Energin - Liquid B-Complex Vitamin Mix

[raypeatclips]

Any longer term updates from people using this topically?

 

[haidut]

I've been in the market for a quality yet decent dosed B supplement. Taking 2ml while eating a plentiful diet can over exceed RDA. Can the dose be split into 1ml increments and not 2? What is the reason to exceed the Upper tolerable intake of B1 (25mg from what I've read), B3(below 100mg for niacamide)

Are you considering the removal of synthetic Thiamin HCL as well as the use between niacin vs niacinamide?

Peat has mentioned some recommendations in his articles and interviews. He said he thinks 50mg-100mg B3 taken 2-3 times daily is probably optimal, and he mentioned 50mg-100mg B1 a few time sin regards to optimal mental performance. Btw, the RDA are not what is optimal for health but what is the minimum needed to avoid deficiency. The RDA was developed based on studying prisoners and other people under chronic starvation/stress. So, not exactly the desirable model for comparison, but many people use less then 2ml of Energin and still find benefit. This way the bottle will also last longer.

 

[Lucenzo01]

I have bought energin for my mom. She is a really active person so I thought that energin would be great for her. She has been using it topically and she loves it. I went to see her yesterday and tried some for myself. And I have to say that its absolutely incredible. It gave me a really subtle feeling of calmness and energy. I felt clean. I have been making my own topical B's for a time but the effect of energin was way better. Maybe is the quality of the ingredients or the activated B2 (I use plain riboflavin for my formulation), but this is better. Damn, I have to buy more now.

 

[haidut]

I have bought energin for my mom. She is a really active person so I thought that energin would be great for her. She has been using it topically and she loves it. I went to see her yesterday and tried some for myself. And I have to say that its absolutely incredible. It gave me a really subtle feeling of calmness and energy. I felt clean. I have been making my own topical B's for a time but the effect of energin was way better. Maybe is the quality of the ingredients or the activated B2 (I use plain riboflavin for my formulation), but this is better. Damn, I have to buy more now.

Ooops, sorry for getting you "addicted" Glad it is helping! It seems to be one of the most systemically beneficial products we have and one of with the most positive reviews.

 

[Soren]

my mother has been taking this taking 20 drops twice a day and noticed she was feeling a bit jittery and overstimulated. She cut down to only 10 drops and felt less jittery.

I think this is due to the fact that it increases metabolism and she is not getting enough calories similar to how caffeine can give one the jitters if there is not sufficient glucose in the body. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[Lucenzo01]

Ooops, sorry for getting you "addicted" Glad it is helping! It seems to be one of the most systemically beneficial products we have and one of with the most positive reviews.

Yeah, it's great. I think I remerber that you talked about using the activated form of thiamine in the future. Will it happen? Which form of thiamine would you use? Thanls for your time.

 

[haidut]

Yeah, it's great. I think I remerber that you talked about using the activated form of thiamine in the future. Will it happen? Which form of thiamine would you use? Thanls for your time.

Either thiamine pyrophosphate (TPP) or allithiamine. I think the latter is more likely as it is more stable in solution and seems to work just as well as TPP with the added benefit that it easily crosses the BBB.

 

[Amazoniac]

For those that use Energin on a regular basis, consider using pantothenic acid along as a brief experiment. I would be curious to know if gurus notice any change.

 

[Wagner83]

For those that use Energin on a regular basis, consider using pantothenic acid along as a brief experiment. I would be curious to know if gurus notice any change.

Did you? Pentatonic acid sounds good.

 

[Amazoniac]

Did you? Pentatonic acid sounds good.

Using with other B-vitamins, yes.
There's a discussion about it here. I don't remember the details about those negative studies but keeping yourself deficient isn't a solution. There's also the fact that the body shouldn't spend energy making something more toxic than what it already is from a simple correction of deficiency: the diets that these animals were receiving had plenty of the polyunsaturated oils, perhaps the body was just trying to minimize the damage. Even if it was turning into something toxic, these changes in lipids shouldn't be a problem when people are consistently restricting PUFA.
It's worth experiment for sure, regardless of a suspected deficiency. Sometimes it's difficult to know when it's something chronic and subtle. We just don't know how these vitamins interact in totality.
This has nothing to do with Bulgaria, I'm sure it's a great country.

 

[Koveras]

For those that use Energin on a regular basis, consider using pantothenic acid along as a brief experiment. I would be curious to know if gurus notice any change.

I developed some symptoms in the Fall - burning sensations in the feet, vulnerability to hyperammonia - that resolved with calcium pantothenate & pantethine supplementation.

 

[Amazoniac]

I developed some symptoms in the Fall - burning sensations in the feet, vulnerability to hyperammonia - that resolved with calcium pantothenate & pantethine supplementation.

There's the possibility of the interaction between vitamins, but also excess and prolonged excitation and then reliance on fat metabolism should increase the need for pantothenic acid.

Nutrient Interactions (1988) - Bodwell and Erdman

"Pantothenic acid is necessary for the overall metabolic reactions involving biotin; thus a biotin deficiency may be aggravated by a simultaneous pantothenic acid deficiency (Sauberlich, 1980).
Pantothenic acid may also be necessary for the efficient utilization of vitamin C. Large amounts of ascorbic acid have been shown to delay the onset and to reduce symptoms of pantothenic acid deficiency in animals (Fox, 1984). Utilization of pantothenic acid requires biotin as well as folic acid, as shown in rat studies (Fox, 1984).
In summary, the review of interactions of B vitamins demonstrates the point made earlier--that many critical metabolic processes require the concerted action of several B-complex vitamins. Looking at the actions of each vitamin separately does not provide an accurate explanation, as it is essentially a dissection of parts of the whole picture.
The B-complex vitamins are just that, a complex, working together in many of the metabolic reactions of the cell. For example, one of the key reactions of metabolism is the conversion of pyruvate to acetyl-CoA. It is a key reaction because it is at an intersection between the breaking down of sugar for energy and the making of fat and protein. Since B vitamins work as coenzymes, four different vitamins (niacin, thiamin, pantothenic acid, and biotin) are required in this one enzymatic conversion. Thus, a deficiency of any one of these four vitamins compromises the efficiency of the other three. This model could explain why biotin and folic acid are needed for the utilization of pantothenic acid in rats and why pantothenic acid is needed for the overall reactions involving biotin."
__
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1016/j.febslet.2004.05.044/full​

I still don't know if it's worth supplementing often, on the other hand I think people should consider experimenting once in a while just to make sure that they're not deficient.
I want to let you and Zeus know that I accept both for who you are.

 

[Wagner83]

Using with other B-vitamins, yes.
There's a discussion about it here. I don't remember the details about those negative studies but keeping yourself deficient isn't a solution. There's also the fact that the body shouldn't spend energy making something more toxic than what it already is from a simple correction of deficiency: the diets that these animals were receiving had plenty of the polyunsaturated oils, perhaps the body was just trying to minimize the damage. Even if it was turning into something toxic, these changes in lipids shouldn't be a problem when people are consistently restricting PUFA.
It's worth experiment for sure, regardless of a suspected deficiency. Sometimes it's difficult to know when it's something chronic and subtle. We just don't know how these vitamins interact in totality.
This has nothing to do with Bulgaria, I'm sure it's a great country.

Ok. What effects do you get from the b vitamins with and without pantothenic acid? I wonder if following a high-carb diet (whether high potatoes or high fruits) without supplementing b-vitamins can actually be dangerous.

 

[Amazoniac]

Ok. What effects do you get from the b vitamins with and without pantothenic acid? I wonder if following a high-carb diet (whether high potatoes or high fruits) without supplementing b-vitamins can actually be dangerous.

They appear to stop working as before after a while, with the exception of niacin.

Here they were almost vegans (without enough dairy, meats and eggs, but also fruits) and the only nutrients that fell short for them were rayboflavin and B12.
The advantage of not supplementing anything at all is that you will lose appetite if your meals aren't nourishing and right, which helps to prevent problems.

 

[Koveras]

Pantothenic acid is necessary for the overall metabolic reactions involving biotin

Does this imply that high dose biotin might increase pantothenic acid requirements?

 

[Amazoniac]

Does this imply that high dose biotin might increase pantothenic acid requirements?

Don't know.
Travisord once exchanged some messages with a person that claimed it's rare to find animals deficient in biotin because of microbes in the gut always provide some; some people have too little while others have too much (there was a member recently that uploaded lab tests that found elevated biotin, and the guru was dealing with bacterial overgrowth). I read that both can compete for absortion, but didn't read in details how it works. If the diet isn't providing enough and all what was mentioned is true, then there's a possibility of that contributing to the deficiency.

 

[Mito]

For those that use Energin on a regular basis, consider using pantothenic acid along as a brief experiment. I would be curious to know if gurus notice any change.

I use Energin regularly and I was adding 500mg/day Pantothenic Acid every other week or so. After measuring my B5 status (with OAT) I stopped supplementing B5 because my status was well above average. I’m thinking I get enough from my diet.

 

[Amazoniac]

I use Energin regularly and I was adding 500mg/day Pantothenic Acid every other week or so. After measuring my B5 status (with OAT) I stopped supplementing B5 because my status was well above average. I’m thinking I get enough from my diet.

A cup of cooked shiitake mushrooms contains 5mg, it's one of the best sources. You consumed 100x that. Why so much? Based on what I read so far I would use the least possible amount for preventing a deficiency or balancing with the others. I respect you regardless of your income.

 

[Mito]

Why so much?

500 mg is about the smallest dose available in a capsule form

 

[Braveheart]

500 mg is about the smallest dose available in a capsule form

Nope...100 and 250....Vitacost