EstroBan - Liquid Vitamin (K, A, D, E) Mix

[haidut]

Apparently I'm the last person to be giving advice to anyone and in doing so I ended up getting to the bottom of the problems that I thought had to do with Estroban and Gonadin.

I stupidly confused quinolones (e.g., Cipro) with quinones in some "advice" I gave to someone with SIBO. Dhair caught it and corrected me and when I saw his description of his symptoms my blood ran cold. Cipro is neurotoxic, myopathic and tendonipathic. All the aches and pains, the crippling irritation in my hips and knees after exercising, the incredible soreness in some tendons in my feet making it very hard to walk, the wipeout of any feeling in the gonads: all Cipro. I had it prescribed for a UTI. 14 day program.

I thought it had to hormonal, too much AI effect. But T was normal. Then I got the news from the Forum.

Everybody's taken it. Does it have long term, cumulative effects? Probably not. But then.... Continuous use not good. IV in the hospital the worst.

Just search the site for "fluoroquinolones" if you're unaware of it. There's a lot there.

Of the quinolones, Levaquin is probably one of the worst. It can kill you through a heart arrhythmia.

 

[aguilaroja]

Of the quinolones, Levaquin is probably one of the worst. It can kill you through a heart arrhythmia.

The now-withdrawn Temafloxacin (Ominflox) caused hemolytic anemia, severe kidney damage requiring dialysis, and included 4 deaths in its first four months of use in the U.S. Jay S. Cohen, M.D. published articles and a book about fluoroquinolone dangers.

Temafloxacin syndrome: review of 95 cases. - PubMed - NCBI

Swallowing Hard

https://rxisk.org/flox-tox/

 

[mujuro]

Of the quinolones, Levaquin is probably one of the worst. It can kill you through a heart arrhythmia.

Erythromycin too. It put me in hospital with 190bpm atrial fibrillation.

 

[Owen B]

It's been six weeks since I ended the Cipro. I'm just getting back to normal. No pains now and some sexual feeling returning. I think I should consider myself lucky. My primary was a little surprised that the urgent care gave it to me for 14 days; he said maybe 5-6 days.

But that's the medical profession: anything is a medicine that doesn't kill you.

 

[sladerunner69]

I stopped taking vitamin k2 and feel better, does anyone ahve similar experience with estroban?

 

[haidut]

It's been six weeks since I ended the Cipro. I'm just getting back to normal. No pains now and some sexual feeling returning. I think I should consider myself lucky. My primary was a little surprised that the urgent care gave it to me for 14 days; he said maybe 5-6 days.

But that's the medical profession: anything is a medicine that doesn't kill you.

I think the most troubling fact is that no two doctors seem to agree with each other. Every new doctor you go to rolls his/her eyes and says "Oh my, what were they thinking!" Now imagine this was not an antibiotic but a procedure with high potential to kill or maim you. How can one trust anything a doctor says then!? Even you want to abide by "trust your doctor" mantra, the question is "Trust who? Which one? And why one and not another?".

 

[Owen B]

I stopped taking vitamin k2 and feel better, does anyone ahve similar experience with estroban?

Were you taking the K2 separately or in the Estroban? What kind of symptoms do you think it caused?

 

[raypeatclips]

I stopped taking vitamin k2 and feel better, does anyone ahve similar experience with estroban?

I have very negative reactions to oral k2 and have felt strange after taking a few mgs topically of k2. I've never noticed anything negative taking estroban 8 drops topically however. Were you taking k2 oral or topical, what dose and product? What was your reaction?

 

[sladerunner69]

I have very negative reactions to oral k2 and have felt strange after taking a few mgs topically of k2. I've never noticed anything negative taking estroban 8 drops topically however. Were you taking k2 oral or topical, what dose and product? What was your reaction?

I've done 5mg pills as well as idealabs k2 in dmso. Both increase my testosterone noticeably, but also suppress estrogen. I get an emotionless type feeling, with just increase assertiveness, drive, but also irritability and anger which become counter productive. Bare in mind I have post finasteride syndrome and we are known to respond poorly to androgens. I believe I have an allopreg-GABA deficiency and that increasing testosterone worsens these symptoms- anxiety, irritability, mental fatigue.

So I am sort of trying to ascertain whether my reactions to k2, vitamin E, (all fat solubles), androsterone, etc are specific to my PFS. Some other guys have complained about bone/nerve pain, lack of emotions, brain fog on anti-estrogen supps.

Oh also libido as well. My erections are stronger and more sensitive off these vitamins, in fact they tens to be strongest the day AFTER I have a few cocktails. Alcohol increases estrogen and GABA. When i stopped taking all vitamins except niacinimide, b6 and magnesium, and cutback my caffiene intake from 600-800mg to 300, my libido and pleasure sensations went up big time. Im going to try and stop coffee completely and see what happens.

 

[sladerunner69]

Were you taking the K2 separately or in the Estroban? What kind of symptoms do you think it caused?

Refer to above sry

 

[haidut]

Alcohol increases estrogen and GABA

Alcohol also strongly increases ACTH, which increases 17,20-lyase activity and this conversion of pregnenolone to DHEA. Combined with the estrogen boost I can see why erections/libido can be high after drinking. But chronic alcohol use inhibits the entire steroidogenic cascade, so occasional use is key.

 

[sladerunner69]

Alcohol also strongly increases ACTH, which increases 17,20-lyase activity and this conversion of pregnenolone to DHEA. Combined with the estrogen boost I can see why erections/libido can be high after drinking. But chronic alcohol use inhibits the entire steroidogenic cascade, so occasional use is key.

Ive noticed it in fact largely depends on the type of alcohol. If I drink a few beers, with hoppy flavors *estrogen*, i will barely get an erection at all. If I sip on a few martinis made with london gin my libido will markedly improve ans erections uneffected. @Travis pointed out that english gin has certain properties not making it a depressant, whereas american gin IS a depressant. Pretty interesting. I still woke up the following morning with a headache and felt off all day...

 

[Travis]

Ive noticed it in fact largely depends on the type of alcohol. If I drink a few beers, with hoppy flavors *estrogen*, i will barely get an erection at all. If I sip on a few martinis made with london gin my libido will markedly improve ans erections uneffected. @Travis pointed out that english gin has certain properties not making it a depressant, whereas american gin IS a depressant. Pretty interesting. I still woke up the following morning with a headache and felt off all day...

It wasn't Gordon's? was it?

 

[Travis]

I couldn't find the article that I'd read on humans, but I found this:

• Nielsen, Gunnar Damgård, et al. "Mechanisms of Acute Inhalation Effects of (+) and (−)‐α‐Pinene in BALB/c Mice." Basic & clinical pharmacology & toxicology 96.6 (2005): 420-428.

The (−) enantiomer also induced anesthesia/and or pulmonary irritation as well as sudden death at concentrations above 2600 ppm. Overall, the enantiomers showed different time-dependent and stereoselective effects. The lower sensory irritation effect of the (−) enantiomer probably being due to less of the molecule being adsorbed to a sensory irritant receptor.

click to embiggen

They certainly are different, and only one is a depressant. The passage which states that English conifers only carry the (−) enantiomer can be found here:

• Eley, D. D. "Horizons in Biochemistry." Academic Press, New York(1962): 241.

"American conifers manufacture l-pinene whereas the European conifers produce d-pinene (see Rush, 1957.)" ―Eyring*
​

The l-enantiomer is synonymous with the (−)-enantiomer, whereas the d-enantiomer is synonymous with the (+)-enantiomer. Wikipedia's article on optical rotation will confirm this. The always-italicized† letter "l" is derived from that Latin word levorotary, meaning left-rotational—the direction this molecule rotates plane-polarized light in solution. The "d" comes from the Latin dextrorotory, and gets the positive sign in the Anglo-Saxon dominated field of chemistry.

Thus, American conifers manufacture the depressant enantiomer of α-pinene: The European conifer's produce the (+)-enantiomer, with
altogether different physiological properties. Assuming that all gin is made with local juniper berries—probably not a fair assumption, I know—you would expect London Dry Gin to have less of a depressant effect than American varieties (I'm talking about you, Seagram's! (and other local craft gins, as well as most of the cheaper gins)).

*Page 249 of book, or 132 of Adobe Reader™.
†Everytime you don't italicize this, IUPAC kills a puppy.

 

[Peata]

Sorry if this has been asked, I couldn't find in a search.

Is Estroban considered safe in pregnancy? (Has the vitamin A).

 

[Constatine]

Sorry if this has been asked, I couldn't find in a search.

Is Estroban considered safe in pregnancy? (Has the vitamin A).

Just my opinion I think it is better to get all your nutrients via food when pregnant. Just in case.

 

[Kray]

I think the most troubling fact is that no two doctors seem to agree with each other. Every new doctor you go to rolls his/her eyes and says "Oh my, what were they thinking!" Now imagine this was not an antibiotic but a procedure with high potential to kill or maim you. How can one trust anything a doctor says then!? Even you want to abide by "trust your doctor" mantra, the question is "Trust who? Which one? And why one and not another?".

Haidut,

Sorry if this is not the right place to post this, but I word-searched "fluoroquinolones", and found this thread where it was briefly discussed.

Last week my husband had acute case of UTI (aka: prostatitis per doc), ended up in ER, in hosp 3 days, positive urine and BLOOD for E.coli! Told him he could have died had he waited to get help.

Anyway, post-discharge given 30 days Cipro. Any advice from a Peaty standpoint you could give to guard against potential deleterious effects of this class of drugs as well as effects of antibiotics in general?

 

[Frankdee20]

Haidut,

Sorry if this is not the right place to post this, but I word-searched "fluoroquinolones", and found this thread where it was briefly discussed.

Last week my husband had acute case of UTI (aka: prostatitis per doc), ended up in ER, in hosp 3 days, positive urine and BLOOD for E.coli! Told him he could have died had he waited to get help.

Anyway, post-discharge given 30 days Cipro. Any advice from a Peaty standpoint you could give to guard against potential deleterious effects of this class of drugs as well as effects of antibiotics in general?

Take Valium

 

[haidut]

Haidut,

Sorry if this is not the right place to post this, but I word-searched "fluoroquinolones", and found this thread where it was briefly discussed.

Last week my husband had acute case of UTI (aka: prostatitis per doc), ended up in ER, in hosp 3 days, positive urine and BLOOD for E.coli! Told him he could have died had he waited to get help.

Anyway, post-discharge given 30 days Cipro. Any advice from a Peaty standpoint you could give to guard against potential deleterious effects of this class of drugs as well as effects of antibiotics in general?

I would defer to your doctors for a final decision but the most common antibiotic used for E. coli is amoxicillin, and it is a lot safer than cipro. So, I would ask for that antibiotic and insist on it unless there is a very good reason not to use it. Unless your husband is allergic to it or they have tested his bacterial specimen and have found it to be resistant to amoxicillin, there is no good reason to jump on the cipro bandwagon given its toxicity and that there really no proven ways to protect against the damage it does.

 

[Kray]

Haidut,

Here's the printout he was given. Cipro was in bold, as shown. Note that it shows to be the lowest value, with
Trimeth/Sulfameth the next closest. Someone (doctor or other personnel who reviewed this with us, made the scratch mark). This suggests Trimeth/Sulfameth is next-best. Is this the class of drugs Bactrim is in? Bactrim was discussed as a possible option for the last 2 weeks of treatment- 2 wks on Cipro, 2 wks on Bactrim. Yesterday's doctor didn't recommend switching because of possible side effects of Bactrim, and another drug being introduced, possible resistance situation down the road. Don't know if this is accepted position among doctors. That was his opinion, in spite of our hesitancy about Cipro.

What class does Ampicillin belong to? Is it part of those listed? He did get IV for 4 days between ER and inpatient, which was Rocephin (Ancef). They said it was a pencillin relative.

CULTURE >100,000 Col/ml Escherichia coli
SUSCEPTIBILITY
ORGANISM >100,000 Col/ml Escherichia coli
METHOD MIC

Ampicillin <=4 Susceptible
Ampicill/Sulbact. 4/2 Susceptible
Cefazolin <=1 Susceptible
Cefazolin results predict results for the oral agents cefaclor, cefdinir, cefpodoxime,
cefprozil, cefuroxime, cephalexin, and loracarbef.
Ceftriaxone <=1 Susceptible
Ciprofloxacin <=0.5 Susceptible
Gentamicin <=1 Susceptible
Levofloxacin <=1 Susceptible
Nitrofurantoin <=16 Susceptible
Tetracycline <=2 Susceptible
Organisms that are susceptible to tetracycline are considered susceptible
to doxycycline and minocycline.
Tobramycin <=2 Susceptible
Trimeth/Sulfameth <=0.5/9.5 Susceptible -
Ceftazidime <=2 Susceptible