Escaping Learned Helplessness

[narouz]

Personally, I enjoy a good hijacked thread
every now and again.

 

[Makrosky]

Edit: Agree with the comment below about trembling being a contracted and tense state. I don't think that's beneficial. The rocking exercises I am referring to are performed in an open, relaxed state.

It doesn't feel contracted nor tense AT ALL. Just the opposite.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I won't do it for learned helplessness, I will do it because it sounds neat

 

[jaa]

Edit: Agree with the comment below about trembling being a contracted and tense state. I don't think that's beneficial. The rocking exercises I am referring to are performed in an open, relaxed state.

It doesn't feel contracted nor tense AT ALL. Just the opposite.

Sorry for the hijack!

My mistake I was thinking of shivering. I can kind of feel how self induced trembling would expand and stretch everything out including the diaphram.

 

[pboy]

so you do all those things, and if your having problem in life, they still remain. You actually have to overcome problems, then you wont have to do anything silly or forced, relaxing is then natural. The drowning rat could do all that stuff, shivering, diaphragmatic breathing...its still drowning, and its only goal really is to get out

anything that gives you good feelings...within your body, or that inspires hope...and lets you feel a connection to something greater..like that you can do what you need to do, facilitates you acting on what you need to act on...in that sense anything that produces good inspiriing feelings or lets you see life in a way that you know you can overcome things, that its a joy beyond, is helpful and makes everything better along the way. But say that's all you did, and never made progress on the real things that needed to be done, even those things you were doing would become stale and ineffective. Its a dance where you utilize inspiration to facilitate your acting on what needs to be done

 

[jaa]

I agree.

 

[Sheik]

it takes a LOT more...than shaking your body to overcome helpless state feelings, lol...

That's as bad as AA telling people they are powerless over their addiction.

 

[pboy]

lol

 

[narouz]

I won't do it for learned helplessness, I will do it because it sounds neat

That's the spirit!
Don't let Learned Helplessness monomania
make you helpless!!

 

[narouz]

learned helplessness isn't just a simple thing, its...an ancient problem as old as mankind, its the hero's journey, its whats in myth and religions, its life. Its overcoming maya, loki, the trickster, devil, whatever you want to call it, its overcoming feelings of faithlessness via knowing through experience. Its the firewalk. Its the 40 days under the tree, in the desert, whatever...its your life.

pboy, I've enjoyed your posts in this thread,
and I agree.

One of the amazing things about Peat, for me,
is how he brings emotional or even spiritual matters
into the physical, biochemical realm.
For instance,
looking back over my life,
things I'd tended to try to understand
by framing them in emotional or intellectual or spiritual contexts,
I now often tend to see in Peatian nutritional, bio-energetic ways.

But I think this can be carried too far.

Those religious, spiritual, mythic contexts you touch on, pboy--
Buddhism, native American mythology, Christian narratives--
they are pretty absent in PeatDom.
I don't think he puts much stock in them.
His scientific outlook and his general skepticism
don't seem to leave much room for them.

So, to me, in PeatDom,
there seems like there's a bit of a void in those spiritual/mythic areas.
And to me,
it seems like we here in PeatLand
try to compensate for that absence
by placing great emphasis upon some of the few elements of Peat
which have spiritual or mythic resonance.
Like "Learned Helplessness."

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Peat fan.
I'm just saying
I think we have a tendency here,
whenever there arises some existential problem
of human suffering or oppression or frustration...

...out pops "Learned Helplessness."
The Peat Forum's answer to everything that ails mankind!

Again: don't mistake where I'm coming from.
I think the notion of Learned Helplessness is a very valuable way of looking at problems in life.
But sometimes, even when one tries all of the nutritional tools in the Peat toolbox,
things still suck.
(I might think of a more high-flown poetic way of putting that,
but...I guess that's the essential thought. )

So, just saying:
there is a lot of cool knowledge in the historical wisdom traditions
and in the other areas of human understanding
beyond the lone idea of Learned Helplessness,
and the relatively narrow field of "fighting back" via Peat nutritional ideas....

 

[pboy]

I agree...I kind of get the gist of what people really mean and try to respond to that. Youre right, learned helplessness is just a huge broad term...general term, and people lump everything not corrected by diet into thats in Peat speech cause that's the only thing they have to go on. Id venture to say though, like ive said before...and peat alludes to other things like nurturing envorionment...speaks of rat studies, but still. The internal...non physical...well everything is connected, but the things that have to do with existential, personal, emotional, experiences, the human experience...and also just environmental toxins, people, situations...both of those categories of things, are as important as diet...diet is HUGE and is the foundation of the others, everything affects each other thing, but you cannot expect your suffering to stop, whatever it is, via diet alone. I know cause ive been in various situations having had the same diet, and a lottt of things change, including digestion and therefore everything, sleep, dreams...overall happiness, how inspired, creative..rate of growth, courage and reliance to try new things ...all change, even potentially physical appearance, just from changing where I lived and have worked, while diet was the same the whole time. And often times, for most people, many of the situations ive been in...they'd get hopeless, bitter, seretonened out, or sell out basically...but what got me through them, was a faith and knowing, and internal wiring, based on what id been through and experienced before and had come to insights about that I knew had to be true...so even in harsh situations, against the grain, id execute what I knew I had to, through whatever suctioning energies were happening, and have gotten out of most of them, and what I believed and knew ended up being true and right. So again...all 3 aspects of life effect everything. That's why I sometimes make jokes at the expense of some of the things people say, its as if they literally think a supplement is going to solve all their life's problems

 

[Nicholas]

I use TRE a few times a week - partly because it *is* just neat....but i began using it because my body had become disfigured with stress....and it was pretty incredible how it opened it up. But, as others have mentioned, the body will just return if the bigger picture is not there. I do barefooting for similar purposes - just therapeutic - oh, it certainly reduces stress and feels energizing, but you have to keep going back. wait, this sounds a lot like how people use thyroid. : )

i believe we all have a specific and eternal purpose, but that purpose is not to be found in our physical bodies - they are just dying and wasting away and are only temporary and instructive. nevertheless, by taking care of our bodies we are also being grateful and dilligent with what we have been given. it's an extension of taking care of the spirit.

 

[Makrosky]

Just to let you know, I agree very much with the last three messages, pboy, narouz and Nicholas.

I would disagree with the statement that everybody has "a mission" in this world. It's romantic and new age. And can create a big share of moral misery to those who would just be happy with life as it is. If they get infected with that idea, I mean.

One has to be very careful with modern spirituality because there often are hidden insidious messages to make you guilty and stuff... It's kind of a refined christian guilt.

 

[narouz]

Just to let you know, I agree very much with the last three messages, pboy, narouz and Nicholas.

I would disagree with the statement that everybody has "a mission" in this world. It's romantic and new age. And can create a big share of moral misery to those who would just be happy with life as it is. If they get infected with that idea, I mean.

One has to be very careful with modern spirituality because there often are hidden insidious messages to make you guilty and stuff... It's kind of a refined christian guilt.

I guess, if one buys into any narrative of achievement,
that is a worldly kind of achievement,
material achievement...

...I guess that can always be manipulated in unhelpful (or even downright evil) ways
by the powers that be.

 

[narouz]

That's why I sometimes make jokes at the expense of some of the things people say, its as if they literally think a supplement is going to solve all their life's problems

The thing about PeatWorld is
that some supplement might really make a significant difference!

More likely a consistent pattern of eating might make a big difference.

And then there is the whole non-nutrient side of the universe
that you evoke so well.
That is a huge side.

 

[narouz]

I've stored up some other quibbles over the years
about the Learned Helplessness thing.
Here's one of them:

Now, I don't want to debate the politics of this,
at least not in this part of the forum.
I know some Libertarians who are nice people.
I will just make this objective observation:
this forum seems to attract a lot of folks of the Libertarian or Randian schools of political thought.
I guess this is because Peat is seen as a Maverick,
and Libertarians and Randians seem to self-identify as Mavericks themselves.
Also, similarly, Peat is seen as anti-estabishment.
He has said he wishes to dis-establish the medical-"science"-pharma-corporate power structure.
And Peat definitely is at least skeptical, if not just plain cynical, about most governments,
including the US government.
So those ideas ring pleasingly in Libertarian ears, I think.

(Again--not getting into whether Libertarianism is good or bad.
Just trying to reflect some general, objective impressions of the forum's membership
and political leanings.)

From those workpoints,
many come to the conclusion that Peat is a Libertarian.
This is a leap that I think is unfounded and that I am analyzing a bit in this post.
I think those who make that leap often use the Learned Helplessness view
to justify and reinforce the leap
connecting Peat to Libertarianism.

From a Libertarian point of view
the Learned Helplessness idea is pure catnip.
It is a diagnosis of the human condition which fits well into their political ideas.
In short,
it seems that Libertarians generally see governments as the main affliction of mankind.
It is government which teaches, in their view, Learned Helplessness.
And so the thinking goes,
if you get rid of government,
you get rid of Learned Helplessness.

So, thinking about a political issue, wealth inequality for instance,
Libertarians look at, say, the popular charts on YouTube about Wealth Inequality
and turn to the Peatian Learned Helplessness idea.
From their perspective, using the Learned Helplessness diagnosis writ large,
Libertarians will argue that the only reason the 90% are suffering from lack of wealth
is because they have been taught or have osmosed Learned Helplessness
from Big Nanny State Guvment.
And if we can just get rid of those governments,
then people will stop being cowardly, spineless, slavish, uncreative, unproductive, shiftless, lazy
wimps,
and then the wealth will flow,
and all will be right with the world.

Again, not commenting here upon the value, good or bad, of Libertarian thinking.
Just noting--because this is a thread on Learned Helplessness--
that Learned Helplessness is sometimes generalized here,
in a submerged way,
into a political idea.

 

[goodandevil]

Inner famiky systems is the.only counseling method that's worked for me. Broadly speaking, in works.in two ways: by being more convincing and logical.than the expla.ation of why is helpless, and.two, because it corresponds to the actual physical architecture of the mind. There's no happy chemical per se, but rather a happy network where tbe rest of the mind interfaces with hippocampus, frontal lobes, etc in a patterened manner based on stimuli. In otber words, we have multiple personalitjes which are actually different patterns.of the various structures of the brain. Most of these are developed in childhood and we learn to supress them. But with inner family systems and a mind open enough to.explore and test the possibility of multiple personalities, each part can be.recognized and be made to felt safe. Then once all the personalities.come.out, the real self emerges as a leader or negotiator between the parts. Jts really helped me personally. Pete gerlacb has a free website and videos, but there is a proper book.for.therapists as well from.the person that originally developed ifs. It bas excellent reviews on amazon, and so.does tbe pete gerlach series of books.

 

[onioneyedox]

Just thought of this song. I guess it is so great because it can be interpreted to so many human struggles. We need to free our minds

 

[halken]

pboy owns this thread.

 

[narouz]

pboy owns this thread.

"owning" is infra dig to pboy,
I'd have to guess.