Escaping Learned Helplessness

[Such_Saturation]

If I eat sugar before bed, I can't get out of bed in the morning. Which eventually is worse than having short nights.

That's because your adrenal/ACTH output is too low according to the circadian cycle.

Which is what I explained above regarding sleep downregulating adrenal strength and sugar doing the same.

But then why do you suggest sugar consumption before bed?

You didn't seem to read my posts.

In some people sugar backfills the stress pathways, in others it mimics adrenal hormones (maintain blood sugar) while downregulating adrenal output.

So you mean there is an amount of sugar before bed that in some people might give benefits without compromising their ability to wake up in the morning?

 

[Such_Saturation]

Okay but you can only do that because you've loaded up on sugar in the past, I think. You will be living on borrowed time.

That's the point of doing it. It is borrowed time but enlarged adrenals will have greater margin for output.

So do you suggest doing it in waves? High glycogen and low glycogen?

 

[pboy]

ive heard that even a few seconds in the presence of Ray Peat graces one and cures learned helplessness, pilgrims flock from all over the world

Haha, I can find the funny side of it but at the same time pretty annoying all the trolling when people are trying to solve things. I guess it's different if you have recovered and are in good health but frustrating to see you take the piss most of the time.

why you watching me take a piss? ok then...your turn, go for it

im just being funny and playful man, no offense intended

 

[EIRE24]

ive heard that even a few seconds in the presence of Ray Peat graces one and cures learned helplessness, pilgrims flock from all over the world

Haha, I can find the funny side of it but at the same time pretty annoying all the trolling when people are trying to solve things. I guess it's different if you have recovered and are in good health but frustrating to see you take the piss most of the time.

why you watching me take a piss? ok then...your turn, go for it

im just being funny and playful man, no offense intended

I know dude, that's why I said I can see the funny side of it.

 

[Amazoniac]

A lot of things have been said in this threat that are partially true or not enough to understand.
Greg said good things, but we have to see what is learned helplessness.
Learned: something happened and you learned something through the experience.
Helplessness: you could do nothing. overwhelmed.
The 2 together: your system did not recover properly, and you think & feel that you will be helpless again.
Diminish your resilience.

What I feel like correcting and precising so that it can be true and understandable:


Yes and no. No in wild animals for example.
"trauma" can mean "traumatic accident", this is an event.
Then, "trauma" often means "the consequence of the accident", the damage done in the system.

So the sentence I put in bold letters is not precise, it will be more acurate to say:
"It is when the nervous system cannot recover after having been overwhelmed that we see trauma consequences to the nervous system. This can be reestablished by completing the orienting and defensing responses that were not completed when the system was overwhelmed."

What describe helplessness in what Greg said?
Freeze.
And freeze occurs after a big activation, and this activation has not been able to solve the problem.
Freeze COVERS the big activation to paralyze it. When you REALLY come out of freeze, the activation is still there and has to be calmed down by a physiological evacuation from the nervous system.

Animals do this by trembling and we are able to do it as well. For many reasons, we usually do not do it properly. Trembling is not enough, taking care of the problem is not enough, resourcing by meditation, yoga etc, is not enough. The 2 together plus the ability to contain it without being overwhelmed again, is the path.



Yes, when we are helpless, we fail in all this. But this is frozen in time because we do not descharge as readily and as easily as other animals. WE have an accumulation throough life. And this is not only about what we think is trauma. All little stresses function in the same way. We do not usually see it in ourselves, as we are used to ourselves.

But just watch at others. Each time someone reactionate in a surprising way or too much to what you said for example, it is because it touches something the mind has forgotten, but the body still reacts and speaks. We think we react to the present, but the past is there as well. The famous "here and now" is very difficult to reach because it is beyond our conscious efforts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmF52x3EJso
It reminded me of this video, had to find it. Watch until the end.

 

[Amazoniac]

@Xisca (in case you didn't receive the alert)

 

[Xisca]

Super good video thanks ! I started to look at 2 places, the breathing and the eyes. You can see when the breathing resumes, and the change in the glow, because the frozen large pupila reduces and shines less.

Then the shaking is obvious and it takes place in the legs, this animal is a runner and that's what was frozen, and the mouth.

Then the body can move and it does super well!

(I have started a new thread about freeze/helplessness, and thanks for helping the alert....)

 

[Amazoniac]

Next time you watch a prank on a group of people, notice how the weaker one take much longer to recover. Regardless if the reaction is positive or negative, after revealing, people in a good condition move on quickly and the tolerance is higher; whereas people in a compromised condition sometimes get to the point of freezing or refusing the reveal of the prank..
#xiscathawingservices

 

[Wolf]

My .02
Odansetron orally dissolving tablet works where the standard pill does not and more rapidly brings to a halt the fear and paralysis of old mental issues cropping up. This semester of school I'm realizing how stupid I was for trying to go to school for two years while getting progressively sicker until I couldn't go anymore.

 

[golder]

My .02
Odansetron orally dissolving tablet works where the standard pill does not and more rapidly brings to a halt the fear and paralysis of old mental issues cropping up. This semester of school I'm realizing how stupid I was for trying to go to school for two years while getting progressively sicker until I couldn't go anymore.

What dosage of ondasteron did you find useful here, and how long thereafter did you take it after you had broken out of your rut? Thank you!

 

[Wolf]

What dosage of ondasteron did you find useful here, and how long thereafter did you take it after you had broken out of your rut? Thank you!

1mg.
The odt variety at 4mg was incredibly strong and helped more than anything.
It’s effects are transient at first but over time gives you that inability to experience learned helplessness without having taken it for some time.

 

[deliciousfruit]

Tried 1mg ondansetron, made my depression much worse and triggered uncontrollable crying