people outside the USA can use this free tool/service to "simulate" being present in the USA.

    https://hola.org/

    The credit card processing company claims to be able to process international cards and says the issue is the person being present in the USA. Given how easy it is to appear to be coming from anywhere, even unintentionally, I think this is a rather unimaginative approach on behalf of the merchant, and I will be looking for other more international-friendly services. In the meantime please try to use the free masking service above and let me know if it works or not.
    Thanks to everyone for their understanding.
     
  76. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Hola-luia! :woo

    Thanks haidut, the Hola tool worked fine. Not sure why Unlocator didn't kick in. :?
    Nonetheless, I'm all good now to place my order.
     
  77. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Awesome! Glad it is working as expected. If anybody else tries it out from outside the USA I'd appreciate some success/failure feedback.
    Thanks in advance.
     
  78. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Thanks for the affordable pricing!
     
  79. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Sorry to say, I spoke to soon. :(

    I managed to bypass the restrictions using Hola OK but even with a fake address I couldn't get past aditional restrictions because you have to use a valid zip with your credit card information. Using a false zip code doesn't work as it comes up invalid payment info and it will only take a US zip code.
     
  80. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Does it decline the transaction if you use your real address? I am thinking that if the merchant says they accept international credit cards, they would accept international addresses. I am close to finding alternatives so stay put pls.
     
  81. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I tried my real address first and that wouldn't take at all. So I used the fake one you suggested and I bypassed that problem. The further problem was that there is a "zip" box included with the credit card info. It won't accept a Canadian postal code and when I tried a fake zip, it came back incorrect card info, which makes sense of course. It doesn't seem that the merchant does accept international credit cards because this set up requires a zip code to be associated with the credit card.

    No problem with the wait, haidut. It's worth it!

    I'm posting in this thread rather than PM in case others run into similar issues and can know what's going on. I know you are working on it and appreciate all your effort! :hattip
     
  82. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    OK, here is a temporary option with PayPal that should work with international orders.

    http://haidut.dyndns.org/estroban.html

    I am also getting a quote from a bank to start processing the sales myself, but that will probably take 1-2 weeks. Please let me know if the PayPal option works.
    Thanks.
     
  83. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    My payment just went through PayPal no problem.
    Thank you for the quick action on this. I am nearly done my sample!
     
  84. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I have used the supplement with success, my acne is actually gone which is nice. I just ordered two new bottles. Thanks a lot!
     
  85. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Yep, same here. Just ordered a few bottles. Can't wait!
     
  86. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I also just ordered my first bottle using Paypal. I'm located in Europe by the way.
    Really appreciate that the product is not very expensive and shipping costs are not high either.
    Hopefully it will arrive fairly quick as I can't wait to try it out! Thanks Haidut!
     
  87. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Got my Estroban yesterday! So happy with this product.

    Must reorder several bottles as this is by far one of the best supplements I have used, especially for bone metabolism. I had debilitating knee pain that disappeared within a few days using Estroban.

    Thank you haidut :hattip

    Can't wait for that B supplement now. ;)
     
  88. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I am thinking how RP improved absorption of progesterone by dissolving it in
    vitamin E. It is possible that the this mix of fat soluble vitamins with
    vitamin E has some extra beneficial effects.
     
  89. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I can't believe I'm just hearing this now - I've got to start checking these more obscure subforums more often. This is exciting! Thanks haidut!
     
  90. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I will be posting a link of haiduts store on the front page. Haidut is also welcome to post a new thread announcing his store, and I will also pin that announcement to the top of the supplements forum.

    Thanks for all you do for the community, haidut. :hattip
     
  91. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    @Haidut How much Vitamin D is it in one serving? I just looked at toxinless.com and it says 5000IU per serving.
     
  92. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Just ordered, great product, great idea. Just wondering, why not also adding vitamin K1 and MK-7 ?
     
  93. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I personally have not bought various vitamin K products because they had MK7. I only buy K2 products with MK4 and no other form of vitamin K2. There are many experiments showing the safety of MK4 at very high doses. The same isn't true for MK7. You have a lower limit for the maximum number of drops you can take without worry when you add MK7.
     
  94. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I just ordered my first bottle :) Paypal works fine! Thanks, haidut!
     
  95. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Studies show that the optimal ratio of vitamin A to vitamin D is about 5:1, so the product has 5,000 IU of vitamin A and 1,000 IU of vitamin D3 per serving. I could make it higher but a lot of people I know report bad side effects from doses of vitamin D3 above 1,500 IU per day (as a supplement).
     
  96. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Just like "j." said in his response - vitamins K1 and MK-7 actually have some pretty serious side effects in high doses and I would not want to risk it. Not to mention that even with those vitamins, I think your body converts them first to K2 (MK-4) anyways to be useful. At least this is what happens for K1.
    Vitamin K1 in doses of 1mg (1,000mcg) or higher can cause a blood clot to form, especially in people with high estrogen (which also increases clotting activity). There are published case studies on PubMed of people having a mild stroke and/or heart attack, attributed to high K1 dosage. I am sure nobody here is willing to take that risk with K1 right?
    Vitamin K2 on the other hand, has a safety study of 45mg taken 3 times a day for a total of 135mg a day, and this went on for 12 months with no side effects or measurable changes in hemological parameters (i.e. clotting, etc). In fact, the study said that the optimal dose for osteoporosis may actually be that higher dose of 135mg per day rather than 45mg per day we have all heard of.
    Anyways, long story short - K2 is the form recommended by Peat and the safest one so far.
     
  97. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Vitamin K2 of the form MK4, not vitamin K2 of the form MK7. MK7 is also K2 but its safety at high doses such as 135 mg isn't proven, my guess is that its safety wasn't proven because it just isn't safe.
     
  98. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Anyone has a link to that study?

    Regarding using a dose higher than 45 mg, I think it would be good to know what's a good amount of vitamin E to ensure K doesn't deplete E.
     
  99. Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Yep, here it is:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19894328