EstroBan - Liquid Vitamin (K, A, D, E) Mix

[Owen B]

I've been off the Estroban and stopped my rat on Gonadin for a couple of weeks now. Only 3-4 drops a day orally with Estro and 1-2 drops of Gonadin to the rat. Maybe a week with the Estro and only a couple of days with the Gonadin.

But still, no libido. Virtually zeroed out. Muscles sore, joints achy. Not that I'm into weights that much, but the little that I did in the past never seemed to bother me like now. Ditto with stretching. An hour of stretching was always invigorating. Now my muscles ache from it for days.

I'm going to have to have some numbers done. I'm thinkin of E1s, estradiol, estrone, DHEA, cortisol, 5-AR (?), T.

Anyone think of anything else?

Can there be too much AI from these chemicals?

 

[haidut]

I've been off the Estroban and stopped my rat on Gonadin for a couple of weeks now. Only 3-4 drops a day orally with Estro and 1-2 drops of Gonadin to the rat. Maybe a week with the Estro and only a couple of days with the Gonadin.

But still, no libido. Virtually zeroed out. Muscles sore, joints achy. Not that I'm into weights that much, but the little that I did in the past never seemed to bother me like now. Ditto with stretching. An hour of stretching was always invigorating. Now my muscles ache from it for days.

I'm going to have to have some numbers done. I'm thinkin of E1s, estradiol, estrone, DHEA, cortisol, 5-AR (?), T.

Anyone think of anything else?

Can there be too much AI from these chemicals?

EstroBan tankes my estrogen a few years back when I was experimenting with it just before releasing it. But at the time my estrogen was high, so I did not worry it can lower it too much. Yes, those would be tests I would do, as well prolactin and progesterone.

 

[mosaic01]

Any information about the shelf life of EstroBan without refrigeration? I'm using the opened bottle for around 6 months now.

 

[haidut]

Any information about the shelf life of EstroBan without refrigeration? I'm using the opened bottle for around 6 months now.

Nothing in that product spoils AFAIK. We have a bottle sitting on a counter for over 2 years and I use it sometimes. The effects and taste are the same.

 

[Johnson Bagfoot]

A few quick questions;

1) I've never done anything other than swallow pills, but it seems to upset stomach. How exactly do you do topical administration? With estroban is it a case of rubbing it on the skin anywhere... or does it only work in particular sites ?

2) On behalf of someone else interested in this product - would it likely be beneficial and safe for subclinical hypothyroidism, TSH 5~? In this thread there are claims of metabolism boosting effects, but also some contrary evidence about some of the vitamins alone?

Warm regards, Johnson

 

[haidut]

A few quick questions;

1) I've never done anything other than swallow pills, but it seems to upset stomach. How exactly do you do topical administration? With estroban is it a case of rubbing it on the skin anywhere... or does it only work in particular sites ?

2) On behalf of someone else interested in this product - would it likely be beneficial and safe for subclinical hypothyroidism, TSH 5~? In this thread there are claims of metabolism boosting effects, but also some contrary evidence about some of the vitamins alone?

Warm regards, Johnson

I can't talk about specific conditions or how it would affect them. Bit if you go through the thread you will see plenty of testimonials. As far as topical - people usually rub it anywhere they see fit. Mostly on arms, shoulders, legs, etc and some people use temples, forehead, and even neck. The stomach upset seems to be related to vitamin E, as quite a few people reported same issues with using pure vitamin E supplements orally.

 

[Johnson Bagfoot]

I can't talk about specific conditions or how it would affect them. Bit if you go through the thread you will see plenty of testimonials. As far as topical - people usually rub it anywhere they see fit. Mostly on arms, shoulders, legs, etc and some people use temples, forehead, and even neck. The stomach upset seems to be related to vitamin E, as quite a few people reported same issues with using pure vitamin E supplements orally.

Apologies if this is a very novice question as I'm quite new to biochemistry / hormones:

Not specific to this product, but if pulse/temp increase with ADEK (or simply a few of these), does that mean the reduction in stress hormones of themselves has automatically improved metabolism? I'm curious, because stress hormones are sometimes talked about here as compensating for reduced thyroid functioning. Presumably if stress hormones were lowered, it can sometimes reveal impaired thyroid function they were propping up. E.g. there are several forum reports of anti cortisol drugs lowering pulse here.

Or do high stress hormones sometimes also impair thyroid function by themselves? (E.g. if there's a feedback loop of stress hormone release over time, even if the thyroid has potential to function well or regenerate function, it's locked into low functioning until that stress hormone loop is broken. I believe somewhere you talked about potentially interrupting any of high estrogen/cortisol/prolactin/etc could help restore metabolism?)


On another note, topical administration was absolutely fine

 

[sladerunner69]

Should I be concerned with lowering estrogen too much? When I take estroban, vitamin k2, aspirin, coffee, etc, my bones begin to crack very easily and my back hurts. Is estrogen good for joint health? Maybe I don't need to block estrogen, maybe consuming low pufa and maintaining good digestion is all I really need.

 

[Constatine]

Should I be concerned with lowering estrogen too much? When I take estroban, vitamin k2, aspirin, coffee, etc, my bones begin to crack very easily and my back hurts. Is estrogen good for joint health? Maybe I don't need to block estrogen, maybe consuming low pufa and maintaining good digestion is all I really need.

You should definitely not block estrogen to the point you are getting problems.

 

[Johnson Bagfoot]

You should definitely not block estrogen to the point you are getting problems.

Is there any objective way of measuring estrogen levels?

 

[sladerunner69]

You should definitely not block estrogen to the point you are getting problems.

Yeah, what are the common symptoms to observe? Libido and joints?

 

[Mito]

Is there any objective way of measuring estrogen levels?

Prolactin

 

[Frankdee20]

I have low libido but normal E2, normal prolactin

 

[Frankdee20]

Then again, if I'm in the company of an attractive woman that I've got some rapport with, I'd definitely go in for the kill. I will not however, be so horned up as to target a stranger in a bar or something. I'm pretty damn shy. So I guess what really is libido? Constantly thinking about sex that it becomes a primary urge to fulfill in spite of loneliness ? Yeah I don't have that.

 

[Johnson Bagfoot]

Apologies if this is a very novice question as I'm quite new to biochemistry / hormones:

Not specific to this product, but if pulse/temp increase with ADEK (or simply a few of these), does that mean the reduction in stress hormones of themselves has automatically improved metabolism? I'm curious, because stress hormones are sometimes talked about here as compensating for reduced thyroid functioning. Presumably if stress hormones were lowered, it can sometimes reveal impaired thyroid function they were propping up. E.g. there are several forum reports of anti cortisol drugs lowering pulse here.

Or do high stress hormones sometimes also impair thyroid function by themselves? (E.g. if there's a feedback loop of stress hormone release over time, even if the thyroid has potential to function well or regenerate function, it's locked into low functioning until that stress hormone loop is broken. I believe somewhere you talked about potentially interrupting any of high estrogen/cortisol/prolactin/etc could help restore metabolism?)


On another note, topical administration was absolutely fine

To follow up on this, took 2 drops (1/4 dose) topically today and it seemed to trigger a stress reaction within 20 minutes. Usual pulse is 50-60, this has been around 80-90 for the past 2 hours since dosing. Temperature also possibly a little higher. Should be better on paper, but feeling considerable anxiety (impending doom type feelings) and heaviness.

It is probably related to my situation - quite high TSH 4~. And quite suppressed cortisol, if it had been a little lower, the endocrinologist said he would have put my on hydrocortisone.

But still, curious as to what the mechanisms of this might be? If cortisol blunting had been behind it, I would have expected a drop in pulse. This is the effect cyproheptadine gave me.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Should I be concerned with lowering estrogen too much? When I take estroban, vitamin k2, aspirin, coffee, etc, my bones begin to crack very easily and my back hurts. Is estrogen good for joint health? Maybe I don't need to block estrogen, maybe consuming low pufa and maintaining good digestion is all I really need.

Running into a similar problem. Wondering if it is due to estrogen or just a lowering of cortisol. My neck is starting to hurt bad, alongside joints. Fatigue is also arising.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

I think that's possible about the estrogen. I remember Haidut writing about weightlifters who take a lot of AIs and end up with hypogonadism.

It's true. I underestimated this stuff. I thought it was going to be a kind of neutral maintenance thing. It's stronger than I thought.

I decided to go back to topical and cycle off it for awhile. I did notice increased libido with the topical. This all started with oral. I also used some topical Progestene for the first time in a while. I think it's already helped. I may have been low. It has an AI effect though too, but i think it's anabolic at low doses.

Yeah I think I am lowering my too much. The relaxed feeling is also a huge issue, I can lay on the bed the whole day sometimes since taking estroban. Also after using it orally for a few days I woke up with massive eye pressure and pain like they were bugging out. Sticking to every other day for now.

Though I have experienced weight loss and increase in body hair/libido So I want to continue..

 

[sladerunner69]

Running into a similar problem. Wondering if it is due to estrogen or just a lowering of cortisol. My neck is starting to hurt bad, alongside joints. Fatigue is also arising.

Yeah neck and fatigue. I think it will get better as thyroid kicks in to replace it. Could be either estrogen or cortisol or both. What are you temps and pulse? What are you taking for supplements?

 

[sladerunner69]

Yeah I think I am lowering my too much. The relaxed feeling is also a huge issue, I can lay on the bed the whole day sometimes since taking estroban. Also after using it orally for a few days I woke up with massive eye pressure and pain like they were bugging out. Sticking to every other day for now.

Though I have experienced weight loss and increase in body hair/libido So I want to continue..

Yeah the eye pressure is concerning. I don't think I have ti that bad but it's defintiely there. Sometimes it totally bugs out too, and very hard to focus with my vision. Got a lot better when I dropped the androsterone/k2/vitamin e. Now just taking caffiene, aspirin, b3. But maybe Ill stop the aspirin as well because its beenr ecommended tot ake that with the k2. Ray Peat might be wise about his preference to not take any supplements if you don't really need to.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Yeah the eye pressure is concerning. I don't think I have ti that bad but it's defintiely there. Sometimes it totally bugs out too, and very hard to focus with my vision. Got a lot better when I dropped the androsterone/k2/vitamin e. Now just taking caffiene, aspirin, b3. But maybe Ill stop the aspirin as well because its beenr ecommended tot ake that with the k2. Ray Peat might be wise about his preference to not take any supplements if you don't really need to.

Relieving to hear I am not the only one regarding the eye pressure. It Arose when taking Orally and putting it on my face. I believe I connected it to K2/E also from other reports.