Endotoxin And Iron Finally Recognized As Potential Causes Of Many Diseases

[natedawggh]

I sometimes use vitamin B1 to get rid of body odor. I assume it is lactate causing the odor in my case.

Why do you think iron is insolved? What's the link between iron and vitamin B1?

Yes like tankasnowgod said, it's the iron excretion through the skin, bacteria thrive in high iron environments.

 

[CKA]

thankfully instead of giving blood I can just floss every once in a while :p

 

[Xisca]

I can drink OJ only when it has no pulp (pectine problem?).
So I filter and make marmelade with the rest.
ñam ñam very good!
I have also put coco oil and cacao powder in the same marmelade... and eat it by the spoonful. Delicious.

Then marmelade is indeed very good with goat cheese, and also with eggs.
Best with fresh goat cheese.

At the moment I put orange and lemon peels in cold water, and it seems that all is going to the drink, it can even become bitter the same as when you heat it.

 

[Braveheart]

Dear Haidut
I really see this in clinical practice, the more people block endotoxin to blood stream leakage the healthier they become. It's not trivial, since everyone is different, so combination-solutions vary, but low dose charcoal has been a god send. One lady with nasty gout, who for reasons of need can not make the profound changes to her life that might resolve this, has cut her pain killers by another half using charcoal before bed and for her that is significant progress in her quality of life. As I see it, charcoal has bound up the endotoxins just enough to take the strain off the gut, lessen the accidental load to the blood stream which reduces inflammation which then keeps the pH stable (within a very tight range anyway) and there is no precipitation of uric acid. The implications for 'rheumatoid' (so called AI, more like NFI) diseases are profound especially since kidney function is so often also involved.
Anyway, sterling stuff, it's so nice to see Dr Peat's tireless understandings finally surfacing for those with eyes to see.
Thank you for all the brilliant work you post to keep us abreast of things. It is most appreciated.
Sincerely
Sheila

Hi Sheila,
What do you consider low dose charcoal?...how much do you use without disturbing your nutrient uptake...any suggestion for maintenance protocol?

 

[Sheila]

Hello John
A couple of 300mg capsules with something sweet, or juice, at night seems to work well for some. Oddly some find the charcoal tablets better than the capsules, I am not sure why that is (the dose amount is the same). Most report better sleep, better clarity of thought - this is for USP charcoal, which Dr Peat has said might get persorbed (particle size being quite small). Since I can not stomach the larger particle size - and wonder what hard charcoal 'grits' might do to the gut lining any way (although some go very well on it) - this is what I use. I was initially concerned about nutrient uptake but at these levels, it doesn't seem to affect me, or others who are working with it. I can not be absolutely sure but one would expect to see something deleterious to that effect and, so far, 3 months+ I have not. The only thing I am careful with charocla is that the bowel remains regular. If I notice, longer term, any negative effects, I will be sure to post. As ever ones intuition probably remains the best guide.
Best regards
Sheila

 

[Braveheart]

Hello John
A couple of 300mg capsules with something sweet, or juice, at night seems to work well for some. Oddly some find the charcoal tablets better than the capsules, I am not sure why that is (the dose amount is the same). Most report better sleep, better clarity of thought - this is for USP charcoal, which Dr Peat has said might get persorbed (particle size being quite small). Since I can not stomach the larger particle size - and wonder what hard charcoal 'grits' might do to the gut lining any way (although some go very well on it) - this is what I use. I was initially concerned about nutrient uptake but at these levels, it doesn't seem to affect me, or others who are working with it. I can not be absolutely sure but one would expect to see something deleterious to that effect and, so far, 3 months+ I have not. The only thing I am careful with charocla is that the bowel remains regular. If I notice, longer term, any negative effects, I will be sure to post. As ever ones intuition probably remains the best guide.
Best regards
Sheila

Thanks Sheila!

 

[tara]

Can someone please explain the difference between Lipopolysaccharide and endotoxin, also what are the different sources of these?

Endotoxins are substances that are part of the cell wall of gram-negative bacteria, and that are somewhat toxic to us. Lipopolysaccharides are the most common endotoxins. When the bacteria die in the gut, the endotoxin is released. Depending on things like gut permeability and transit speed and possibly what else is around in the gut at the time, more or less of it can make it's way through the gut barrier into the system, where it becomes a burden for the liver etc.

There are lists of gram-negative bacteria and gram-positive bacteria you can hunt up on the web. Some of them are common gut bacteria.

 

[yerrag]

Endotoxins are substances that are part of the cell wall of gram-negative bacteria, and that are somewhat toxic to us. Lipopolysaccharides are the most common endotoxins. When the bacteria die in the gut, the endotoxin is released. Depending on things like gut permeability and transit speed and possibly what else is around in the gut at the time, more or less of it can make it's way through the gut barrier into the system, where it becomes a burden for the liver etc.

There are lists of gram-negative bacteria and gram-positive bacteria you can hunt up on the web. Some of them are common gut bacteria.

Does the reduction of endotoxins help with reducing incidence of UTI? I suppose I should also ask the same about the source bacteria for the endotoxins.

 

[tara]

Does the reduction of endotoxins help with reducing incidence of UTI? I suppose I should also ask the same about the source bacteria for the endotoxins.

Here's my non-expert but unfortunately somewhat experienced take on UTIs.
AIUI, one of the most common causes of UTIs is e coli, which is normally abundant in the lower gut, getting into the urinary tract, where it does not belong at all. Preventing UTIs is not so much about reducing e coli in the gut, or about reducing the transfer of endotoxin into the system via the gut, as it is about effectively preventing its transfer to the urinary tract, effectively flushing out any that do get in, and neutralising any remaining ones to prevent adherence to the tract lining and replication. Thorough hygiene, esp. round any risky activities, to hinder ingress. Drinking enough water with maybe something alkalinising (eg lemon juice) may be helpful for flushing. Cranberry juice has been shown to help disrupt adhesion and replication. Some people swear by D-mannose, which I think may be one of the key constituents in cranberry juice. Once an infection is established, it's quite likely that none of these will be sufficiently effective, and antibiotics may be needed. If it comes to that, I wouldn't mess around - they can get to the kidneys and do serious long term harm. I'd be going for antibiotics if prevention or early self treatment didn't work very quickly.

 

[yerrag]

Here's my non-expert but unfortunately somewhat experienced take on UTIs.
AIUI, one of the most common causes of UTIs is e coli, which is normally abundant in the lower gut, getting into the urinary tract, where it does not belong at all. Preventing UTIs is not so much about reducing e coli in the gut, or about reducing the transfer of endotoxin into the system via the gut, as it is about effectively preventing its transfer to the urinary tract, effectively flushing out any that do get in, and neutralising any remaining ones to prevent adherence to the tract lining and replication. Thorough hygiene, esp. round any risky activities, to hinder ingress. Drinking enough water with maybe something alkalinising (eg lemon juice) may be helpful for flushing. Cranberry juice has been shown to help disrupt adhesion and replication. Some people swear by D-mannose, which I think may be one of the key constituents in cranberry juice. Once an infection is established, it's quite likely that none of these will be sufficiently effective, and antibiotics may be needed. If it comes to that, I wouldn't mess around - they can get to the kidneys and do serious long term harm. I'd be going for antibiotics if prevention or early self treatment didn't work very quickly.

I was hoping reducing endotoxins would help, but you're right in that the effect would pale in comparison to practicing good hygiene. And yes, d-mannose is very effective in keeping the bacteria in the urinary tract under control. In fact, I rely on it so much for my mom's condition. Even if my mom has chronic UTI, I have to limit the use of antibiotics because hygiene conditions are hard to maintain on a consistent basis for someone using diapers for incontinence, and frequent antibiotic use risks making bacteria resistant to the available antibiotics.

So, d-mannose is my main supplement for this condition. It flushes away the bacteria together with the urine. It would be ideal if the bacteria doesn't find its way back to the urinary tract, but the moist conditions in a diaper virtually guarantees the bacteria gets to re-infect.

Currently, we are reducing the use of diapers to minimize unhygienic conditions. Still, there are times diapers are needed, and re-infection is a given. Next on tap is cyproheptadine. I'm hoping its anticholinergic action will help restore the function of her urinary sphincter, and the problem of incontinence will be solved. Also hoping progesterone will also help. Just waiting for my shipment to arrive.

Thanks Tara!

 

[Kyle M]

Endotoxin and LPS terms are mostly interchangeable, and though there's a common structure associated with them, there are many variations.

There are many factors modulating intestinal permeability, and don't have to achieve gut sterility to significantly reduce LPS exposure; in fact, there may even be bacterial species that could help improve gut permeability issues; stress has been shown to induce leaky gut symptoms, so stress reduction techniques may go a long way to prevent LPS entry into bloodstream. A healthy digestive system will secrete necessary agents that help maintain gut flora in check, and things like carrot/bamboo shoot salad and charcoal as promoted by RP will also help purge out the flora junk out.

Endotoxin and LPS are interchangeable, but LPS and LPS are not necessarily interchangeable. Different bacteria produce different lipids and sugar moieties. There's also lipopeptides and flagella that are loosely defined as "endotoxin" in immune research.

 

[tara]

And yes, d-mannose is very effective in keeping the bacteria in the urinary tract under control.

I've heard there are elder care accommodation places that regularly serve cranberry juice to all the inhabitants for just this reason. And I've also heard of infections getting out of hand and dangerous from time to time, both in and out of such institutions.
Good luck to her and you.

 

[Milena]

Been doing some quick research into other Iron solutions related to this post on blood born bacterial endotoxin. The bioflavonoid hesperidin is apparently a strong iron removal agent. Peat mentions in an article about a scientist curing his bleeding gums from extracts of lemon, from whence he discovered "vitamin P" which became flavonoids. Citrus bioflavonoids have shown particularly strong health benefits for many illnesses. It would make sense for endotoxin to be involved in vascular leakiness/insufficiency, and citrus flavonoids are used all over the world to treat just that. This study used the citrus flavonoid hesperidin to decrease iron stores.
"The level of accumulated iron was significantly decreased by feeding a diet with glucosyl hesperidin..." Involvement of splenic iron accumulation in the development of nonalcoholic steatohepatitis in Tsumura Suzuki Obese Diabetes mice

Interestingly, @Drareg posted this today: The Thyroid Hormone Inactivating Enzyme Type 3 Deiodinase Is Present In Bactericidal Granules And Th about how bacteria possibly inactivate thyroid locally in the blood via a particular enzyme. Turns out that citrus bioflavonoids actually kill these bacteria, and in so doing probably prevent this bacterial enzyme from working.

Hesperidin can be purchased by supplement, but it is also most abundant in the peels and pith of citrus fruits, and is also apparently very heat tolerant (so it can be cooked). So incorporating the skins of citrus into foods or eating whole citrus would be more beneficial to the reduction of bacteria and iron, and increasing local thyroid function.

Humans/Primates are some of few mammals incapable of making our own vitamin C. It seems this would have developed from our natural diet high in fruits, so it wouldn't be surprising that fruits hold more biological importance for us as a species than just vitamin C. As Dr. Peat is very pro-fruit and recommends orange juice, I think a logical addition to any health therapy would be a large helping of whole citrus each day.

Also...many studies show hesperidin protects against abnormal lipid peroxidation, which is one of the perils of thyroid disease.

I've been battling oedema, most obviously in my legs, feet and hands. The doc prescribed spironolactone but I've tried to stop it because of the side-effects and limited affect on the problem. I had been eating whole, peeled, blended oranges with good effect for a while but move my diet and removed the pith Ala RP, I used pith-free juice

After a period of unpleasant oedema that salt or magnesium wouldn't help, I've added it back in to good effect. Luckily, I don't get noticeable detrimental affects on my gut - endotoxins may be generated but I can't identify those symptoms.
In short, blended orange with pith may be worth as an additional support - I don't think they work long-term - does the body compensate? - but as a short-term hit - fantastic.

N=1 and all that

 

[Amazoniac]

The forum has covered various iron removal strategies but none of them are as viable as prescription chelators, for instance I can't give blood because I'm gay

This is strange but also an easy fix. Arrive there for a donation singing. But after blood is drawn, you say: no wait, it just occurred to me that for the last 2 days I've been camping out for a Beyoncé concert to be as close to the stage as possible. If the person becomes confused, you can show a star contour tattoo. Apparently there's only one non-gaylord in the world that has it.

 

[Kray]

Been doing some quick research into other Iron solutions related to this post on blood born bacterial endotoxin. The bioflavonoid hesperidin is apparently a strong iron removal agent. Peat mentions in an article about a scientist curing his bleeding gums from extracts of lemon, from whence he discovered "vitamin P" which became flavonoids. Citrus bioflavonoids have shown particularly strong health benefits for many illnesses. It would make sense for endotoxin to be involved in vascular leakiness/insufficiency, and citrus flavonoids are used all over the world to treat just that. This study used the citrus flavonoid hesperidin to decrease iron stores.
"The level of accumulated iron was significantly decreased by feeding a diet with glucosyl hesperidin..." Involvement of splenic iron accumulation in the development of nonalcoholic steatohepatitis in Tsumura Suzuki Obese Diabetes mice

Interestingly, @Drareg posted this today: The Thyroid Hormone Inactivating Enzyme Type 3 Deiodinase Is Present In Bactericidal Granules And Th about how bacteria possibly inactivate thyroid locally in the blood via a particular enzyme. Turns out that citrus bioflavonoids actually kill these bacteria, and in so doing probably prevent this bacterial enzyme from working.

Hesperidin can be purchased by supplement, but it is also most abundant in the peels and pith of citrus fruits, and is also apparently very heat tolerant (so it can be cooked). So incorporating the skins of citrus into foods or eating whole citrus would be more beneficial to the reduction of bacteria and iron, and increasing local thyroid function.

Humans/Primates are some of few mammals incapable of making our own vitamin C. It seems this would have developed from our natural diet high in fruits, so it wouldn't be surprising that fruits hold more biological importance for us as a species than just vitamin C. As Dr. Peat is very pro-fruit and recommends orange juice, I think a logical addition to any health therapy would be a large helping of whole citrus each day.

Also...many studies show hesperidin protects against abnormal lipid peroxidation, which is one of the perils of thyroid disease.

@natedawggh

This was a very helpful post. I've used citrus bioflavonoids in the past and just recently purchased them again, BEFORE I read this thread. Now I'm really encouraged to try this as a supplement for a time in place of horsechestnut extract to treat my varicose veins. The formula I found has an added 150mg hesperidin.

Optimally, the whole fruit? I think this is wise. I agree that there are many things we're missing in (pasteurized) oj that are complete in the fruit, and protected.

Any updates on bioflavonoids, etc would be great!

 

[golder]

Yes like tankasnowgod said, it's the iron excretion through the skin, bacteria thrive in high iron environments.

@natedawggh

What's your thoughts on these two? Really interested to hear:
Natural Factors, Citrus Bioflavonoids plus Hesperidin, 650 mg, 90 Capsules
Doctor's Best, Best Hesperidin, Methyl Chalcone, 500 mg, 60 Veggie Caps