EstroBan - Dietary Supplement With Vitamins K2, A, D, E

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, Jan 24, 2014.

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Would you buy custom, liquid suplement with the 4 fat-soluble vitamins (K2, A, D, E)?

  1. No

    5 vote(s)
    3.2%
  2. Only if it costs less than $50 for 30 days supply

    14 vote(s)
    9.0%
  3. Only if it costs less than $40 for 30 days supply

    10 vote(s)
    6.4%
  4. Only if it costs less than $30 for 30 days supply

    37 vote(s)
    23.7%
  5. Only if it costs less than $20 for 30 days supply

    51 vote(s)
    32.7%
  6. Only if it costs less than $10 for 30 days supply

    39 vote(s)
    25.0%
  1. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    You could call it, EstrogenDown. :)

    edit: or EstroDown.
     
  2. BingDing

    BingDing Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I'd also like to try it, haidut. Keeping A on the low end seems like a good idea.

    How about Estrolase?
     
  3. HDD

    HDD Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I am interested.
     
  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Great points made by everyone in this thread! Thanks for contributing.
    So, in term of dosages the goal is to have a 1oz dropper bottle holding 30 days supply of the mix. Each daily dose (about 20 drops) will contain 5,000 IU of vitamin A (retinol acetate), 2,000 IU of vitamin D3, 2mg of vitamin K2 (MK-4, menatetrenone), and 200 IU of mixed tocopherol (70% gamma tocopherol). The sample bottles will have only 2mg vitamin K per serving so I can prepare more samples, but for the actual product I plan on having anywhere between 3mg and 5mg per dosage. I am still researching the "ideal" ratio of vitamin K to the other 3, so I will know more in a few days.
    All vitamins will be dissolved in organic olive oil to make the total contents exactly 1oz as the bottle requires. The above mentioned vitamin dosages I have seen many times recommended by Peat as good trade-off between safety and effectiveness, and OK for everyday use. Obviously there will be people that will need more or less than these doses, and that can be handled by taking more or less from the drops.
    The raw materials are on their way, so by Friday of next week I should have the sample product ready. The batch will probably have about 20 bottles so hopefully I will have enough for those interested. I apologize in advance if I run out. I suspect there will be some disappointed people if I can't send a sample to every volunteer:)
    Btw, I already have at least 4-5 other Peat-power supplements in mind, but let's see how this one goes first.
    Thanks again for the enthusiastic responses, it is very inspiring.
     
  5. superhuman

    superhuman Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Great, thanx a ton :D cant wait
     
  6. himsahimsa

    himsahimsa Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    The daily dosages you're suggesting seem reasonable so why dilute to 20 drops per dose? The average dropper bottle will go pretty quick at that rate and, counting drops gets tedious.
     
  7. 4peatssake

    4peatssake Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    :woo
    So excited to hear this as I've been thinking to ask about this possibility with your Vit B Energy Punch! ;)
    Thank you so much for doing all this!
     
  8. j.

    j. Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I would pay for a vitamin B mix, as I expect haidut to research whether niacinamide has to be balanced and such issues and make the mix accordingly.
     
  9. aquaman

    aquaman Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Sounds great, would love to test and be on it if it works.
     
  10. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    In regards to the dilution - 1oz is about 28g. Using water (or the oil solutions I plan on using for the vitamins) as a reference point - 20-22 drops equal 1g, so at 20 drops a day an 1oz bottle would last about 28-30 days, which is what the goal is - i.e. to have a supply for about a month. This is sort of an industry standard too (having a container last 1 month) and makes getting the COA easier (don't ask me why, i have no clue). Maybe I can have 2 versions - one regular dosage and lasting 30 days, and one higher dosage that can be taken once a week maybe.
    As far as the other supplements, I like the idea of vitamin B one. I have been researching niacinamide (B3) and thiamine(B1) for the last 5 years and in addition to being good energy boosters they have strong anti-cancer properties. Ray's last newsletter talks about the so called Histone De-ACetylase (HDAC) inhibitors and how they are a very promising new pathway for anti-cancer drugs effective against many cancers. Niacinamide happens to be one of the most powerful natural HDAC inhibitors, and B1 also has strong anti-cancer properties which I posted studies about some time ago. Combine that with aspirin and caffeine, B2, B6 and some magnesium and creatine and you have a true multi-blockbuster - i.e. carbon-dioxide booster, NAD+ booster, anti-cancer, anti-autoimmunity (B3 is used to restrain diseases such as lupus, and MS), anti skin aging and natural UV protection (aspirin, caffeine and B3), brain protection and memory enhancement (creatine raises IQ in human trials, niacinamide is in clinical trials for Alzheimers, magnesium enhances cognition), libido booster (magnesium lowers estrogen and raises dopamine, thiamine raises dopamine and lowers serotonin, B3 lowers serotonin), etc. Obviously, I won't be able to make claims about any of these conditions but I can certainly link to the studies, most of which are with humans and thus directly relevant.
    I have a bag full of ideas, but first let's see how that first supplement will do and take it from there:)
     
  11. SQu

    SQu Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I only just found this thread. Please put me down if possible! Thank you!
     
  12. cbar09

    cbar09 Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I would be very interested in this form of supplement. I will usually take most of these individually but often forget one or more on a daily basis.

    I've found an effective method for taking multiple fat solubles is mixing the drops with whipped refined coconut oil - just whip the oil with an electric beater until it's consistency is very soft and spreadable. It's almost like using a moisturizer and you can control the vitamin content.
     
  13. loess

    loess Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    This is an awesome effort, haidut. I sourced all of these vitamins individually a while back and have a supply that should last another couple of months, so I will defer to others if you don't have enough to distribute on this first go'round...but I'm definitely interested in obtaining some of whatever you come up with. Thanks for getting the ball rolling!
     
  14. Suikerbuik

    Suikerbuik Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Just be careful please with 'steroid' D, all I can say. Even more after today's resulst (see below)

    Although Peat say's there's a number to strive for (as I understand). The man got brilliant ideas and theories, certainly useful as he sees an organism as a whole and in perspective of the whole. Truely amazing as many people (esp. 'medicals' and scientists) lose these basic things out of sight/ never been trained to see them. But it's also based on what we know today and how Peat thinks about things. We only know so little.. and is what we think we know, right?

    I am not saying it will be bad for everyone (although it's without doubt better not to supplement - for everyone). Nor I am saying that everyone has such a concversion as I have, but got some bloodwork back today. 25D 15 nmol/L (extremely low!), 1,25D 150 pmol/L (still way too high).

    Just be skeptical. Only your heart will tell if your doing the right things!
     
  15. j.

    j. Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    This is thread hijacking. The thread is about a supplement, not about vitamin D effects. Open your own thread to trash vitamin D and your we can't never know nothing bull****. Maybe you yourself can't know anything, others do.
     
  16. Suikerbuik

    Suikerbuik Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Well.. you see any side effects of vitamin D being mentioned? I don't actually.

    I don't want to insult anyone, nor question Ray Peat. I am a fan but not following everything blindly or relying on simple statemnts - again it's just not so simple. And If you think others know anything, please stop fooling yourself..

    I wanted to give input to this 'new' supplement (vitamin D is involved in case you didn't know..) Only to get YOUR health possible better. Anyway if it's not appreciated nor being taken seriously (if only for at least 10 seconds ;)). I am fine with that, not saying this for myself.. Time will tell what the truth really is.

    Oh btw please re-read what you say "we can't never know nothing" and what I stated. This is how nonsense in being introduced in the world.

    Anyway cheers mate. And sorry Haidut wasn't my intention to spam your thread! Keep up your good work!
     
  17. j.

    j. Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Your input has very little value. It might have more value if you research the topic before you debate it. From the stuff you posted, it's very clear you have extremely little understanding of vitamin D. For example, your claim that 1,25D is the more valuable measurement is known to be false by people who barely researched the topic. It's important for people with kidney problems who can't convert vitamin D, but the more relevant measurement for normal people is 25(OH)D.

    In this video, at 24:54 Dr Holick highlights a study that shows that when blood 25(OH)D is 10 ng/ml or less, PTH levels are highest. As 25(OH)D is increased, the PTH levels drop rapidly until about 30-40 ng/ml, where PTH levels stop dropping. So your statement about PTH not being regulated by 25(OH)D is at best misleading.

    What an idiotic statement.

    We don't know anything but you can make such general, very hard-to-prove claim with confidence? :roll:
     
  18. bradley

    bradley Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I'm in.
     
  19. Suikerbuik

    Suikerbuik Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Info about vitamine D metabolites, the vitamin D receptor and relation with PTH and calcium can be found at google.

    As you undoubtedly already know does PTH regulate (with other hormones) the calcium concentration in the blood. But it looks like that vitamin D has very little effect on calcium uptake.

    25D seem to do very little for calcium uptake
    another one

    So just like Peat says – get enough calcium! In my opinion getting enough calcium is far more safe than supplementing with a ‘hormone’. The way 25D influences PTH transcription is not by 25D but by 1,25D activating the Vitamine D receptor leading to PTH repression.

    And \there’s more.
    result not cause

    Because low 25D is not a cause but rather a result of dis-ease and because 25D is immunosuppressive I prefer not to supplement with it, as the immunesystemis one of our most impressive and important system especially in dis-ease, and since in dis-ease there is not a single disregulation present but a lot:
    see figure 1

    Mitochondria can also be influenced by brain activity rather than physical disfunction so in some people here that's were the problem may also lie instead of pure physical mitochondrial disfunction. See also what I wrote about 1,25D and the possibilty of influencing our thyroid- and corticosteroid receptors earlier, but now we are going too far off topic..

    My apolgies again Haidut. Will be my last answer on this thread ;)
     
  20. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    So, the samples are ready. I have about 20 bottle to send freely to people to try. About 17 people responded in the thread expressing interest in getting one, so I I sent a PM to each one of you.
    The supplement features are as follows. Solid white, plastic (HDPE) bottle with built-in dropper. The bottle holds 10ml/10cc of supplement. About 25 drops equal 1ml/1cc, so this means that in 10ml/10cc you have 250 drops. We made the supplement with the goal of lasting a month (31 days), so this means that a daily dose would be about 8 drops. In each daily does (8 drops) you have the following ingredients:

    1. Vitamin A (retinol acetate): 5,000 IU
    2. Vitamin D3: 1,500 IU
    3. Vitamin K2 (MK-4, menatetrenone): 2mg
    4. Vitamin E (mixed tocopherols, high gamma content): 200 IU.
    5. Some filler liquid consisting exclusively of organic olive oil and organic coconut oil.

    NOTHING ELSE!!! We wanted this to be as clean a supplement as possible. When you get your bottle, and before every time you take your daily dosage, I recommend shaking the bottle for about 5-10 seconds since some separation of supplements may occur while the bottle is at rest. I emphasize "may" since it did not occur in my samples but it is possible with liquids of different density and molar mass. Also, it's probably best if you keep the bottle int he fridge even though the vitamin E should protect the other vitamins and the fat from oxidation even at room temperature.
    Once everybody gets their bottle, please share some experience with the forum.
    Thanks to everybody for the encouragement!
     
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