Energin - Liquid B-Complex Vitamin Mix

[haidut]

post 105865 would you ever use coq10 in a product ?

There is nothing CoQ10 can do that vitamin K2 (MK-4) cannot do better.

 

[haidut]

post 105917 So little Boitin? Ive understood it to benefit hair growth, is it too expensive an ingredient? (most multi vits skimp on biotin for that reason ive read, long time ago) Ok Tnx

Based on my research, this is the proper ratio of biotin given the other doses of B vitamins. Keep in mind that 2mg daily biotin is approved for blood sugar control in some countries so that dose is not hard to reach with Energin. If someone needs a higher dose they can get it cheaper as a separate supplement. Btw, with the recent trials showing success of biotin in MS it may not be long before 1mg per dose becomes illegal.

 

[tomisonbottom]

Thanks, I doubt the b2 will be a issue. I just for some reason remember ray saying it should not be used.

How well do you feel topical preg. is absorbed?

About the same as the topical progesterone. Since a dose of StressNon has 100mg of pregnenolone, when I take it topically I sweat profusely and have an energy to play a 90min soccer game. Orally, I get a lot less pronounced effect but funny enough when taken orally I get more of a mental boost for some reason. Weird, I know. It's probably due to the difference in metabolism when taken orally and topically. Maybe when I take it orally my liver converts it into more progesterone, while when done topically I get more of the DHEA metabolic pathway. Go figure...

I was looking at your store site and it says stressnon has 10mg of pregnenolone......did you mean you take 10 doses at a time gives you energy? Or did you mean to say 10mg, not 100mg of pregnenolone?

 

[haidut]

post 107947

Thanks, I doubt the b2 will be a issue. I just for some reason remember ray saying it should not be used.

How well do you feel topical preg. is absorbed?

About the same as the topical progesterone. Since a dose of StressNon has 100mg of pregnenolone, when I take it topically I sweat profusely and have an energy to play a 90min soccer game. Orally, I get a lot less pronounced effect but funny enough when taken orally I get more of a mental boost for some reason. Weird, I know. It's probably due to the difference in metabolism when taken orally and topically. Maybe when I take it orally my liver converts it into more progesterone, while when done topically I get more of the DHEA metabolic pathway. Go figure...

I was looking at your store site and it says stressnon has 10mg of pregnenolone......did you mean you take 10 doses at a time gives you energy? Or did you mean to say 10mg, not 100mg of pregnenolone?

That was the older version of StressNon that provided 100mg of pregnenolone per serving and which we determined to be much less bioavailable than the DMSO based version we sell now. So, with the newer version I do not take 10 doses but rather just one. Also, I prefer Pansterone lately as it seems to be more androgenic for me and helps with weight lifting recovery.

 

[tomisonbottom]

post 107952

post 107947

Thanks, I doubt the b2 will be a issue. I just for some reason remember ray saying it should not be used.

How well do you feel topical preg. is absorbed?

About the same as the topical progesterone. Since a dose of StressNon has 100mg of pregnenolone, when I take it topically I sweat profusely and have an energy to play a 90min soccer game. Orally, I get a lot less pronounced effect but funny enough when taken orally I get more of a mental boost for some reason. Weird, I know. It's probably due to the difference in metabolism when taken orally and topically. Maybe when I take it orally my liver converts it into more progesterone, while when done topically I get more of the DHEA metabolic pathway. Go figure...

I was looking at your store site and it says stressnon has 10mg of pregnenolone......did you mean you take 10 doses at a time gives you energy? Or did you mean to say 10mg, not 100mg of pregnenolone?

That was the older version of StressNon that provided 100mg of pregnenolone per serving and which we determined to be much less bioavailable than the DMSO based version we sell now. So, with the newer version I do not take 10 doses but rather just one. Also, I prefer Pansterone lately as it seems to be more androgenic for me and helps with weight lifting recovery.

Ok, so if you want to get that level of energy you're referring to (e.g., to play 90 mins of soccer) do you take Stressnon or Pansterone? I know every person is different so it doesn't mean I'll get the same results, but that's what I'm trying to get at.

 

[haidut]

post 107956

post 107952

post 107947

Thanks, I doubt the b2 will be a issue. I just for some reason remember ray saying it should not be used.

How well do you feel topical preg. is absorbed?

About the same as the topical progesterone. Since a dose of StressNon has 100mg of pregnenolone, when I take it topically I sweat profusely and have an energy to play a 90min soccer game. Orally, I get a lot less pronounced effect but funny enough when taken orally I get more of a mental boost for some reason. Weird, I know. It's probably due to the difference in metabolism when taken orally and topically. Maybe when I take it orally my liver converts it into more progesterone, while when done topically I get more of the DHEA metabolic pathway. Go figure...

I was looking at your store site and it says stressnon has 10mg of pregnenolone......did you mean you take 10 doses at a time gives you energy? Or did you mean to say 10mg, not 100mg of pregnenolone?

That was the older version of StressNon that provided 100mg of pregnenolone per serving and which we determined to be much less bioavailable than the DMSO based version we sell now. So, with the newer version I do not take 10 doses but rather just one. Also, I prefer Pansterone lately as it seems to be more androgenic for me and helps with weight lifting recovery.

Ok, so if you want to get that level of energy (e.g., to play 90 mins of soccer) do you take stressnon or pansterone? I know every person is different so it doesn't mean I'll get the same results, but that's what i'm trying to get at.

Pansterone seems to give me both more energy and faster recovery.

 

[Amazoniac]

haidut,
what would you change if it was designed to take it exclusively orally (amount of each, best medium, pH, etc)?
The reason I'm asking you is because I'm customizing a supplement for myself (but don't worry: under supervision of a professional) and wanted to discuss your opinions with her.

Custom policies in my country are a mess, so I'm trying the easier route first. If that doesn't work as expected, Energin, here I come..
Oh, and I'm also adding 100mg of b5 and 20mcg of b12 - but still wondering if it's worth having them all mixed together or separate.

 

[cantstoppeating]

Since many people find haidut through these forums and are made aware of his vitamins through these specific threads, the first post of these supplement threads should be updated with the current formulations -- the current Energin formula is different to the one in the first post: 5mg reduction in B2 and an addition of 1mg biotin.

 

[haidut]

post 110717 haidut,
what would you change if it was designed to take it exclusively orally (amount of each, best medium, pH, etc)?
The reason I'm asking you is because I'm customizing a supplement for myself (but don't worry: under supervision of a professional) and wanted to discuss your opinions with her.

Custom policies in my country are a mess, so I'm trying the easier route first. If that doesn't work as expected, Energin, here I come..
Oh, and I'm also adding 100mg of b5 and 20mcg of b12 - but still wondering if it's worth having them all mixed together or separate.

I would not change anything really. All the vitamins in Energin are of pharmaceutical purity and the rest is distilled water and ethanol. ALL, and I can't stress this enough, ALL of the materials are food quality of better and the only reason I do not recommend Energin for oral consumption is it requires a special certification. Lotioncrafter is the same way and most people use their tocopherol orally without any issues.

 

[Amazoniac]

post 110750

post 110717 haidut,
what would you change if it was designed to take it exclusively orally (amount of each, best medium, pH, etc)?
The reason I'm asking you is because I'm customizing a supplement for myself (but don't worry: under supervision of a professional) and wanted to discuss your opinions with her.

Custom policies in my country are a mess, so I'm trying the easier route first. If that doesn't work as expected, Energin, here I come..
Oh, and I'm also adding 100mg of b5 and 20mcg of b12 - but still wondering if it's worth having them all mixed together or separate.

I would not change anything really. All the vitamins in Energin are of pharmaceutical purity and the rest is distilled water and ethanol. ALL, and I can't stress this enough, ALL of the materials are food quality of better and the only reason I do not recommend Energin for oral consumption is it requires a special certification. Lotioncrafter is the same way and most people use their tocopherol orally without any issues.

Thank you for the reply, haidut. I thought that the ethanol was there to help it absorb through the skin.. why would you mantain that base?
So, the only precaution is to avoid taking it on empty stomach to prevent irritation from Thiamine?

 

[haidut]

post 110760

post 110750

post 110717 haidut,
what would you change if it was designed to take it exclusively orally (amount of each, best medium, pH, etc)?
The reason I'm asking you is because I'm customizing a supplement for myself (but don't worry: under supervision of a professional) and wanted to discuss your opinions with her.

Custom policies in my country are a mess, so I'm trying the easier route first. If that doesn't work as expected, Energin, here I come..
Oh, and I'm also adding 100mg of b5 and 20mcg of b12 - but still wondering if it's worth having them all mixed together or separate.

I would not change anything really. All the vitamins in Energin are of pharmaceutical purity and the rest is distilled water and ethanol. ALL, and I can't stress this enough, ALL of the materials are food quality of better and the only reason I do not recommend Energin for oral consumption is it requires a special certification. Lotioncrafter is the same way and most people use their tocopherol orally without any issues.

Thank you for the reply, haidut. I thought that the ethanol was there to help it absorb through the skin.. why would you mantain that base?
So, the only precaution is to avoid taking it on empty stomach to prevent irritation from Thiamine?

Yes, the only issue people have reported from oral use is GI upset from thiamine. Th ethanol is too low of concentration to cause GI upset.

 

[Amazoniac]

post 110766

post 110760

post 110750

post 110717 haidut,
what would you change if it was designed to take it exclusively orally (amount of each, best medium, pH, etc)?
The reason I'm asking you is because I'm customizing a supplement for myself (but don't worry: under supervision of a professional) and wanted to discuss your opinions with her.

Custom policies in my country are a mess, so I'm trying the easier route first. If that doesn't work as expected, Energin, here I come..
Oh, and I'm also adding 100mg of b5 and 20mcg of b12 - but still wondering if it's worth having them all mixed together or separate.

I would not change anything really. All the vitamins in Energin are of pharmaceutical purity and the rest is distilled water and ethanol. ALL, and I can't stress this enough, ALL of the materials are food quality of better and the only reason I do not recommend Energin for oral consumption is it requires a special certification. Lotioncrafter is the same way and most people use their tocopherol orally without any issues.

Thank you for the reply, haidut. I thought that the ethanol was there to help it absorb through the skin.. why would you mantain that base?
So, the only precaution is to avoid taking it on empty stomach to prevent irritation from Thiamine?

Yes, the only issue people have reported from oral use is GI upset from thiamine. Th ethanol is too low of concentration to cause GI upset.

Two more questions if you don't mind:
- Is there any advantage in keeping the ethanol there for oral use?
- How dry and liquid forms compare with each other?

 

[haidut]

post 110810

post 110766

post 110760

post 110750

post 110717 haidut,
what would you change if it was designed to take it exclusively orally (amount of each, best medium, pH, etc)?
The reason I'm asking you is because I'm customizing a supplement for myself (but don't worry: under supervision of a professional) and wanted to discuss your opinions with her.

Custom policies in my country are a mess, so I'm trying the easier route first. If that doesn't work as expected, Energin, here I come..
Oh, and I'm also adding 100mg of b5 and 20mcg of b12 - but still wondering if it's worth having them all mixed together or separate.

I would not change anything really. All the vitamins in Energin are of pharmaceutical purity and the rest is distilled water and ethanol. ALL, and I can't stress this enough, ALL of the materials are food quality of better and the only reason I do not recommend Energin for oral consumption is it requires a special certification. Lotioncrafter is the same way and most people use their tocopherol orally without any issues.

Thank you for the reply, haidut. I thought that the ethanol was there to help it absorb through the skin.. why would you mantain that base?
So, the only precaution is to avoid taking it on empty stomach to prevent irritation from Thiamine?

Yes, the only issue people have reported from oral use is GI upset from thiamine. Th ethanol is too low of concentration to cause GI upset.

Two more questions if you don't mind:
- Is there any advantage in keeping the ethanol there for oral use?
- How dry and liquid forms compare with each other?

I don't think the ethanol will boost oral absorption in any way, so if you are making one for oral consumption then water is probably fine. I don't sell dry vitamin supplements, so not sure what you mean by comparison of dry and liquid form. There is a study that shows 90%+ absorption of the B vitamins from topical absorption. Some of the B vitamins like thiamine are poorly absorbed orally, probably as low as 10% absorption orally.

 

[Amazoniac]

I know you don't, I was just wondering..
All your replies were informative, many thanks!

 

[Amazoniac]

haidut, I read on TMZ that in 2016 your Energin will contain pantothenic acid; can you confirm this?

 

[haidut]

post 114255 haidut, I read on TMZ that in 2016 your Energin will contain pantothenic acid; can you confirm this?

What is TMZ? Not sure who quotes me but until I see some more solid research on effects of exogenous supplementation of pantothenic acid, folid acid and vitamin B12 I have no plans to include these 3 vitamins.

 

[Amazoniac]

post 114255 haidut, I read on TMZ that in 2016 your Energin will contain pantothenic acid; can you confirm this?

What is TMZ? Not sure who quotes me but until I see some more solid research on effects of exogenous supplementation of pantothenic acid, folid acid and vitamin B12 I have no plans to include these 3 vitamins.

haidut, we can argue in favor of all B vits to include in a supplement. However, unlike with b5, there are well known reasons why not supplement with b9 and b12. I wonder if there's a reason why not include b5..?

 

[haidut]

post 114648

post 114255 haidut, I read on TMZ that in 2016 your Energin will contain pantothenic acid; can you confirm this?

What is TMZ? Not sure who quotes me but until I see some more solid research on effects of exogenous supplementation of pantothenic acid, folid acid and vitamin B12 I have no plans to include these 3 vitamins.

haidut, we can argue in favor of all B vits to include in a supplement. However, unlike with b5, there are well known reasons why not supplement with b9 and b12. I wonder if there's a reason why not include b5..?

I has been shown to boost cortisol production even in healthy people. Also, I don't think it affects directly mitochondrial health like B1, B2, and B3. I may include it at some point in the future but I need to convince myself of its merits first and so far the evidence for it is not strong, in marked contrast to the B1, B2, B3, B6, and biotin group.

 

[Makrosky]

post 115130

post 114648

post 114255 haidut, I read on TMZ that in 2016 your Energin will contain pantothenic acid; can you confirm this?

What is TMZ? Not sure who quotes me but until I see some more solid research on effects of exogenous supplementation of pantothenic acid, folid acid and vitamin B12 I have no plans to include these 3 vitamins.

haidut, we can argue in favor of all B vits to include in a supplement. However, unlike with b5, there are well known reasons why not supplement with b9 and b12. I wonder if there's a reason why not include b5..?

I has been shown to boost cortisol production even in healthy people. Also, I don't think it affects directly mitochondrial health like B1, B2, and B3. I may include it at some point in the future but I need to convince myself of its merits first and so far the evidence for it is not strong, in marked contrast to the B1, B2, B3, B6, and biotin group.

For me the current Energin formula works very good. 3 doses so far. Provides a clean energy non maniac like the one I get from other commercial b-complex produc
ts.

Simple things work better and I like your conservative hipocratic approach of "first not harm".

 

[Makrosky]

post 115130

post 114648

post 114255 haidut, I read on TMZ that in 2016 your Energin will contain pantothenic acid; can you confirm this?

What is TMZ? Not sure who quotes me but until I see some more solid research on effects of exogenous supplementation of pantothenic acid, folid acid and vitamin B12 I have no plans to include these 3 vitamins.

haidut, we can argue in favor of all B vits to include in a supplement. However, unlike with b5, there are well known reasons why not supplement with b9 and b12. I wonder if there's a reason why not include b5..?

I has been shown to boost cortisol production even in healthy people. Also, I don't think it affects directly mitochondrial health like B1, B2, and B3. I may include it at some point in the future but I need to convince myself of its merits first and so far the evidence for it is not strong, in marked contrast to the B1, B2, B3, B6, and biotin group.

For me the current Energin formula works very good. 3 doses so far. Provides a clean energy non maniac like the one I get from other commercial b-complex produc
ts.

Simple things work better and I like your conservative hipocratic approach of "first not harm".

Btw Ray mentions B5 favorably in Nutrition for Women. Can't remember the context though. If anyone is interested I can copypaste the paragraphs.