Energin - Liquid B-Complex Vitamin Mix

[Jared]

@haidut
I've been adding my energin to my milk in the morning for convenience, however, as it gets colder out I like to heat it up instead of drinking it cold. Would this affect the energin in any detrimental way? I try to keep it under 130 degrees fahrenheit.

 

[Scenes]

@Mito
Example:

Intestinal Dysbiosa and Biotin Deprivata Induce Alopecia through Overgrowth of Lactobacillus murinus in Mice

"The gut microbiota impacts on the pathophysiology of extra-intestinal tissues, including the skin. Here, we demonstrated that gut dysbiosis, induced by treatment with certain antibiotics, impaired biotin biosynthesis by the gut microbiota. Although reduced biotin synthesis by the gut microbiota was not immediately pathogenic if biotin was supplemented from dietary sources, lack of dietary biotin in antibiotic-treated, dysbiotic mice led to systemic biotin deficiency, resulting in the development of alopecia.

Gut microbiota synthesizes and supplies many essential B-group vitamins, including biotin (Hill, 1997, Singh et al., 2014). Bacteroides spp. overexpress the genes encoding four enzymes in the biotin-biosynthesis pathway (COG0132, COG0156, COG0161, and COG0502) (Arumugam et al., 2011, Sugahara et al., 2015), while other commensal bacteria, such as the Lactobacillus species, lack these biotin-synthesis genes and therefore fail to generate biotin. Notably, despite the inability to synthesize biotin, these bacteria can consume biotin supplied from the diet and/or from other bacteria such as Bacteroides. The balance between biotin-producing and -consuming bacteria thus controls the amount of luminal biotin available to the host. In the current study, we identified L. murinus in mice with biotin deficiency-induced alopecia as an “obligate biotin reducer”. Although L. murinus lacks biotin-synthesis genes and therefore fails to generate biotin, it may nevertheless utilize biotin for its own growth. Indeed, the strain of L. murinus that we have isolated from alopecia mice can consume biotin for its growth in vitro, although in vitro reduction of biotin might not resemble the ecology of this bacterium in vivo. Mice deprived of external sources of biotin exhibit substantial amounts of fecal biotin because these mice can still utilize biotinylated proteins as a reservoir for biotin and secrete biotin into the gut and urine. Domination of L. murinus as a result of vancomycin treatment thus reduced the availability of luminal biotin, which in turn perturbed the biotin-recycling system in the gut and affected its systemic availability, with consequent impacts on skin physiology. Vancomycin-treated mice, which did not develop alopecia, exhibit a slight decrease of biotin in feces, but maintain a serum biotin level. These data indicate that the serum biotin level reflects alopecia symptoms. Importantly, supplementation of biotin via a systemic route bypassed the dysbiosis-induced decreased bioavailability of biotin in the gut and restored hair growth."​

I'm actually getting paid to post this. Topical industry.

Topical biotin please @haidut

 

[haidut]

@haidut
I've been adding my energin to my milk in the morning for convenience, however, as it gets colder out I like to heat it up instead of drinking it cold. Would this affect the energin in any detrimental way? I try to keep it under 130 degrees fahrenheit.

If it is kept under 150 degrees there should be no issues. I get reports from people putting in their coffee, tea, and other hot liquids and they seem to be getting the same effects.

 

[haidut]

Topical biotin please @haidut

Why does it need to be a separate product? There is biotin in Energin already.

 

[Jared]

If it is kept under 150 degrees there should be no issues. I get reports from people putting in their coffee, tea, and other hot liquids and they seem to be getting the same effects.

Great! Thanks

 

[haidut]

Just a quick note about a change in Energin. Due to relentless lobbying by @Amazoniac and a few others, as well as recent Peat interviews where he mentions the benefits of vitamin B5, we added it to Energin.

 

[Amazoniac]

Just a quick note about a change in Energin. Due to relentless lobbying by @Amazoniac and a few others, as well as recent Peat interviews where he mentions the benefits of vitamin B5, we added it to Energin.

Savage.

I was surprised recently when I decided to put some powdered B-vitamins on my arm, one at a time, expecting that they would only be absorbed by the time I added water at the end of the process. However! It wasn't the case; by the time I put the first powder, I could tell that absorption was taking place! It's impressive and at the same time a bit concerning to consider how permeable the skin is.

 

[inthedark]

Just a quick note about a change in Energin. Due to relentless lobbying by @Amazoniac and a few others, as well as recent Peat interviews where he mentions the benefits of vitamin B5, we added it to Energin.

I just ordered a couple bottles of Energin and one of metergoline, they shipped Tuesday. Will these be the new formulation with B5?

 

[Amazoniac]

I have the impression that B-vitamins demand some extra molybdenum, with a great deal of certainty due to personal experience for running short on it often. It's just as real as a choline or vit B12 insufficiency.

"NNMT (EC2.1.1.1) catalyzes the methylation of NAM and structurally related compounds using the universal methyl donor S-adenosyl methionine (Met) (SAM) to produce S-adenosyl-L-homocysteine (SAH) and N1-methylnicotinamide (MNAM) [1]. The product of NNMT, MNAM, can be further oxidized by aldehyd oxidase (Aox) into two related compounds, N1-methyl-2-pyridone-5-carboxamide (2py) and N1-methyl-4-pyridone-3-carboxamide (4py), and all three metabolites are eventually excreted in the urine [2] (Figure 1). A secondary NAM clearance pathway starts with the direct oxidation of NAM to NAM N-oxide by cyp2E1 followed by elimination in the urine [3]. Under most conditions methylation is quantitatively by far the predominant NAM clearance pathway, with the exception of an acute pharmacological dose of NAM, which is mainly converted to NAM N-oxide [4,5]."

"Mammalian AOX is a molybdo-flavo enzyme involved in the detoxification of various endogenous and exogenous N-heterocyclic compounds[22,23]. N1-methylnicotinamide is one of the substrates of AOX by which N1-methylnicotinamide is oxidized to pyridones[7], and thus, detoxified. AOX is expressed predominantly in the liver. Therefore, severe liver disease might be expected to reduce plasma N1-methylnicotinamide clearance and subsequent insulin resistance. In fact, it is well known that liver cirrhosis is associated with high incidence of diabetes[36,37]. Pumpo et al[38] have found that cirrhotic patients have high serum N1-methylnicotinamide levels, both in basal values and after nicotinamide loading."

AOX is also expressed in the skin[26], which suggests skin involvement in N1-methylnicotinamide detoxification.

But it must not be limited to niacin. It might involve thiamine and biotin as well for their sulfur, but also pyridoxal.

People think that milk is covering their needs, but it's not so guaranteed. Milk from one farm might provide enough, but another might provide none at all.

 

[Amazoniac]

Thiamin - ScienceDirect

"TPP functions as an energy-rich phosphoanhydride with high potential for phosphate group transfer. It is deprotonated to form a carbanion at C-2 of the thiazole ring, which reacts with the polarized 2-carbonyl group of the substrate (an α-keto acid or α-keto sugar) and labializes certain C–C bonds to release CO2. The remaining adduct reacts by the following:

• protonation to give an active aldehyde addition product (e.g., decarboxylases);
• direct oxidation with suitable electron acceptors—to yield a high-energy, 2-acyl product;
• reacting with oxidized lipoic acid—to yield an acyldihydrolipoate product (e.g., oxidases or dehydrogenases); or
• addition to an aldehyde carbonyl to yield a new ketol.

In higher animals, the decarboxylation is oxidative, producing a carboxylic acid. This involves transfer of the aldehyde from TPP to lipoic acid (forming a 6-S-acylated dihydrolipoic acid and free TPP) and then to coenzyme A."

(might not require molybdenum)

--
Thiamine Biochemistry

 

[haidut]

I just ordered a couple bottles of Energin and one of metergoline, they shipped Tuesday. Will these be the new formulation with B5?

They should be, but let me know when you get them.

 

[haidut]

Savage.

I was surprised recently when I decided to put some powdered B-vitamins on my arm, one at a time, expecting that they would only be absorbed by the time I added water at the end of the process. However! It wasn't the case; by the time I put the first powder, I could tell that absorption was taking place! It's impressive and at the same time a bit concerning to consider how permeable the skin is.

Matches my experience as well. I once used a lot of rubbing alcohol to clean up my arms from sticky tocopherol. Within a minute or two I started to feel "drunk" and stopped using it. Rubbing alcohol can make you pass out much more easily than ethanol.

 

[Lucenzo01]

Just a quick note about a change in Energin. Due to relentless lobbying by @Amazoniac and a few others, as well as recent Peat interviews where he mentions the benefits of vitamin B5, we added it to Energin.

Great. I only miss Thiamine Pyrophosphate or Allithiamine instead of Thiamine HCL and this would be the perfect product.

 

[inthedark]

They should be, but let me know when you get them.

Both bottles do have B5 on the label . However I've just used some this morning and there seems to be some issue with the dropper or buildup of something inside it. First bunch of drops come out fine then something jams up and I have to squeeze extra hard to get more out. Shaking the bottle helps for a second but then same thing. I emptied it out into a glass and I don't see any hard or crytalized preciptitates. I'm wondering if this dropper is the same one as that used for Mitolipin, as I also had issues with a bottle of that, which at the time I just chalked up to it being quite thick.

 

[haidut]

Both bottles do have B5 on the label . However I've just used some this morning and there seems to be some issue with the dropper or buildup of something inside it. First bunch of drops come out fine then something jams up and I have to squeeze extra hard to get more out. Shaking the bottle helps for a second but then same thing. I emptied it out into a glass and I don't see any hard or crytalized preciptitates. I'm wondering if this dropper is the same one as that used for Mitolipin, as I also had issues with a bottle of that, which at the time I just chalked up to it being quite thick.

Could be a dropper issue again. I can send you new droppers if you want, but squeezing the bottle before every use should help. Some droppers seem to actually jamp up even liquid if it has the tiniest particles in it and squeezing the bottle when upright seems to clear this up and allow for another dose to be squeezed out.

 

[inthedark]

Could be a dropper issue again. I can send you new droppers if you want, but squeezing the bottle before every use should help. Some droppers seem to actually jamp up even liquid if it has the tiniest particles in it and squeezing the bottle when upright seems to clear this up and allow for another dose to be squeezed out.

Thanks! I'll try that

 

[A. squamosa]

I don't have the time to go through all 29 pages of this thread, so apologies if these qs have been covered already:

1) are people typically ingesting this or applying it topically?
2) if ingesting, what is a good food to have with this?
3) if applying topically, is there an advisable concurrent time of day/food consumption?
4) best kept in the fridge or doesn't matter?

Asking these qs because I just got my Energin and want to deploy it well!

 

[haidut]

I don't have the time to go through all 29 pages of this thread, so apologies if these qs have been covered already:

1) are people typically ingesting this or applying it topically?
2) if ingesting, what is a good food to have with this?
3) if applying topically, is there an advisable concurrent time of day/food consumption?
4) best kept in the fridge or doesn't matter?

Asking these qs because I just got my Energin and want to deploy it well!

No need to keep in the fridge, just keep away from direct sunlight. Applying anywhere on the body without hair should be good enough. I will let other chime in with suggestions for other uses.

 

[haidut]

Great. I only miss Thiamine Pyrophosphate or Allithiamine instead of Thiamine HCL and this would be the perfect product.

I have been trying to find a good supplier of the allithiamine. If we find one I will make the change immediately.

 

[A. squamosa]

Thanks @haidut, I've been consuming it with breakfast