ELI5: Stuck In Glycolysis

[thegiantess]

So, I have listened to a few of the Haidut (that's one smart cookie!) and Danny Roddy podcasts.. and despite having a background in science I have to listen to them over and over for them to actually stick to my brain. This could be because I have 3 month old twins that suck all the life right out of my head, but that's another story.. So, someone please explain to me what it means to be "stuck in glycolysis" as Haidut repeatedly says. If glycolysis is good, preferable over lipolysis, why is it bad to be so called "stuck," in it? And how does one avoid getting stuck. Thanks in advance!

 

[kiran]

Explain it to me like I'm a 5 year old

Glycolysis(similar to fermentation, ends up with lactic acid) is partway through the complete sugar metabolism. It's inefficient and is usually caused by some sort of stress. The stress varies with the person, and may be estrogen or some other hormonal issue. Ideally you would want to continue with the Krebs(citric acid) cycle, to end up with CO2 and water, rather than lactate. Basically stuck in glycolysis means that the krebs cycle in not functioning properly.

 

[Amazoniac]

Explain it to me like I'm a 5 year old

When you're under prolongued stress, in various forms like running short of pboysterone, you won't have enough oxygen to go further in the cellular respiration chain, you're stuck with fermentation and with just enough energy to survive, not thrive. Lipolysis is the break down of lipids, a process that will occur - not exclusively but - under starvation, and with enough oxygen it can enter the mitochondria and yield the same amount of energy as with glucose. Being trapped in glycolisis is not having enough oxygen, and the process happens outside of the mitochondria yielding much less energy..

 

[Kessry]

Interesting, how would one feel (in terms of mood/energy/common symptoms) while in a state of glycolysis vs. lipolysis?

Is there a measurable way to determine which state your body is preferring?

 

[jb116]

kessry, it isn't a glycolysis vs lipolysis kind of thing. They actually work in tandem. In lipolysis it is primarily the stress hormones that constantly break down the lipids so that they are free in the blood stream. That leads to an interruption of krebs when it is constant and more importantly when they are pufa leading to a glycolytic state i.e. increased lactic acid.

 

[Amazoniac]

But it's a mistake to associate lipolysis only with stress. It happens all the time as gastrointestinal, vascular and intracellular lipolysis (which is what we usually associate with).
On a side note, fortunately I'm stuck in pboylysis, a state that rainbows show up everywhere and all you hear is a delicate choir of angels..

 

[jb116]

post 109990 But it's a mistake to associate lipolysis only with stress. It happens all the time as gastrointestinal, vascular and intracellular lipolysis (which is what we usually associate with).
On a side note, fortunately I'm stuck in pboylysis, a state that rainbows show up everywhere and all you hear is a delicate choir of angels..

To be accurate, I didn't say "only in stress" but that stress hormones break the lipids down. Exception is testosterone but for the most part, well you get it...

 

[thegiantess]

Very helpful! Thank you. I guess the answer then is to be high carb/low fat.

 

[Giraffe]

Source: Human Physiology: The Mechanisms of Body Functions (Eric P. Widmaier, Hershel Raff, Kevin T. Strang)


Glycolysis is a pathway that partially catabolizes carbohydrates, primary glucose. Under aerobic conditions pyruvate enters the Krebs cycle. Under anaerobic conditions pyruvate is converted to lactate. Most cells can not produce enough ATP by glycolysis alone to meet their energy requirements.

Krebs cycle (aka citric cycle) is the second of the three pathways involved in fuel catabolism and ATP production. It utilizes molecular fragments formed during carbohydrate, protein, and fat breakdown, and it produces carbon dioxide, hydrogen atoms (half of which are bound to coenzymes), and small amounts of ATP. The Krebs cycle can only operate under aerobic conditions. Although the Krebs cycle only produces one molecule of ATP, it is important because the products are used in the next pathway, oxidative phosphorylation, to form large amounts of ATP.

Oxidative phosphorylation provides the third, and quantitatively most important, mechanism by which energy derived from fuel molecules can be transferred to ATP.

Fats and glucose compete with each other for oxidation through the Randle cycle. If there is enough fat in the blood to displace glucose, the cells will be burning fat and thus maintain a stress metabolism.

post 102374 This study shows that high fat diet inhibits oxidative phosphorylation, so glucose seems to be a better fuel source as Peat has said many times.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15983191

 

[Amazoniac]

post 116876 Source: Human Physiology: The Mechanisms of Body Functions (Eric P. Widmaier, Hershel Raff, Kevin T. Strang)



Glycolysis is a pathway that partially catabolizes carbohydrates, primary glucose. Under aerobic conditions pyruvate enters the Krebs cycle. Under anaerobic conditions pyruvate is converted to lactate. Most cells can not produce enough ATP by glycolysis alone to meet their energy requirements.

Krebs cycle (aka citric cycle) is the second of the three pathways involved in fuel catabolism and ATP production. It utilizes molecular fragments formed during carbohydrate, protein, and fat breakdown, and it produces carbon dioxide, hydrogen atoms (half of which are bound to coenzymes), and small amounts of ATP. The Krebs cycle can only operate under aerobic conditions. Although the Krebs cycle only produces one molecule of ATP, it is important because the products are used in the next pathway, oxidative phosphorylation, to form large amounts of ATP.

Oxidative phosphorylation provides the third, and quantitatively most important, mechanism by which energy derived from fuel molecules can be transferred to ATP.

Fats and glucose compete with each other for oxidation through the Randle cycle. If there is enough fat in the blood to displace glucose, the cells will be burning fat and thus maintain a stress metabolism.

post 102374 This study shows that high fat diet inhibits oxidative phosphorylation, so glucose seems to be a better fuel source as Peat has said many times.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15983191

Thanks for sharing, Giraffe.
Can you explain why you are inferring that using fat as fuel is inherently stressful? No sarcasm, I just don't understand because you can use fats as fuel for oxidation inside the mitochondria and you'll only be stuck in pboylysis, I mean, glycolysis if you don't have enough oxygen, right?

 

[Amazoniac]

And for the Op, I don't know which episode you listened to but in one of them he discussed glycolysis a bit more, not just briefly mentioned as in others..

 

[thegiantess]

And for the Op, I don't know which episode you listened to but in one of them he discussed glycolysis a bit more, not just briefly mentioned as in others..

Hey there, I think I've listened to all of them, but I have 5 month old twins, which means I have to listen to anything that requires thinking about 10 times before it registers. Babies suck the brainpower right out of the skull I'm sure I'll listen to most of them again, so perhaps I'll come across it. In the meantime, giraffe's post is very helpful!

 

[EndAllDisease]

In the Danny Roddy podcast on Digestion (at 23 minutes) Haidut mentions the three types of metabolism - Glycolysis, Krebs, and Oxidative Phosphorylation.

How do we know this is how metabolism actually works?
Is this written in textbooks? or is it strictly an alternative idea?

 

[Blossom]

You should be able to find a good overview of this in any physiology or biology text book. It's not an alternative idea. Some of the things we do to optimize the process would be considered 'alternative' but the actual processes themselves are considered established science.

 

[Giraffe]

Hi FlatEarth, I moved your post as there was an exisiting thread (and I recall that you have asked that question before).

Is this written in textbooks? or is it strictly an alternative idea?

It is textbook. The picture in my post above is taken from a textbook. Also see:

Glycolysis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Citric acid cycle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Oxidative phosphorylation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[EndAllDisease]

Hi FlatEarth, I moved your post as there was an exisiting thread (and I recall that you have asked that question before).

Thanks Giraffe!!

Excellent thread I have taken notes on all the things I found useful in this thread, which is actually all from you, and printed the sheet for myself to study. Now I have a source, and the data that comes from it, a picture, and a study that shows why glucose is better than fat which is critical and will help me show people why sugar is a better fuel.

Question!
If mainstream "psy-ence" has gotten the cell structure wrong, aka the lipid layer and membrane pump theory, what makes us think that the way energy is produced is true?

 

[Giraffe]

Peat's anwer to above question: My Question To Ray About Metabolism | Ray Peat Forum

 

[TreasureVibe]

Of these amino acids, aspartate and glutamine are used, together with carbon and nitrogen atoms from other sources, to form the purines that are used as the bases in DNA and RNA, as well as in ATP, AMP, GTP, NAD, FAD and CoA.[35]
Citric acid cycle - Wikipedia

CO2 and N2 as cancer preventatives and reversal agents?