Energin - Liquid B-Complex Vitamin Mix

[Wagner83]

I find taurine actually gives me awful liver pains. Is it a sign it's clearing something out or what? I'm unsure

Could be gallbladder as it forces bile production and may even expel and gallstone if there is one. I doubt taurine hurts the liver in any way.

Eire24 reported similar issues to mine on a starch free diet, as you know one of my assumptions was that it could have to do with better hormonal profile and increase in a formerly sluggish bile flow (stools were quite clear, taurine helped). Not sure if that makes sense though as I don't seem to have issues with bile flow now ( colour of stools) and still get the pain if I ingest too much sucrose/fructose (possibly even more so in the liquid form).

 

[Xisca]

Peat wrote in several of his articles that biotin deficiency triggers glycolysis and extra biotin restrains it.

Lactate vs. CO2 in wounds, sickness, and aging; the other approach to cancer

"...Vitamins D, K, B6 and biotin are also closely involved with carbon dioxide metabolism. Biotin deficiency can cause aerobic glycolysis with increased fat synthesis (Marshall, et al., 1976)."

I went to buy biotin after reading Peat, and I can agree it helped me recover after my big flue. I have hyperglycemia, usually, and with fatigue and pains and aches, so lactic acid and poor use of glucose, obviously....

But about p5p, that also helped me along with Mg, you put much less than solgar that is as high as 50mg, any reason for the dosage?

 

[haidut]

I went to buy biotin after reading Peat, and I can agree it helped me recover after my big flue. I have hyperglycemia, usually, and with fatigue and pains and aches, so lactic acid and poor use of glucose, obviously....

But about p5p, that also helped me along with Mg, you put much less than solgar that is as high as 50mg, any reason for the dosage?

Have you seen Peat's quotes saying "10mg (B6) is a BIG dose"? Hence the dosing in our supplement. And last but not least - we use P5P which is about 10-fold more effective than pyridoxine. So, 5mg P5P is about the same as taking 50mg pyridoxine Hcl.

 

[Xisca]

Hic, my product IS P5P... AND 50mg;
It made a real wonder to allow Mg to work, I was better overnight!!!!!!
But yes, I saw it was big and do not take it every day.

 

[raypeatclips]

What does ethanol potentiating the effects of the b vitamins by 15-20x actually mean?

For someone that struggles with higher doses of niacinamide, say 1g for example. Would a single serving of energin at 100mg niacinamide give the same reaction as a 1g or even higher?

 

[haidut]

What does ethanol potentiating the effects of the b vitamins by 15-20x actually mean?

For someone that struggles with higher doses of niacinamide, say 1g for example. Would a single serving of energin at 100mg niacinamide give the same reaction as a 1g or even higher?

I think the potentiation is in terms of absorption through the skin. Niacinamide is already well absorbed if taken orally but not vert well absorbed topically unless some denaturing agent like ethanol is present.

 

[raypeatclips]

I think the potentiation is in terms of absorption through the skin. Niacinamide is already well absorbed if taken orally but not vert well absorbed topically unless some denaturing agent like ethanol is present.

I'm still confused. So the benefit of 15x strength is topically only? Sorry I feel like I am missing something really obvious here that hasn't clicked yet.

Do you think there is any benefit over taking energin orally instead of topically?

 

[haidut]

I'm still confused. So the benefit of 15x strength is topically only? Sorry I feel like I am missing something really obvious here that hasn't clicked yet.

Do you think there is any benefit over taking energin orally instead of topically?

Yes, the studies in the original thread were on topical absorption potentiation. I have never said or seen anybody imply that there is 15x-20x potentiation of effect from ethanol. Maybe from DMSO, but we are not using that for Energin.

 

[raypeatclips]

@haidut I got these thoughts from davefoster mentioning it around the forum, has there been a mix up?

Thiamine Is A Carbonic Anhydrase Inhibitor As Effective As Acetazolamide

 

[raypeatclips]

I think he was referring to this post

Re: Energin - custom, liquid dietary supplement with B vitam



All of the water soluble vitamins have certain solubility in ethanol and water. So the dosages are as close to the maximum solubility for each vitamin as possible. For vitamin B6 we only dissolved what Ray considers a good dose (i.e. <10mg).
Also, keep in mind that the old study "j." posted in another thread showed topical absorption close to 90% and it avoids the liver, so if you use this vitamin topically the plasma concentrations would be comparable to an oral dosage 15-20 times higher, which puts the thiamine way into the safe range.

 

[haidut]

I think he was referring to this post

That statement refers to topical vs. oral bioavailability. It applies to probably any other chemical with poor oral bioavailability as thiamine. Given the good absorption through the skin for thiamine in a water/ethanol solution a dose of Energin would be equivalent to 15-20 times higher dose of oral thiamine to achieve the same concentrations in the blood. There is nothing in that statement about potentiation of any kind for the actual vitamin in a way that say DMSO potentiates steroid effects inside the cell.

 

[raypeatclips]

That statement refers to topical vs. oral bioavailability. It applies to probably any other chemical with poor oral bioavailability as thiamine. Given the good absorption through the skin for thiamine in a water/ethanol solution a dose of Energin would be equivalent to 15-20 times higher dose of oral thiamine to achieve the same concentrations in the blood. There is nothing in that statement about potentiation of any kind for the actual vitamin in a way that say DMSO potentiates steroid effects inside the cell.

Okay that makes sense, combination of Dave's comment and tiredness confused me. So do you think the blood sugar lowering effects of some of the b vitamins becomes apparent in lower doses? As I mentioned before, 100mg niacinamide causing the issues that say 1g or higher would?

 

[haidut]

Okay that makes sense, combination of Dave's comment and tiredness confused me. So do you think the blood sugar lowering effects of some of the b vitamins becomes apparent in lower doses? As I mentioned before, 100mg niacinamide causing the issues that say 1g or higher would?

Unless the low blood sugar has been confirmed by tests, I would not automatically equate fatigue with low blood sugar caused by B vitamins. Could be insulin overload making a person tired, as well as a number of other things. Why single out the B vitamins?

 

[raypeatclips]

Unless the low blood sugar has been confirmed by tests, I would not automatically equate fatigue with low blood sugar caused by B vitamins. Could be insulin overload making a person tired, as well as a number of other things. Why single out the B vitamins?

Sorry you misunderstood me, I was tired last night so was confused by Dave's comments and trying to work out the potentiation mix up, nothing to do with b vitamins.

I have used niacinamide in the past and had adrenaline/stress response/ hunger, so just wondered how to approach energin to prevent this happening. I wasn't providing a negative testimonial of energin.

 

[haidut]

Sorry you misunderstood me, I was tired last night so was confused by Dave's comments and trying to work out the potentiation mix up, nothing to do with b vitamins.

I have used niacinamide in the past and had adrenaline/stress response/ hunger, so just wondered how to approach energin to prevent this happening. I wasn't providing a negative testimonial of energin.

No worries. I think using a single dose of Energin is not likely to cause these issues. At least, we have not gotten reports like that so far. As long as you are well-fed or at least have something sweet to drink a single dose of Energin should be fine, but if you are concerned then you can start with half a dose.

 

[Amazoniac]

Based on a study "j." posted about a month ago, the topical absorption is over 90% for the vitamins above.

B6 And Dandruff

 

[Amazoniac]

Memorable,
After reading about it, I decided to confirm if b-vits can potentiate any problem by being growth-factors for bacteria. I ate gelatin, which happens to give me some reactions, followed by Energin: it was a mess, it took 3 days to clear the overall congestion.
I have no doubt that topical is safer in this regard.

 

[raypeatclips]

Memorable,
After reading about it, I decided to confirm if b-vits can potentiate any problem by being growth-factors for bacteria. I ate gelatin, which happens to give me some reactions, followed by Energin: it was a mess, it took 3 days to clear the overall congestion.
I have no doubt that topical is safer in this regard.

Our brave hero. Have you tried the same food and energin topically at similar times?

 

[Amazoniac]

Our brave hero. Have you tried the same food and energin topically at similar times?

No, but I suspect that the reaction would be similar or perhaps slightly milder because b-vits are supposed to help dealing with toxins.

 

[Lucenzo01]

I want to increase my B1 and B2 intake, but I'm not sure if the b6 would negate any benefits I could get while megadosis Energin. Have you think about making an Energin supplement without the b6 for crazy people like me who like to megadose?