Endurance Exercise Is Unhealthy

haidut

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As a former very avid runner, this realization, which came as a result of reading Peat was very difficult to accept. I really enjoyed running, but it was undeniable that it was ruining my joints and, according to this article, my heart as well. After all these years mainstream science is finally admitting that the lower heart rates in endurance athletes are NOT healthy.

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-27389257

"...Athletes beware - endurance training may make it more likely that you will need a pacemaker, scientists believe."
 
J

j.

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I was a fast short distance runner, and used to jog for about 40-45 minutes at my own pace. Wanted to increase it to 60 but other commitments forced me to stop; I didn't have time (*). Despite jogging that way for a few years, my pulse never came down, it was above 80, and at that time I had no thyroid problems.

One thing I remembered is that I heard people saying runners have lower pulses, but I felt mine when I was running and it was elevated, of course, but when I was resting it was also a fast pulse, above 80.

Many years later I had thyroid problems for other reasons, but I believe there's a way to be a runner and not destroy your thyroid function, and maybe even improve your overall well being. But you probably have to be healthy before you start, running is probably not a tool for a sick person to become healthy.

(*) I mentioned that I thought about increasing my 45 minutes jog to 60 minutes. I thought I would mention that at the time I also thought that I'd never jog over 60 minutes. I was doing it as a voluntary, enjoyable activity, at my own pace, and I thought then that going over 60 minutes wouldn't be enjoyable.

I think having good thyroid function can keep you alert that after a certain point it will become harmful. However, if you pass that point and that weakens your thyroid function, you probalby lose your ability to realize that increasing the intensity would further destroy your thyroid function.
 

max219

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I ran competitively for 7-8 years, usually up to 70-85 miles per week for a good chunk of the year. I ran them at a fast pace too, ranging between 7:00 and 8:00 minute mile pace. I also raced often pushing myself to my limit.

I haven't ran in a year now, but I definitely know running wasn't good for me. It was fun for the first few years, but if I wasn't on a college scholarship I would have quit. I was always tired, weak, had no energy, lacked motivation. When I stopped running I put on body fat easily (I also wasn't eating as much as I should have while running in the later years). It feels good not to run anymore haha.

I do coach competitive runners now in high school and college, and I have to say that it varies from person to person. I think the newer you are to the sport (like the first few years I started), it does not seem as problematic. Also, some people are just meant to run. You have those kids that run a 9:00 minute mile in gym class and those who run a 5:00 minute mile.
 

tinkerer

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haidut said:
After all these years mainstream science is finally admitting that the lower heart rates in endurance athletes are NOT healthy.
Thanks for the link. This will be helpful in responding to someone's contradiction of my making this very point earlier today, coincidentally.
 

burtlancast

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I think it's safe to make a distinction between exercising BEFORE 20 years old and AFTER.

Young people have much energy to burn off; but after 21, things start really to slow down, and as Ray wrote, it becomes probably unhealthy as the body becomes unable to make the necessary repairs to the endured stress.

Micah True’s “Manner of Death is Natural”
Ultra runners are still puzzled by True’s sudden death. They all thought he was exceptionally fit and healthy. The Associated Press quoted two of Caballo’s friends, both of whom participated in the search in the Gila wilderness.

Scott Jurek: “It doesn’t fit with him going on a two-hour run. It wasn’t exceptionally hot. By a lot of ultra-marathoners’ standards, it was pretty simple. I doubt he was running that hard. I think it was just a matter of timing.”

Chris McDougall: “This is a guy who could set out with a little bag of ground corn, a bottle of water in his hand and be gone all day. The day before he died, he did a six-hour run.”
http://naturalrunningcenter.com/2012/05 ... omyopathy/
 

gretchen

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burtlancast said:
I think it's safe to make a distinction between exercising BEFORE 20 years old and AFTER.

Young people have much energy to burn off; but after 21, things start really to slow down, and as Ray wrote, it becomes probably unhealthy as the body becomes unable to make the necessary repairs to the endured stress.

Micah True’s “Manner of Death is Natural”
Ultra runners are still puzzled by True’s sudden death. They all thought he was exceptionally fit and healthy. The Associated Press quoted two of Caballo’s friends, both of whom participated in the search in the Gila wilderness.

Scott Jurek: “It doesn’t fit with him going on a two-hour run. It wasn’t exceptionally hot. By a lot of ultra-marathoners’ standards, it was pretty simple. I doubt he was running that hard. I think it was just a matter of timing.”

Chris McDougall: “This is a guy who could set out with a little bag of ground corn, a bottle of water in his hand and be gone all day. The day before he died, he did a six-hour run.”
http://naturalrunningcenter.com/2012/05 ... omyopathy/


This is possible. I started exercising at 16 (4-6 days a week of high intensity aerobics)and all benefits (more or less) exhausted themselves out after I turned 18. I never actually lost more than about 5 lbs, took 2 courses of the chemo drug Accutane (for cystic acne), developed signs of serious depression and also had raised triglyceride levels. My pulse in my early 20s was well below 50, maybe like 40 something.

I am actually very against vigorous exercise..... Which is why I'm happy to have found this last week:
http://mobile.dudamobile.com/site/exerc ... om%2F#2638

And
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/357925

I am getting very tired of hearing how "healthy" exercise is when I learned 1st hand 25 years ago how utterly evil it is.
 
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I don't get how Ray Peat would aknowledge a difference between an organism being twenty and being twenty-one. Stress is stress, and age is just a number.
 

Kasper

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I can't believe exercise is really always bad.
If there is one thing I feel is really toxic to me, than it is sitting all day. And if there is one thing that feels like a universal cure than it is light joyful activities.

I mean, if young people are supposed to be healthy. I don't know any young healthy kid that doesn't enjoy playing outside.

I mean, this doesn't mean pushing yourself to run for 45
min. But what about yoga, walking or dancing?

Or what about, playing in the sea, building sand castles, playing with a ball, or whatever kids do?
 

Kasper

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Besides that, you can say much about exercise, bit it does raise your metabolism, while your exercising, quite obviously. I heard one time Danny Roddy talking that the main thing why thyroid is healthy is because it increases at production. Well without any doubt, that is what exercising dues as well. If you can find and exercise that doesn't slow down your metabolism after the exercise, I think it can only be a win win situation.
 

Milklove

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I think we also have to make a distinction between exercising for the sake of exercising and exercising as a recreational activity.
If you are for example building sand castles or playing in the sea, you probably won't do this until the point of total exhaustion and it will provide mental stimulation, which is good for you.
 

Milklove

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It is really interesting, that the brain plays such a great role in exercising.

“While jogging became popular for preventing heart disease, we were frequently told by experts how many miles a person has to run to burn off a pound of fat. However, in Russia, physiologists always remember to include the brain in their calculations, and it turns out that a walk through interesting and pleasant surroundings consumes more energy than does harder but more boring exercise. An active brain consumes a tremendous amount of fuel.” - Ray Peat
 

Danmcakes

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As a former very avid runner, this realization, which came as a result of reading Peat was very difficult to accept. I really enjoyed running, but it was undeniable that it was ruining my joints and, according to this article, my heart as well. After all these years mainstream science is finally admitting that the lower heart rates in endurance athletes are NOT healthy.

Endurance exercise 'interferes with heart rhythm' - BBC News

"...Athletes beware - endurance training may make it more likely that you will need a pacemaker, scientists believe."

Here is the study in case anyone wants to read it.
http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms4775
 

jitsmonkey

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I can't believe exercise is really always bad.
If there is one thing I feel is really toxic to me, than it is sitting all day. And if there is one thing that feels like a universal cure than it is light joyful activities.

I mean, if young people are supposed to be healthy. I don't know any young healthy kid that doesn't enjoy playing outside.

I mean, this doesn't mean pushing yourself to run for 45
min. But what about yoga, walking or dancing?

Or what about, playing in the sea, building sand castles, playing with a ball, or whatever kids do?


Kasper stimulating activity, movement, etc are not bad in any way.
Its just context that matters. All the things you mentioned are for the most part low stress, compelling, engaging enjoyable activities
Nothing wrong or bad about those at all. Yes some yoga and dance folks turn their activity into a counter productive one but you should never be afraid of intellectually stimulating activities as you listed.

the constant discussion against exercise in the RP world is about the cultural model of exercise as a chore or necessary stressor.
Stimulating enjoyable activity/movement/etc that doesn't make constant enormous physiologic withdrawls is good good medicine
 

zztr

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I believe the hormesis arguments with regard to exercise. People just tend to way underestimate the recovery time necessary for properly stressful training sessions. Marathons: bad. Bodybuilding: bad. One five miler and one strength training session per week: good, assuming you have sleep and diet dialed in.
 

Agent207

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Endurance doesn't look healthy unless one truly enjoys with it. I personally don't like it, but there's people that doesn't like it neither but they forces themselve because the popular belief that is "very healthy".

As for the overtraining there's isnt an optimal number of sessions per week for everybody; it depended much on individual stress tolerance and in balance with the rest of stressors are a stressors of each one lifestyle.

If you have no economical dependence, travel and do whatever you like when you like, all day for playing around and relaxing, no emotional stress, no kids, no health issues, lots of women... etc. I bet you could easily train several hours per day and reap the benefits with no burden overall. This is an extreme example to explain that overtraining doesn't just depend on a fixed amount of workload, but much more on individual circumstances.
 

Milena

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Maffetone has research a while and empirically recommends low HR training i.e in the proper aerobic zone below the lactate threshold and anaerobic for racing only or minimally. He does, however suggest low carb for endurance athletes but since they're doing things like 100 milers they probably need it.
 
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