Energin - Liquid B-Complex Vitamin Mix

[haidut]

@haidut Are you still looking at doing an activated thiamine (TPP) here? I'd be curious in trying this out.

Not much need really. Regular thiamine works just as well in higher doses. I would say the conversion would be 3:1. So a dose of 100mg regular thiamine would be as good as 30mg TPP.

 

[jmojo]

Not much need really. Regular thiamine works just as well in higher doses. I would say the conversion would be 3:1. So a dose of 100mg regular thiamine would be as good as 30mg TPP.

Good to know. Thanks!

 

[Amazoniac]

From PM with consent:

We just got back the results from the lab and there has been no degradation of vitamin E, L, or B2, in the white opaque bottles.

How long the supplements were kept inside the bottle before testing? Did they try to induce a degradation with light or was it just a an analysis of the content?

I keep a few bottles of every supplement under conditions that can cause degradation. The bottles sent for analysis had TocoVit, MitoLipin, Energin and Kuinone inside them and were kept by my office windows for 2 months. So, they got plenty of sunlight during the day. I think most plastic bottles, except the fully transparent ones, stop UV light anyways. But regardless, the lab did not find degradation by products or diminished quantity of the active ingredient inside the bottle.

 

[Makrosky]

My only suggestion would be to make it more concentrated as 40 drops is just too much work for a single supplement.

Cheers! :)

Thank you, noted.

Yes please, I think 10 drops full dose would be much more practical. You don't need such a big granularity with Energin as with other products like pansterone and tyromix.

Who is taking less than a half dose (it would be 5 drops) of Energin anyway? I don't think it makes any sense to take less than half dose except financial reasons.

 

[Pointless]

Fwiw my Energin precipitates. It has a powder at the bottom of the bottle. It's always kept at room temp or above as it's quite warm where I live.

 

[raypeatclips]

Fwiw my Energin precipitates. It has a powder at the bottom of the bottle. It's always kept at room temp or above as it's quite warm where I live.

I get the powder at the bottom too, is this not a normal thing?

 

[haidut]

Yes please, I think 10 drops full dose would be much more practical. You don't need such a big granularity with Energin as with other products like pansterone and tyromix.

Who is taking less than a half dose (it would be 5 drops) of Energin anyway? I don't think it makes any sense to take less than half dose except financial reasons.

We need this amount of liquid in 40 drops to dissolve the doses listed on the label. If I find a solvent that can dissolve more vitamins in less liquid I will definitely consider it.

 

[haidut]

Fwiw my Energin precipitates. It has a powder at the bottom of the bottle. It's always kept at room temp or above as it's quite warm where I live.

If you warm it up and shake the precipitate will disappear and probably not form again unless you put in the fridge.

 

[haidut]

I get the powder at the bottom too, is this not a normal thing?

It is a normal thing. As I said in another comment above, warming it up and shaking should dissolve it and it may not precipitate again.

 

[Pointless]

If you warm it up and shake the precipitate will disappear and probably not form again unless you put in the fridge.

OK I'll do that. I just think that concentrating it more without changing the solvent is just going to make it worse.

 

[Makrosky]

We need this amount of liquid in 40 drops to dissolve the doses listed on the label. If I find a solvent that can dissolve more vitamins in less liquid I will definitely consider it.

Oh, I see, so there's a chemical reason. So be it then.

 

[Texon]

So it seems there are some benefits in that B12 does lower Nitric Oxide synthesis (B Vitamins As Antidote To Air Pollution) and it may protect against GI cancer (Vitamins B2 And B12 Protect Against GI Cancer). The only study I found that showed a possible link between B12 and cancer was this one Study: Vitamin B12 Correlated with Higher Cancer Risk. But it's not clear that it was caused by B12 rather the cancer seems to increase B12 levels. The only other one I saw was the Norway study with Folic Acid and B12 supplementation causing an increased risk of lung cancer. But 70% of the study participants were smokers or former smokers. Also the supplement was high dose folic acid and not folate or methyl folate. Seems unlikely B12 contributed, but who knows? Nevertheless I understand your reasons for caution with B12.

@haidut @Mito.....fwiw..I have found out the hard way that b12 deficiency is a huge issue for me, and if I knew how to blast this info to the forum I would do it. Please take a look..especially at the testimonials and the self assessment form at the bottom of the main page. Common testing methods do not always reveal this, and there seem to be scores of things that can interfere with absorption.

B12 Deficiency Support Group | Vitamin B12 deficiency Charity Support Group

 

[Amazoniac]

ESPN-13: 978-0-8493-4022-2

"Topical administration of riboflavin to the skin may increase melanin synthesis by stimulation of free-radical formation. Riboflavin forms an adduct with tryptophan and accelerates the photooxidation of this essential amino acid (85). Further research is needed to explore the full implications of the photosensitizing capabilities of riboflavin and its phosphorylated derivatives."
"There is increasing evidence that in the presence of visible light, riboflavin and its degradative products may enhance mutagenicity (89)."

This is just a good reason to not apply it on exposed areas, which tend to be rougher and not the best sites anyway.

 

[haidut]

ESPN-13: 978-0-8493-4022-2

"Topical administration of riboflavin to the skin may increase melanin synthesis by stimulation of free-radical formation. Riboflavin forms an adduct with tryptophan and accelerates the photooxidation of this essential amino acid (85). Further research is needed to explore the full implications of the photosensitizing capabilities of riboflavin and its phosphorylated derivatives."
"There is increasing evidence that in the presence of visible light, riboflavin and its degradative products may enhance mutagenicity (89)."

This is just a good reason to not apply it on exposed areas, which tend to be rougher and not the best sites anyway.

Interesting, thanks. It also suggests riboflavin may increase tryptophan degradation in general. The MAO-A enzyme is riboflavin dependent so we know riboflavin can speed up serotonin degradation. If it can also reduce its synthesis that would be a double benefit.

 

[Uncaged]

Has anyone found a noticeable difference between topical, or oral supplementation, in regard to efficacy?

@haidut How would I go about ordering one, or the other? Just drop you a line to let you know if I plan to use it orally, or topically?

 

[raypeatclips]

How would I go about ordering one, or the other? Just drop you a line to let you know if I plan to use it orally, or topically?

There isn't a different topical or oral product, it's both the same, it's just up to you how you use it :)

 

[Waynish]

Maybe I missed it in the thread, but were there thoughts on adding some folate?

 

[Mito]

Maybe I missed it in the thread, but were there thoughts on adding some folate?

Haidut said "....until I see some more solid research on effects of exogenous supplementation of pantothenic acid, folid acid and vitamin B12 I have no plans to include these 3 vitamins."
Energin - Custom, Liquid Dietary Supplement With B Vitamins

 

[Waynish]

Haidut, if you were going to reformulate energin with the recovery of alcoholics in mind, how might you balance energin's ratios?

 

[haidut]

Haidut, if you were going to reformulate energin with the recovery of alcoholics in mind, how might you balance energin's ratios?

I would probably up the thiamine a bit but if it is taken for at least a week on a daily basis even this dose of thiamine should have an effect.