EstroBan - Dietary Supplement With Vitamins K2, A, D, E

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, Jan 24, 2014.

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Would you buy custom, liquid suplement with the 4 fat-soluble vitamins (K2, A, D, E)?

  1. No

    5 vote(s)
    2.8%
  2. Only if it costs less than $50 for 30 days supply

    17 vote(s)
    9.6%
  3. Only if it costs less than $40 for 30 days supply

    11 vote(s)
    6.2%
  4. Only if it costs less than $30 for 30 days supply

    41 vote(s)
    23.2%
  5. Only if it costs less than $20 for 30 days supply

    60 vote(s)
    33.9%
  6. Only if it costs less than $10 for 30 days supply

    43 vote(s)
    24.3%
  1. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Also, this study in which the rats got higher testosterone has a human equivalent dosage of 2mg+/kg of body weight.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21914161

    So, someone with weight of 70kg would have to take 140mg+ of K2 to replicate the dosage in the study.
     
  2. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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  3. aguilaroja

    aguilaroja Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    At 1.5 mg per day, K2 (MK-4) appears bone protective:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23702931

    Low-dose vitamin K2 (MK-4) supplementation for 12 months improves bone metabolism and prevents forearm bone loss in postmenopausal Japanese women. J Bone Miner Metab. 2014 Mar;32(2):142-50. doi: 10.1007/s00774-013-0472-7. Epub 2013 May 24.
    Koitaya N1, Sekiguchi M, Tousen Y, Nishide Y, Morita A, Yamauchi J, Gando Y, Miyachi M, Aoki M, Komatsu M, Watanabe F, Morishita K, Ishimi Y.
     
  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    That's great! Since this is how much vitamin K2 there is in a single serving of my supplement I am hopeful that it would have beneficial effect on bone health as well. I wonder if by all being anti-estrogenic the fat-soluble vitamins have synergistic effects on bone health. Ray wrote in the past that elevated estrogen is very bad for bones, especially for post-menopausal women, so hopefully lowering estrogen this way would help even more than just vitamin K2 alone.
     
  5. Filip1993

    Filip1993 Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Nice! Yeah, 1000 IU is perfect. Thanks.
     
  6. Vinero

    Vinero Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I received my first bottle of EstroBan today. Delivery was quite fast (5 working days). I live in the Netherlands. This is the first time I will be supplementing with fat-soluble vitamins.
    There's just no way to get high quality supplements from the above vitamins if you live here.. So I hope that you keep selling EstroBan Haidut!!
    The price is also perfect. If it's under 22 euros then there's no trouble from customs :)
     
  7. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Thanks Vinero! I hope EstroBan helps you, and we certainly plan on keeping selling it, at as low price as possible. Other than some dramatic increase in the price of one of the ingredients, I don't see a reason for price increase.
     
  8. acrylic

    acrylic Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Can you post the COA for the product to this thread? thanks!
     
  9. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I will be sending the individual COA to Charlie and he will post to the forum. I am currently looking for a company that would do cheaply a COA for the entire product. Right now, the quotes I am getting are in the $10K range, so obviously I keep looking.
     
  10. Wilfrid

    Wilfrid Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Regarding Ray's favorite vitamin K form, does he not consider the Life Extension product (which contains the K1, K2 (MK-4 and MK-7) forms) one of the best products to use?
    I can't find where he recommends only the vitamin K2 as supplement, and especially the MK-4 form?
    Can anyone redirect me on this source of information?
     
  11. j.

    j. Guest

    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Regarding using K2 of the MK4 form, it's implied in the advice, because he advises doses in milligrams, and the safety of MK7 in such doses hasn't been tested. It typically isn't even sold in milligrams, but in micrograms.

    I think Peat is ok with use of K1.
     
  12. Wilfrid

    Wilfrid Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    @j,

    Ray recommends over a milligrams of it in case of using aspirine, right?
    But if one is not using aspirin, liver or even cooked greens could supply enough microgramms of either vitamin K1 or ( mk-4) K2.
    In this case, for a more physiological dosage, don't you think it would be safe to use now and then (may be two or three times a week) the MK-7 form?
     
  13. j.

    j. Guest

    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I don't know, I was talking only about people who rely on supplements.
     
  14. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I think he said in an email exchange that "all forms [of vitamin K] are good", however I personally disagree with him on that point. There have been multiple studies comparing K1 with K2 and only K2 had anti-calcification activity in soft tissues. In addition, only MK-4 (but not MK-7, or K1) have proven anti-osteoporosis effect in humans. That is, in studies conducted so far. Here is something to consider from the Wikipedia page and those interested can read the studies in the references section:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_K

    "...Vitamin K2 as MK-4, but not as MK-7 (and also not vitamin K1) has also been shown to prevent bone loss and/or fractures."

    "...And in an animal model MK-4 was shown to prevent arterial calcifications, pointing to its potential role in prevention of such calcification.[52] In this study vitamin K1 was also tested, in an attempt to make connections between vitamin K1 intake and calcification reduction. Only vitamin K2 (as MK-4) was found to influence warfarin-induced calcification in this study."

    "...In two separate studies in the rat model, after long term administration of Coumadin to induce calcification of arteries in the rodents, supplemental vitamin K was found to reverse or prevent some of the arterial calcification attendant on the long-term blockade of vitamin K.[56] A second study found that only vitamin K2 as MK-4, and not vitamin K1 was effective at preventing warfarin-induced arterial calcification in rats, suggesting differing roles for the two forms of the vitamin in some calcium-dependent processes."


    "...To get maximum carboxylation of osteocalcin, one may have to take up to 1000 μg of vitamin K1."

    So, in terms of reversing calcification, which is what has the most dramatic effect on metabolism (i.e. removing calcium from tissue cells and putting it into bones) only K2 (MK-4) is effective. K1 seems to have mostly hemostatic activity (clotting) and I am not sure what MK-7 does. So far, MK-7 seems to be little more than a marketing ploy by the soy industry in Japan and cheese industry in the Netherlands (the two main sources of MK-7) to get rid of its waste products.

    Finally, the last quote above troubles me. If true, this is a huge dose for K1, and may increase the risk of blood clot. I have asked doctors about that and they agree. Vitamin K1 is almost always given in microgram doses. Milligram doses are risky and reserved for dire circumstances and typically only used in ER setting.
     
  15. j.

    j. Guest

    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I've seen K1 sold in milligrams, probably there is some evidence for its safety (that said, I wouldn't bother with it when I can just get MK4).
     
  16. Kasper

    Kasper Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    My mother has used this product on her skin for psoriasis. It hasn't looked better for months, and works much better than her normal medication. She is really happy about it. Thanks haidut
     
  17. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    You are welcome! I am glad it is helping people, that's the only goal really!
     
  18. Wilfrid

    Wilfrid Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I received my Estroban and Stressnon last week!
    Thanks for the quick delivery, Haidut. (the package you sent to Cannes was for me! :thankyou , I ordered it through my wife's paypal account...).
    I'm very pleased with both!
    My only regret is that CoQ10 is missing to the good mix of Estroban....may be later you will add it,no? :D
    I propably gonna order your B supplement too but I want my thiamine pyrophosphate :roll: ....
     
  19. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I was thinking of adding CoQ10 but Ray has said many times that K2 is better than CoQ10 by several orders of magnitude. K2 is actually a naphtoquinone and it is indeed a much more effective electron acceptor than CoQ10. So, in terms of metabolism K2 is likely better than CoQ10 and at much lower doses.
     
  20. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Hello everyone. My family and I will be out of town until June 11, so we won't be able to process and ship orders. Thus, I have "closed" the online store until June 11. If people are willing to place orders now but have them shipped on June 12, please let me know and I will leave the store open while we are out. Otherwise, I am looking forward to restarting the order processing in about 3 weeks. I will still try to post on the forum even while we are out, depending on availability of Internet connection. Thank you for your understanding!
     
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