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Embracing the deficit

Hans

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
4,320
This is a concept I shared in my fat loss journey thread, which I just wanted to share here as well. Maybe this can be helpful to others as well (that don't follow the fat loss thread).

-----------

In the past, I would get hungry just thinking of a deficit.

Start the deficit in the morning, cheat in the evening. Just couldn't do it. Then I would think to myself: "You know what, I want to build more strength and size, so I don't really want to diet." Also, I wasn't like fat fat, so it wasn't bothering me too much.

The reasons why I'm embracing a deficit now:
> I've near maxed out my natural potential. I can still gain maturity and more definition, but that will be a long journey over many years. Doing a deficit for 3 months or so isn't going to set me back
> It's possible to keep on gaining strength and size on a deficit; recomping. Which all depends on how much fat someone has. The leaner you get, the harder it gets. In the past, I dieted down to roughly 8% BF and didn't lose any strength. This time I'm dieting slower and might even gain strength during this phase. Also, the reduction in weight will make calisthenic exercises easier, which is one of my main strength goals (get better in certain calisthenic movements).
> 3 months of dieting is short term and will not set me back in the long run. After the diet, I can lean bulk slowly and maintain my leanness, which I didn't do last time. So that will be a win.
> I can be an example that I practice what I preach. I always practice what I preach, but I used bulking as an excuse to eat a lot.

Mental processes that held me back
> Sleep will tank
> Energy will tank
> Mood will tank
> Libido will tank
> Stress will be through the roof
> I can rather spend this time building muscle and strength (discusses above)

Research shows that when people are not aware that they are on a diet, they don't get worse mood, sleep, energy, etc, than the other people who are not in a deficit. It's the mental recognition/thought that you're going into a deficit and that believe that deficits are the cause of these problems. You manifest your own fears because of a belief. This is why I cheated on my diet on the first day multiple attempts in the past. When I found out that if someone is unaware when they are in a deficit and that they won't get stress responses then, my "stress response" symptoms immediately went away. All placebo-induced stress.

When someone does get symptoms, their deficit is usually too big or they have been dieting for too long, or their macros are suboptimal. It might be beneficial to be unaware of the deficit, but it's not a good idea to not control your diet. Another example is that if someone is doing a fast, they are not primarily doing it for fat loss, but to "improve their health" or "improve insulin sensitivity" or "gain metabolic flexibility". So when the going gets tough, they don't chicken out because it's for health and not fat loss. It's detox symptoms, not a stress response. :)

The mental aspect of dieting is very important.
 

bogbody

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2020
Messages
139
I think it’s good to talk about this. I feel like most people in alternative health circles try to deny the reality of CICO or discount it because of the other factors that play a role like hormones and food quality and while those things matter, at the end of the day CICO is still supreme, and even Peat himself tells people in interviews to eat less calories when they want to lose weight. Obviously there are many ways to achieve a deficit without counting calories and obviously working to inprove the metabolic rate is important but I think people can spend years listening to people who say things like “oh as long as you just eat blah blah specific foods” or follow blah blah protocol you can lose weight without trying, and I find that 9 times out if 10 the people who say these things are naturally slim or have never had weight issues. Whenever I tried doing any of these “effortless weightloss” protocols, I failed, and then ultimately blamed myself. And I did them because they promise I wouldn’t have to count calories, which is seen as the worst thing a person can possibly have to do, and was a message that I internalized. But after gaining 15 pounds “peating” and realizing that all of the tricks weren't working, i finally decided to just count calories, and low and behold i lost weight in an extremely reliable and predictable way, and it wasn’t a huge deal to count, nor was it stressful because I kept carbs high and my deficit small. And I lost all my intitial weight gain over the course of about 4 months.
 
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
39
I'm resonating a lot with this recently, I've tried all sorts of techniques to lean out and it's simply come down to how can I maintain a deficit. I've recently found for me is simply priotisting protein rich foods like the bodybuilding way seems to allow me to maintain the deficit for longer periods. I feel satiated and have good amounts of energy, I barely feel like I'm cutting.
 

DonLore

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
68
This is a concept I shared in my fat loss journey thread, which I just wanted to share here as well. Maybe this can be helpful to others as well (that don't follow the fat loss thread).

-----------

In the past, I would get hungry just thinking of a deficit.

Start the deficit in the morning, cheat in the evening. Just couldn't do it. Then I would think to myself: "You know what, I want to build more strength and size, so I don't really want to diet." Also, I wasn't like fat fat, so it wasn't bothering me too much.

The reasons why I'm embracing a deficit now:
> I've near maxed out my natural potential. I can still gain maturity and more definition, but that will be a long journey over many years. Doing a deficit for 3 months or so isn't going to set me back
> It's possible to keep on gaining strength and size on a deficit; recomping. Which all depends on how much fat someone has. The leaner you get, the harder it gets. In the past, I dieted down to roughly 8% BF and didn't lose any strength. This time I'm dieting slower and might even gain strength during this phase. Also, the reduction in weight will make calisthenic exercises easier, which is one of my main strength goals (get better in certain calisthenic movements).
> 3 months of dieting is short term and will not set me back in the long run. After the diet, I can lean bulk slowly and maintain my leanness, which I didn't do last time. So that will be a win.
> I can be an example that I practice what I preach. I always practice what I preach, but I used bulking as an excuse to eat a lot.

Mental processes that held me back
> Sleep will tank
> Energy will tank
> Mood will tank
> Libido will tank
> Stress will be through the roof
> I can rather spend this time building muscle and strength (discusses above)

Research shows that when people are not aware that they are on a diet, they don't get worse mood, sleep, energy, etc, than the other people who are not in a deficit. It's the mental recognition/thought that you're going into a deficit and that believe that deficits are the cause of these problems. You manifest your own fears because of a belief. This is why I cheated on my diet on the first day multiple attempts in the past. When I found out that if someone is unaware when they are in a deficit and that they won't get stress responses then, my "stress response" symptoms immediately went away. All placebo-induced stress.

When someone does get symptoms, their deficit is usually too big or they have been dieting for too long, or their macros are suboptimal. It might be beneficial to be unaware of the deficit, but it's not a good idea to not control your diet. Another example is that if someone is doing a fast, they are not primarily doing it for fat loss, but to "improve their health" or "improve insulin sensitivity" or "gain metabolic flexibility". So when the going gets tough, they don't chicken out because it's for health and not fat loss. It's detox symptoms, not a stress response. :)

The mental aspect of dieting is very important.
Thats new info about diet stress being only "mental". But when approaching 10% bodyfat and under, wouldnt there be actual stress also, since its close to unhealthy body fat level? But most people diet down from 20% or 25% so not very relevant to those people. I remember when I was maybe 9% I started getting super hungry and had signs of stress if not able to eat something
 

Hans

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
4,320
I think it’s good to talk about this. I feel like most people in alternative health circles try to deny the reality of CICO or discount it because of the other factors that play a role like hormones and food quality and while those things matter, at the end of the day CICO is still supreme, and even Peat himself tells people in interviews to eat less calories when they want to lose weight. Obviously there are many ways to achieve a deficit without counting calories and obviously working to inprove the metabolic rate is important but I think people can spend years listening to people who say things like “oh as long as you just eat blah blah specific foods” or follow blah blah protocol you can lose weight without trying, and I find that 9 times out if 10 the people who say these things are naturally slim or have never had weight issues. Whenever I tried doing any of these “effortless weightloss” protocols, I failed, and then ultimately blamed myself. And I did them because they promise I wouldn’t have to count calories, which is seen as the worst thing a person can possibly have to do, and was a message that I internalized. But after gaining 15 pounds “peating” and realizing that all of the tricks weren't working, i finally decided to just count calories, and low and behold i lost weight in an extremely reliable and predictable way, and it wasn’t a huge deal to count, nor was it stressful because I kept carbs high and my deficit small. And I lost all my intitial weight gain over the course of about 4 months.
For sure. People who make it work without counting just create a deficit in another way. And that can be "dangerous" because that can lead to severe undereating and/or missing out on very important nutrients.
 

Hans

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
4,320
I'm resonating a lot with this recently, I've tried all sorts of techniques to lean out and it's simply come down to how can I maintain a deficit. I've recently found for me is simply priotisting protein rich foods like the bodybuilding way seems to allow me to maintain the deficit for longer periods. I feel satiated and have good amounts of energy, I barely feel like I'm cutting.
Jip, nothing really works like being consistent with a deficit. However you create it. Even if it doesn't feel like one. Protein is the bomb for sure. What protein sources do you go for?
 

Hans

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
4,320
Thats new info about diet stress being only "mental". But when approaching 10% bodyfat and under, wouldnt there be actual stress also, since its close to unhealthy body fat level? But most people diet down from 20% or 25% so not very relevant to those people. I remember when I was maybe 9% I started getting super hungry and had signs of stress if not able to eat something
For sure, the leaner you get, the more stressful it becomes. That's why people make their deficit even smaller as they get leaner. BBers on stage that get shredded go completely hypogonadal. But that's their sport. To go below 9% safely and with minimal stress is a long-term journey. You have to make the deficit very small and "teach" your body that it's not starving. Also at that BF % it's important to listen better. If you're extra tired that day, increase calories a bit. Not so hungry, move a bit more or eat a bit less. But never rush it.
 

Sefton10

Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2019
Messages
1,154
Hans have you watched Chris Bumstead’s YouTube videos? His diet vids on the run in to his latest Mr Olympia win were a good watch. Just brutal the levels they go to to make their diets on a cut as filling as possible. Definitely a massive mental component to it. Even seeing how he’s reverse dieting out of it now are wild. Just ridiculous levels of discipline.
 

Sam321

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
581
This is a concept I shared in my fat loss journey thread, which I just wanted to share here as well. Maybe this can be helpful to others as well (that don't follow the fat loss thread).

-----------

In the past, I would get hungry just thinking of a deficit.

Start the deficit in the morning, cheat in the evening. Just couldn't do it. Then I would think to myself: "You know what, I want to build more strength and size, so I don't really want to diet." Also, I wasn't like fat fat, so it wasn't bothering me too much.

The reasons why I'm embracing a deficit now:
> I've near maxed out my natural potential. I can still gain maturity and more definition, but that will be a long journey over many years. Doing a deficit for 3 months or so isn't going to set me back
> It's possible to keep on gaining strength and size on a deficit; recomping. Which all depends on how much fat someone has. The leaner you get, the harder it gets. In the past, I dieted down to roughly 8% BF and didn't lose any strength. This time I'm dieting slower and might even gain strength during this phase. Also, the reduction in weight will make calisthenic exercises easier, which is one of my main strength goals (get better in certain calisthenic movements).
> 3 months of dieting is short term and will not set me back in the long run. After the diet, I can lean bulk slowly and maintain my leanness, which I didn't do last time. So that will be a win.
> I can be an example that I practice what I preach. I always practice what I preach, but I used bulking as an excuse to eat a lot.

Mental processes that held me back
> Sleep will tank
> Energy will tank
> Mood will tank
> Libido will tank
> Stress will be through the roof
> I can rather spend this time building muscle and strength (discusses above)

Research shows that when people are not aware that they are on a diet, they don't get worse mood, sleep, energy, etc, than the other people who are not in a deficit. It's the mental recognition/thought that you're going into a deficit and that believe that deficits are the cause of these problems. You manifest your own fears because of a belief. This is why I cheated on my diet on the first day multiple attempts in the past. When I found out that if someone is unaware when they are in a deficit and that they won't get stress responses then, my "stress response" symptoms immediately went away. All placebo-induced stress.

When someone does get symptoms, their deficit is usually too big or they have been dieting for too long, or their macros are suboptimal. It might be beneficial to be unaware of the deficit, but it's not a good idea to not control your diet. Another example is that if someone is doing a fast, they are not primarily doing it for fat loss, but to "improve their health" or "improve insulin sensitivity" or "gain metabolic flexibility". So when the going gets tough, they don't chicken out because it's for health and not fat loss. It's detox symptoms, not a stress response. :)

The mental aspect of dieting is very important.

The mental aspect of everything is important. The mind is primary IMO. For every negative thought or feeling you have, there is a corresponding hormonal reaction in your body. If 80% of your day is spent think about how things "won't work out" or are stuck in trauma loops, your body will fall apart.

That said, I also think it is one of the most difficult things to get a grip on. Some cool resources are R.A.I.N. (Tara Brach), Psilocybin, and trying to recenter your life passions.

Skål!
 

Hans

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
4,320
The mental aspect of everything is important. The mind is primary IMO. For every negative thought or feeling you have, there is a corresponding hormonal reaction in your body. If 80% of your day is spent think about how things "won't work out" or are stuck in trauma loops, your body will fall apart.

That said, I also think it is one of the most difficult things to get a grip on. Some cool resources are R.A.I.N. (Tara Brach), Psilocybin, and trying to recenter your life passions.

Skål!
Very true!
 
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
39
Jip, nothing really works like being consistent with a deficit. However you create it. Even if it doesn't feel like one. Protein is the bomb for sure. What protein sources do you go for?
I'm finding FAGE 0% yoghurt in the morning with some banana or berries to satiate me massively. Then lunch/dinner will be either chicken breast cooked in coconut oil or lean beef in tallow. I'm loving mixing bodybuilding tendencies with peaty principles.
 

Sam321

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Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
581
🤠
 

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Hans

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
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I'm finding FAGE 0% yoghurt in the morning with some banana or berries to satiate me massively. Then lunch/dinner will be either chicken breast cooked in coconut oil or lean beef in tallow. I'm loving mixing bodybuilding tendencies with peaty principles.
I wanted to do yogurt for my cut, but here they only have yogurt with nearly the same macros as milk, so what's the point haha.
 

jamies33

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Nov 14, 2017
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Good work! :) How much weight did you lose on that cut?
Im sorry Hans but the person you are quoting is not the person in the picture linked, that is a meme of a man named Bill Hicks purportedly related to Alex Jones (as in thought to be the same person, as a meme).
 

Sam321

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Messages
581
Im sorry Hans but the person you are quoting is not the person in the picture linked, that is a meme of a man named Bill Hicks purportedly related to Alex Jones (as in thought to be the same person, as a meme).
Yeah man. I'm just messing around.
 

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