EstroBan - Dietary Supplement With Vitamins K2, A, D, E

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, Jan 24, 2014.

?

Would you buy custom, liquid suplement with the 4 fat-soluble vitamins (K2, A, D, E)?

  1. No

    5 vote(s)
    2.8%
  2. Only if it costs less than $50 for 30 days supply

    17 vote(s)
    9.6%
  3. Only if it costs less than $40 for 30 days supply

    11 vote(s)
    6.2%
  4. Only if it costs less than $30 for 30 days supply

    41 vote(s)
    23.2%
  5. Only if it costs less than $20 for 30 days supply

    60 vote(s)
    33.9%
  6. Only if it costs less than $10 for 30 days supply

    43 vote(s)
    24.3%
  1. haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    11,407
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Through my business connections I realized that I could get access to lower cost, high purity bulk quantities of the fat soluble vitamins K (MK-4, menatetrenone), vitamin E (mixed tocopherols, high gamma), vitamin A (as palmitate and/or acetate), and vitamin D. Since these are accessible only if you have a company and have signed a distribution agreement, most people on the forum will not be able to order directly in bulk. However, I have been doing my own home-made supplement with all 4 of these vitamins in a solution of organic olive oil and refined coconut oil, and was thinking of maybe extending that to the rest of the forum members. The supplement would have the following profile:

    *****************************************
    Serving size - 8 drops
    Servings per container - 30
    Each serving contains:

    Vitamin A - 5,000 IU
    Vitamin D - 2,000 IU
    Vitamin E - 65mg (100 IU)
    Vitamin K2 (MK-4) - 2mg

    Other ingredients: organic MCT oil
    ******************************************

    Would there be interest if I send some free samples to members of the forum to try? If the supplement passes all tests (both by members of the forum and I get a legitimate Certificate of Analysis), would there be interest in buying it?
    I would sell it a cost, just like Ray is selling his Progest-E. I don't plan on striking it rich selling supplements. My day business (IT consulting) is what would be paying the bills. So, please take the poll if you are interested. This will allow me to decide if it's worth starting the manufacturing process.
    Thanks in advance.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    9,938
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I would definitely try them. Being able to get a cheaper source but still with quality helps out a lot :)
     
  3. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    11,407
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D


    Thanks Charlie!
    Let's see how many other forum members would be interested and I will get some dropper bottles and ask a lab to prepare some free samples. I am thinking of having each daily dose (I guess it would take about 5 drops) supply 1000 IU of vitamin D3, 5000 IU of vitamin A, 1mg of K2 (menatetrenone) and 200 IU of mixed tocopherols. Obviously, people that want higher dosage would take multiple doses, but based on the studies I've seen and what people have hear from Ray I think this is a good starting ratio. Maybe after people use the free samples we can get some feedback and see if there is a need for increase/decrease of each vitamin.
     
  4. juanitacarlos

    juanitacarlos Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    417
    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I would definitely be interested.
     
  5. 4peatssake

    4peatssake Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    2,044
    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Count me in!
     
  6. Dan Wich

    Dan Wich Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Messages:
    1,328
    Gender:
    Male
    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I would be interested as well!

    Would you consider adding enough profit to make up for your trouble? I imagine there could be enough demand in the Peat-world that you wouldn't want to be handling hundreds of shipments out of kindness...though maybe you're a nicer person than me :lol:

    Or maybe you're thinking of keeping it very limited/quiet?
     
  7. jyb

    jyb Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,674
    Location:
    UK
    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    What's your source of K2 and E? How do they compare to the relatively pure (little added ingredients) existing products? I think K2 and E are almost always soy derived.
     
  8. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    11,407
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I was thinking of preparing a batch of maybe 30-50 dropper bottles with labels. Then I would mail them to the people in the forum that would want to try. I am willing to eat the cost of initial trial b/c without it I would not know how much interest there is and if people would like the product. If the reviews are good, then I can invest in more bulk product and hiring a lab to do a certificate of analysis (COA).
    As far as the source - for all vitamins I would use a known vendor like Sigma-Aldrich, which can provide products with 99%+ purity. I have several suppliers, and they are all competitors so hopefully I can get them to bid with each other so I can get the lowest price:):
    Like I said - I am not trying to become a millionaire doing this. If it can cover its cost of production it would be a nice project for me and my wife, who is a Yale-educated biochemist btw and is looking for something interesting to do while staying at home and looking after our 3-month old:): I have been bombarding her constantly with Ray's ideas and I think she has been "converted" enough that now she wants to try it. She is using my supplement for pregnancy-related cosmetic issues like stretch marks and facial skin health.
    Also, her buddy from Yale (who is also a biochemist) is fascinated by Ray's ideas and what I have been flooding her with over the last 2 years. So, you can count her in as well. Her husband would be very grateful that his wife is doing something with her degree instead of sitting bored at home:): At least you'll all know that there are "qualified" people working on the product you are using.
    Ah, enough babbling on my end. I will see how the poll does in the next week or so and give it a try.
    Thanks for the great responses so far!
     
  9. Blossom

    Blossom Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Messages:
    5,183
    Gender:
    Female
    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I'm interested.
     
  10. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    9,938
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I am stoked. :P I have been needing to get vitamin K and D but kept pushing it off. I think once I get some good K it might help me out.
     
  11. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    11,407
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    So, another thing that came to mind.

    PRODUCT NAME
    1. In one of my previous posts I used TetraTitans in reference
    to the 4 fat-soluble vitamins and I got some private comments from people saying they liked the name. Why Titans? Because the fat soluble vitamins is what Ray consistently mentions in terms of supplements. As you know he is not very big on supplements, but when it comes to things like niacinamide (B3) and vitamins K2, A, and E there is really no avoiding supplementation if you need the quantities used in research studies. You can use liver for vitamin A, but vitamin K contents is in the mcg range. So, one can say the 4 fat-soluble vitamins are a cornerstone of strong metabolism and Peat philosophy. Hence, the four (4) Titans or TetraTitans.

    2. Second name I was thinking about was EstroBan. As you may know already, all 4 of the fat soluble vitamins have direct anti-estrogen action. Vitamins A, D and K are potent inhibitors of aromatase (the enzyme converting testosterone into estrogen) - so they will directly lower synthesis of new estrogen. For more information just search PubMed for combinations such as "menatetrenone aromatase", "retinol aromatase", "retinoic acid aromatase", "cholecalciferol aromatase", etc. Ray even said in one of his email exchanges that all 4 of the fat soluble vitamins have anti-estrogen action but he did not specify exactly what the mechanism was. Finally, vitamin E has been extensively covered by one of Ray's articles and he says that it is anti-estrogenic by working in a direction opposite to the one of estrogen. However, what Ray does not mention in his articles is that ALL of the four tocopherols (alpha, beta, gamma, and delta) work directly like "estrogen receptor antagonists". I don't believe in the receptor theory either, but I think it serves a valid purpose for the point I am trying to make about vitamin E. I posted a study on the "estrogen receptor antagonist" property of tocopherols on the forum. So, tocopherols will help antagonize the effects of the already existing estrogen while the other 3 vitamins will inhibit the synthesis of new estrogen. For a reference point, please keep in mind that there is currently only ONE available/approved estrogen receptor antagonist drug on the market called Fulvestrant, with a myriad of bad side effects and very, very expensive.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulvestrant

    So, the mixed tocopherols are a priceless and unique gift in the sense that they are a powerful, non-toxic alternative to Fulvestrant, and combined with the other 3 fat soluble vitamins we get a powerful anti-estrogenic supplement. Hence, the name EstroBan.

    I am open to any comments/suggestions/critique. Let me know what you think about the names.
     
  12. argentum

    argentum New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Definitely interested!!!
     
  13. juanitacarlos

    juanitacarlos Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    417
    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Pleeease pick EstroBan as the product name so we can call you Pablo EstroBan - the king of aromatase inhibiters.
     
  14. superhuman

    superhuman Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,015
    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    OH YEAH im for sure in bro. I would buy it in a heartbeat or try it or whatever :)
     
  15. Suikerbuik

    Suikerbuik Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2014
    Messages:
    636
    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I've been reading Peat's articles for some time now and couldn't resist making an account now for a reply.

    Thought about this myself too and it sounds good! A, K2, and natural E (palm oil?) would be great imo, only thing I am against is vitamin D.

    First Vitamin D isn't a vitamin it's a seco-steroid. Second more and more studies coming out now don't find any benefit from supplementing with vitamin D nor they suggest against because of the billion dollar industrie behind it. And third they only measure 25OH vitamin D which is indeed being found too low usually, but that's not a good measurement! You should look for the 1,25(OH)2 Vitamin D (the active molecule) this blood test is quite difficult as 1,25D is fragile and measures in the pmol/L or pg/mL range. In my case. 25D vitamin D is too low but the 1,25D way too high, even in the ranges that this may lead to bone resorption! And I am surely not an exception as most people with chronic disease have their metabolites ut of whack and should becareful with vitamin D.

    more in dept information: click here
    I know many advices you can question at first and when googling many unfounded opinions will be found. But there's defintely much truth in there although it may not fit at first, anyway, sugar is also doomed in mainstream nowadays. See the possible effect on our receptors. 1,25D may inhibit thyroid alpha and beta receptor and my interfere with our glucocorticoid (cortisol) receptor too. This can explain why people don't feel good on hormones or they don't work. Either it may explain adrenal fatigue in greater depth?? (my hypothesis)

    Oh and by the way. When you're not having chronic disease. Normall light exposure is enough for vitamin D along with liver twice a week. And for the ones the use vitamin and feel a great benefit from it, that's normall but isn't lasting after months/years. Levels above >20ng/mL are becoming immunosupressive. I Know peat is against inflammation but he also seem to be keen of a good working immunesystem (lymphocytes).
     
  16. j.

    j. Guest

    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I suggest EstroSlayer.
     
  17. j.

    j. Guest

    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Regarding vitamin D, people here follow Peat, and he says a good goal is 50 ng/ml. This makes sense in the context of an appropriate consumption of vitamin A, including beef liver or equivalent once a week. The toxic effects require a higher dose to appear once you have appropriate consumption of vitamin A.

    I think it's easy to argue for the 50 ng/ml goal. There is a study that showed 35 ng/ml minimized PTH. There is another one showing that as you increase vitamin D consumption, the average amount of protein in the urine decreases until reaching 40 ng/ml of vitamin D. So if 40 ng/ml is a good goal for the average population, which is likely vitamin A deficient, people with good vitamin A consumption would probably have a higher ideal dose.

    That said, I live in a sunny area and don't take vit D supplements.
     
  18. Mittir

    Mittir Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,034
    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I believe the whole chain of misinformation comes from a 2010 westonprice.com article on
    vitamin D interaction with vitamin K and vitamin A. In the case of vitamin A ,study
    was based on vitamin D in calcitriol form, not the cholecalciferol D3 we take as
    supplement. It seemed like author did not know the difference between these two form of vitamin D until someone pointed that out in the comment section.
    Low calcium diet increases calcitriol ((abbreviated 1,25-(OH)2D3 or simply 1,25(OH)2D).
    Vitamin D experts recommend total 25(OH)D test.

    This youtube video by Dr Sarah Booth explains interaction between D and K
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgfhS1-3QUU
    There are several informative youtube videos by real vitamin D experts.
    Dr Michael Holick
    Dr Robert Heaney
    Dr Reinhold Vieth
     
  19. Suikerbuik

    Suikerbuik Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2014
    Messages:
    636
    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    I understand K, A, and E are important and work in conjunction (reason I responded to this). But why would one rely on an inactive metabolite? It's the 1,25D that regulates genes (calcium metabolism, 'autoimmune' reversal, ...). For example PTH is being regulated by 1,25D and not 25D.

    I also think 'vitamin' D produced in the skin under the influence of the sun is different as an oral dose - people with high exposure to sun still have relatively low circulating D.

    Anyway I am just not convinced 25D is the one to look after. But will go after these sources if i haven't seen them already, thanks ;) .
     
  20. aguilaroja

    aguilaroja Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    634
    Re: Custom, liquid dietary supplement with vitamins K2, A, D

    Yes I am interested and would order immediately. I've done things with individual liquids, but good quality and ease of less bottles would help.

    I'd be a little cautious about keeping the vitamin A portion on the lower end, both due to Dr. Peat's cautions and my own reading.

    In terms of actual relief in myself and others, I have found the vitamin D viewpoints of Veith, Hollick and others more useful than the WAPF and other critiques.

    I liked the Pablo Estroban joke. I wish I had as funny a suggestion.

    Re:Peat Repleting Potion, maybe?
     
Loading...