Endotoxin And Fat Consumption

[lindsay]

I've tried CTRL + F but found nothing in the article regarding raw foods, cooked foods, meat and fish?

Sorry - that was entirely my mistake. I tend to do things like this when reading articles. I looked up Glutamine rich foods and everything I found says that glutamine is destroyed when subjected to cooking (especially in vegetables). So raw meats and seafoods will have more glutamine than their cooked counterparts. Whether or not the body can use it is likely up for debate.

 

[Parsifal]

Sorry - that was entirely my mistake. I tend to do things like this when reading articles. I looked up Glutamine rich foods and everything I found says that glutamine is destroyed when subjected to cooking (especially in vegetables). So raw meats and seafoods will have more glutamine than their cooked counterparts. Whether or not the body can use it is likely up for debate.

I've read that glutamine is not that cool since it increases cortisol in the long term (so maybe short term tightening of the junction and long term making it leaky?).

 

[lindsay]

I've read that glutamine is not that cool since it increases cortisol in the long term (so maybe short term tightening of the junction and long term making it leaky?).

A quick google search and everything I am seeing is leading to the exact opposite - that cortisol & excess stress depletes glutamine in the body. But I would have to do a detailed search. In any case, dairy was also listed as a good food to help decrease intestinal permeability.

 

[Parsifal]

A quick google search and everything I am seeing is leading to the exact opposite - that cortisol & excess stress depletes glutamine in the body. But I would have to do a detailed search. In any case, dairy was also listed as a good food to help decrease intestinal permeability.

Interesting, I'm not sure then but haidut posted this study some times ago: Glutamic Acid Doubles Prolactin And Cortisol In Humans

 

[Derek]

Interesting, I'm not sure then but haidut posted this study some times ago: Glutamic Acid Doubles Prolactin And Cortisol In Humans

Then why is milk and gelatin so widely recommended here? These 2 foods contain more glutamic acid per gram of protein than any other foods.

 

[lindsay]

Interesting, I'm not sure then but haidut posted this study some times ago: Glutamic Acid Doubles Prolactin And Cortisol In Humans

The study had to do with a supplement, no? I would imagine getting glutamine from foods is different than taking a supplement. Dairy has glutamine too - most proteins contain it naturally.

 

[Parsifal]

Then why is milk and gelatin so widely recommended here? These 2 foods contain more glutamic acid per gram of protein than any other foods.

I don't tolerate well either of these two foods. Everything said here is contextual, there is no one size fits all unfortunately.

 

[lollipop]

Everything said here is contextual, there is no one size fits all unfortunately.

Soooo true! Be on this platform for even a month and this becomes blatantly obvious. What I have universally seen is positive results from minimizing PUFA pretty much for most and definitely myself.

 

[lollipop]

Here is an interesting note to this conversation:

"Researchers have now demonstrated how the toxin CDT of C. difficile bacteria forms harmful cellular protrusions."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160705121925.htm

 

[lollipop]

And this kind of study frightens me especially coming out of Harvard:

Consuming higher amounts of unsaturated fats was associated with lower mortality rates, according to a new study. The researchers found higher consumption of saturated and trans fats was linked with higher mortality compared with the same number of calories from carbohydrates. This study provides further support for the 2015-2020 Dietary Guidelines for Americans that emphasize the types of fat rather than total amount of fat in the diet.


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160705120026.htm

 

[Amazoniac]

People that didn't speak in class today;
Jeremy;

Although this subject is mostly discussed in studies funded by the dairy industry, I think that it's still relevant and possibly valuable. A part of milk fat that's greatly lost when butter is made.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022030211001962

"While MFGM is present in all dairy products to some extent, churn buttermilk, a coproduct of butter production, is especially enriched in this membrane fraction. When milk fat is churned, the membrane surrounding the fat globules is disrupted, and the free fat is released as globules coalesce. The result of this process is a solid fat phase, butter, and an aqueous phase, churn buttermilk, which has a long history of anecdotal health-promoting associations."

"In support of this hypothesis, PAS 6/7 [also known as milk fat globule–EGF factor-8/lactadherin (MFG-E8)], a protein component of MFGM, is an important endogenous factor in maintaining epithelial homeostasis and mucosal integrity of the intestinal tract. In fact, treatment of septic mice i.p. with recombinant MFG-E8 improved mucosal healing (Bu et al., 2007). Additionally, polar lipids, such as those found in MFGM, have been linked to improved resistance of epithelia to stress (Dial and Lichtenberger, 1984, 1987; Kivinen et al., 1995; Park et al., 2007; Dial et al., 2008)."

"Systemically, LPS induces an inflammatory response mimicking gastrointestinal injury, and has been used in numerous studies to emulate the inflammatory response seen in gram-negative bacterial infections (Dial et al., 2008)."

"The serum fluorescence of animals fed the control diet and challenged with LPS was significantly higher than that of animals fed the milk fat diet and challenged with LPS, suggesting the membrane-rich milk fat diet exerted a protective effect against gastrointestinal leakiness (Figure 3)."

"One unexpected result in this study was the death of all animals fed the control diet and treated with LPS at the 48-h time point. This finding coincides with increased gut leakiness and expression of the inflammatory cytokines IL-6, IL-10, IL-17, MCP-1, IFN-γ, TNF-α, and IL-3 in LPS-injected animals fed the control diets compared with membrane-rich milk fat diet-fed cohorts. However, it is unclear as to whether the observed decrease in gut permeability and circulating inflammatory cytokine levels protected the milk fat-fed animals from death at the 48-h time point."

"The major difference in the diets was the fat composition, with the milk fat diet containing fewer polyunsaturated fatty acids, a lower n6:n3 ratio, more polar lipids, and short-chain fatty acids. Although the diets did contain similar levels of total protein, the membrane-rich milk fat diet contained proteins originating from the MFGM."

"One class of MFGM proteins, the mucins, are resistant to host digestive enzymes, and may have indirectly offered protection in our study via binding and neutralizing gram-negative bacteria. Previous studies have shown that mucins are resistant to host digestion (Ward et al., 2005) and effectively bind gram-negative species such as Escherichia coli ( Schroten et al., 1992). It is conceivable that the mucins may decrease the numbers of certain bacteria in the gut and thus, secondary exposure to gut-derived LPS in animals suffering from gastrointestinal hypermeability."

"Several previous studies, both in vitro and in vivo, have demonstrated the ability of milk-derived constituents to strengthen the gut barrier. For example, with mammary and kidney cells in culture, Stelwagen and Ormrod (1998) showed that a component of whey from cows immunized with a multivalent bacterial vaccine prevented barrier leakiness induced by EGTA and enhanced restoration of the barrier after 24 h. According to the authors, the component responsible was primarily carbohydrate in nature. In rats subjected to heat stress, Prosser et al. (2004) demonstrated that supplementation with 0.4 g/d with either bovine colostrum or goat milk powder decreased permeability of the gut to 27 and 10% of the control values, respectively. Although the factor responsible for stimulating gut barrier resistance to heat was not identified in the colostrum or milk powers, it was not associated with either the casein or the fat fraction, as both were removed in the preparation of powders used in a preliminary cell culture experiment. In a more recent study, bovine colostrum was shown to decrease intestinal barrier damage, bacterial translocation, and the accompanying systemic inflammatory response induced by ischemia/reperfusion (I/R) injury in Sprague-Dawley rats when compared with saline and skim milk (Choi et al., 2009). Unlike the previous studies, the colostrum used as a treatment in their work was applied after the gut injury was induced via the I/R stress. Taken together, these data, along with the results of our study, indicate that certain components of milk may have the ability to protect the gut barrier against stress-induced leakiness and also may have the ability to decrease the systemic damage that occurs from a dysfunctional gut barrier. Interestingly, in newborn infants, the gut barrier is not fully developed and is permeable to intact sugars and proteins (Weaver et al., 1984), and thus, one can hypothesize that components of milk might specifically improve gut function."

"According to Dial et al. (2008), orally administered phosphatidylcholine (PC; 100 mg/kg) in rats, when provided 1 h before i.p. injection of LPS, significantly decreases the permeability of both gastric and ileal tissues, yet does not prevent the systemic TNF-α response or the increase in gastric fluid volume."

 

[Amazoniac]

Shiny happy people laughing,

We often read that loss of microbial diversity is associated with metabolic problems. However, it seems that this is just a consequence of an environment that is less dynamic. When gut motility is impaired for example, food remains for longer in the intestines and it tends to reach some sort of stability, letting pathogens thrive better with less competition, so the diversity diminishes.
I always wondered why casein is a protein that digests slowly. And I wonder if this is related to the fact that proteins are safer when they remain in the stomach, as seen in strict carnivore animals that digest the whole prey slowly; the food remains in the stomach in a very acidic environment, this way it prevents bacterial growth. To some degree, the same for casein..?

I don't know if this is valid (and please point out if it's not), especially considering that most of the material related to it comes from people associated with A2 milk, mostly open access, etc; but they confidently state that A1 casein can impair gut motility and diminish antioxidant capacity in susceptible people (BCM-7, GI motility, opioids, you know the story). If that's true, it's worth experimenting with other milchen. But in fact, anything that slows down motility is probably detrimental..
An example: http://www.jnutbio.com/article/S0955-2863(14)00114-4/pdf

 

[EIRE24]

Shiny happy people laughing,

We often read that loss of microbial diversity is associated with metabolic problems. However, it seems that this is just a consequence of an environment that is less dynamic. When gut motility is impaired for example, food remains for longer in the intestines and it tends to reach some sort of stability, letting pathogens thrive better with less competition, so the diversity diminishes.
I always wondered why casein is a protein that digests slowly. And I wonder if this is related to the fact that proteins are safer when they remain in the stomach, as seen in strict carnivore animals that digest the whole prey slowly; the food remains in the stomach in a very acidic environment, this way it prevents bacterial growth. To some degree, the same for casein..?

I don't know if this is valid (and please point out if it's not), especially considering that most of the material related to it comes from people associated with A2 milk, mostly open access, etc; but they confidently state that A1 casein can impair gut motility and diminish antioxidant capacity in susceptible people (BCM-7, GI motility, opioids, you know the story). If that's true, it's worth experimenting with other milchen. But in fact, anything that slows down motility is probably detrimental..
An example: http://www.jnutbio.com/article/S0955-2863(14)00114-4/pdf

I find this very interesting. I have suffered from acne and bad skin ever since finding Ray peat and the foods that he reccomends. I used to eat a lot of starch for carbs and switched to an all fruit diet and lots of sugar and refined carbs. I always thought that it was the case that I may have messed up my gut microbiota? I wonder what would be the best way to reverse this?

 

[lollipop]

I find this very interesting. I have suffered from acne and bad skin ever since finding Ray peat and the foods that he reccomends. I used to eat a lot of starch for carbs and switched to an all fruit diet and lots of sugar and refined carbs. I always thought that it was the case that I may have messed up my gut microbiota? I wonder what would be the best way to reverse this?

Hi @EIRE24 - I can tell you what I did for me and my husband to heal our guts after long suffering - trying everything else and it not working. It is not a Ray Peat recommendation so take it as you will.

High high doses on empty stomach of digestive enzymes (see photo - large bottle) - like 10 twice daily (one just before bed). My husband's gut was not as bad as mine. I only gave him 10 once a day at night.

AND used the combo (see photo) of all three with each meal.

The research behind it is on this site:

Enzyme Dosing Guidelines

Worked like a charm! Within one week of high dosing on empty stomach between food - my gut was 85 % better. Within a month totally healed. Why I bring this up is it also healed my husband's facial and scalp acne. I also put tea tree oil on the red bumps morning and night. The two together worked like a charm.

My memory serves me that Ray has suggested enzymes when all else failed. Don't quote me on that one.

 

[Milkmeateggs]

Hi @EIRE24 - I can tell you what I did for me and my husband to heal our guts after long suffering - trying everything else and it not working. It is not a Ray Peat recommendation so take it as you will.

High high doses on empty stomach of digestive enzymes (see photo - large bottle) - like 10 twice daily (one just before bed). My husband's gut was not as bad as mine. I only gave him 10 once a day at night.

AND used the combo (see photo) of all three with each meal.

The research behind it is on this site:

Enzyme Dosing Guidelines

Worked like a charm! Within one week of high dosing on empty stomach between food - my gut was 85 % better. Within a month totally healed. Why I bring this up is it also healed my husband's facial and scalp acne. I also put tea tree oil on the red bumps morning and night. The two together worked like a charm.

My memory serves me that Ray has suggested enzymes when all else failed. Don't quote me on that one.

That is interesting, I have read a lot of good things about serrapeptase on an empty stomach. Have you noticed negative symptoms after stopping it, or did the effects last?

 

[lollipop]

That is interesting, I have read a lot of good things about serrapeptase on an empty stomach. Have you noticed negative symptoms after stopping it, or did the effects last?

None! I still do the 10 digestive enzymes a few days a week at night before sleep. If you look at that site I linked, it talks about how they clean up inflammation, cancer, virus, etc etc. I see it as a potential benefit and will stay on for a while (2-3 months) for "cleanse" of sorts. Good Stuff. No side effects except right in beginning I had a day or two of loose stools as it cleaned out my gut.

 

[Amazoniac]

I find this very interesting. I have suffered from acne and bad skin ever since finding Ray peat and the foods that he reccomends. I used to eat a lot of starch for carbs and switched to an all fruit diet and lots of sugar and refined carbs. I always thought that it was the case that I may have messed up my gut microbiota? I wonder what would be the best way to reverse this?

I suggest that you start tracking simple things like aspect of poop, eyes, tongue, temperature of extremities, teeth coating; they'll guide you quite well towards less inflammation. Improving antioxidant status seems to help a lot; vit C, sel, copper, zinc (zinc-induced copper deficiency is not uncommon); good quality protein for many reasons including glutathione and liver health, proper gut integrity. Keeping blood glucose more stable: for reasons that I don't understand yet, people with acne are more susceptible to oxidative stress.
Vitamin A is also very important.

 

[lollipop]

I suggest that you start tracking simple things like aspect of poop, eyes, tongue, temperature of extremities, teeth coating; they'll guide you quite well towards less inflammation. Improving antioxidant status seems to help a lot; vit C, sel, copper, zinc (zinc-induced copper deficiency is not uncommon); good quality protein for many reasons including glutathione and liver health, proper gut integrity. Keeping blood glucose more stable: for reasons that I don't understand yet, people with acne are more susceptible to oxidative stress.
Vitamin A is also very important.

Good advice.

 

[CarbAppreciator]

Thanks for those posts @Amazoniac, great reads.

 

[Amazoniac]

Thanks for those posts @Amazoniac, great reads.

--
Ok, so everything seems connected:
If (and a big if here) there's truth to the whole a1/a2 casein story, then the majority of people consume dairy that contains that type of casein the impairs motility to different degrees.
Some people are more inflammed and so probably have poorer antioxidant status. Antioxidant status correlates quite well with intestinal motility. That's probably why West comments that in some cases, people need to temporarily give up dairy completely to restore metabolism, and maybe this is one of the factors; when you consume starches, it's best to keep the intestines dynamic to avoid problems, but at the same time, that type of dairy or any other particular food that impairs motility, would have its effects much more pronounced in people on compromised states (as mentioned).
Not only that but people consume dairy high in fats; and this might not be a problem for people in a healthy condition. But many people have a compromised liver, and despite the fact that endotoxin carried by lipoproteins are safer, it puts demand on the liver. Again, this might be an insult beyond the capacities of someone in a compromised health state.
And then people enter a vicious cycle that involves more and more inflammation, to the point of affecting glucose and protein metabolism; because in those cases you divert a lot of nutrients in attempt to resolve inflammation and keep immunity functioning. With that inflammation fatty acids start to interfere with glucose and the person might start having hyperglycemic episodes despite not eating too much sugar. 1 2 3
Improving antioxidant status seems to help with a kick start just like a thyroid supplement would, it would make an interesting experiment.
And burtlancastor oil cures it all.