Electrical Fields, Not Dna, May Shape The Look Of An Organism

haidut

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Yet another confirmation of Peat's ideas and a revival of the studies in morphogenetic fields that were all the rage back in the 1920s. It remains to be seen if this will get enough traction to attract funding, but I think it is very promising and very encouraging to see NIH expressing interest in funding work like that with a focus on cancer treatments.

http://www.nature.com/news/bioelectric- ... .17087#/b1

"...Over the years, Michael Levin’s lab at Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts, has created a carnival’s worth of zoological oddities: a flatworm with four heads, a frog with six legs, a tadpole with a functioning third eye on its tail. But what is perhaps most striking about his curious menagerie is that the biologist has engineered many of these animals not by mutating their genomes but by altering the electrical gradients that cells use to communicate with one another.
For its latest show, the lab has cast its spotlight on the most complex and electrically active organ in the body: the brain. In work published in the 11 March issue of the Journal of Neuroscience1, Levin and his colleagues show that brain development in frog embryos is shaped by changes in the voltage gradients across cell membranes. These bioelectrical signals create a means of communication that allows the cells to coordinate their efforts with their neighbours. By modulating those voltage gradients, the researchers were able to stimulate the growth of extra brain tissue, even compensating for brain defects caused by a genetic mutation.
Results in frog embryos are a long way from the clinic, but the findings suggest that, in the long term, modulating the brain’s bioelectricity could be a way to address injuries or birth defects that reduce the amount of functional brain tissue. “Basically any time you need more brain tissue, this could be useful,” says Levin.
Until then, Levin is excited by the concept that bioelectricity provides a way for cells to communicate over relatively long distances. His team modulates voltage gradients in cells by either adding or blocking channels in cell membranes that pump ions in and out. Changing the gradient in cells outside the brain resulted in neural cell proliferation in the embryo’s neural tube, a structure that gives rise to the brain and spinal cord. That kind of long-distance communication is critical for designing a proportioned body plan, he says. “It’s not good to have a big, giant brain if other organs aren’t keeping up.”
Min Zhao, who studies how cells use bioelectricity during wound healing at the University of California in Davis, calls the work “beautiful.” The study of bioelectricity and its influence on organ development was popular in the early twentieth century, he notes, but then lost favour when scientists realized that DNA is heritable and flocked to study genetics. “Now bioelectricity seems to be making a comeback,” says Zhao, pointing to investments by the US National Institutes of Health to study the biophysical factors that guide cell behaviour, particularly in cancer."
 
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jaa

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Oh wow that's cool. Like magic. The potential seems unlimited.
 

jaa

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My mind was racing to futuristic thoughts of the potential if this tech pans out. Rapidly growing tissues and organs in labs, increasing brain size, regenerating limbs, and a bunch of stuff I'm not imaginative enough to think of that if I saw today I would think was magic (obviously I would realize it was based on physical laws but you get the point).
 

Suikerbuik

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Just wonder what Ray thinks about those 'ion pumping channels'.. It is interesting for sure!
 
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haidut

haidut

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Suikerbuik said:
Just wonder what Ray thinks about those 'ion pumping channels'.. It is interesting for sure!

I thought Ray said there is no such thing. The entire cell is accessible (no channels) and what it lets in and what it keeps out depends on its energetic status. For instance, a fatigues cell swells with water and becomes permeable to virtually anything, which sometimes ends in cellular death.
 

Suikerbuik

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Yes he said that. So I'd like to know what substances they used to alter 'these pumps' and how this theory still holds. In Ling's book is something written about ouabain and EWCs and EDCs. This hypothesis about the cell makes more sound to me, but is an hypothesis still.
 
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There is nothing different in what they are seeing and describing, it is simply a matter of a limitative interpretation which will make things go awry in the long run. But the hyperpolarization is what's important here, and it is definitely achieved by messing with calcium among other things.
 

Suikerbuik

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There is nothing different in what they are seeing and describing
If there isn't a difference in what they see and describe, than this means pumps and channels exist. The points of different interpretation and importance of hyperpolarization are understood.

Also notice that the author has some other really interesting articles about cancer and membrane potential, some (actually all are worth a glimpse at least) I cannot resist referring to despite not having read completely yet. :)
http://ase.tufts.edu/biology/labs/levin/publications/cancer.htm
 
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Holy ****! Those look like some dangerous things to call your papers if you want to hold a salary nowadays... Maybe that isn't loving your own job but it surely is loving your work.

If there isn't a difference in what they see and describe, than this means pumps and channels exist.

No, I think it means the flux of ions exists, or rather the gradient (because the separation is not achieved with struggle, it is born into). Just because they choose to see things through the shadows that they cast doesn't mean they cannot learn things.
 

Parsifal

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@haidut, I don't know if you've heard about Wave Genetics and Peter Gariaev, there is a high probability that the guy is a quack but it's quite interesting:
 
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haidut

haidut

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@haidut, I don't know if you've heard about Wave Genetics and Peter Gariaev, there is a high probability that the guy is a quack but it's quite interesting:


That's pretty cool, thanks! I will watch it tonight.
 

Parsifal

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That's pretty cool, thanks! I will watch it tonight.

I also advise you to look at this video, the guy is french, he wrote a great book (just in french I believe) and went to interview a lot of Russian scientists that work with electromagnetic energy to heal people: you can put the subtitles in english in the options but I can also translate some specific parts for you if you want.
 

dand

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Excellent! Does anyone have any specific references to the investments made by NIH? I will keep looking :). This is quite encouraging.
 

nikolabeacon

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I do not want to offend anyone....but real future of medicine and healing is electricity and with similar approach as Gerard-Graham-Ling microelectrode.......not iin various pills and synthetic substances....Electrophysiology - Wikipedia


This is really true and more holistic approach to healing of the cells and organism.

CO2 and Light treatments and techniques fall in the same category because both act holistically on every cell :compared to isolated substances .
 

Parsifal

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I do not want to offend anyone....but real future of medicine and healing is electricity and with similar approach as Gerard-Graham-Ling microelectrode.......not iin various pills and synthetic substances....Electrophysiology - Wikipedia


This is really true and more holistic approach to healing of the cells and organism.

CO2 and Light treatments and techniques fall in the same category because both act holistically on every cell :compared to isolated substances .
I think that molecules could have electromagnetic effects in the cells. After all every molecule has electrons in them right? If I remember well Peat talked about Luca Turin which proved that a compound with different molecular structure would have the same smell if they had the same "vibration" (don't really remember how he measures this). I think Mae Wan Ho talked about this topic a bit in her book as well. Biophysics, Bioenergetic and Electrophysiology are deeply interesting topics.
 
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I think that molecules could have electromagnetic effects in the cells. After all every molecule has electrons in them right? If I remember well Peat talked about Luca Turin which proved that a compound with different molecular structure would have the same smell if they had the same "vibration" (don't really remember how he measures this). I think Mae Wan Ho talked about this topic a bit in her book as well. Biophysics, Bioenergetic and Electrophysiology are deeply interesting topics.

I agree.

I think the reason estrogen is so bad is because it affects the amount of water in the cell, which messes with the electrical balance.

These effects are parallel to Selye's observation that estrogen imitates the shock reaction. Estrogen, by creating an oxygen deficiency, stimulates first swelling[with water], and then collagen synthesis....In shock, the blood pressure decreases, mainly because the blood volume decreases. Water is taken up by the tissues, out of the blood....When tissue is poorly oxygenated (or is exposed to estrogen) it takes up water, swelling and becoming more rigid, turgid. (It also takes up calcium, especially under the influence of estrogen, causing muscles to contract.) This swelling effect will be much more noticeable in small arteries than in major arteries with very large channels, but when the effect is prolonged, it will affect even the heart, causing it to “stiffen,” weakening its ability to pump. There is some evidence that estrogen can make large arteries stiffen, over a span of a few months. (Giltay, et al., 1999)...Temperature falls during sleep. Recent experiments show that hypothermia during surgery exacerbates the edema produced by stress, and that hypertonic (hyperosmotic or hyperoncotic) solutions alleviate the swelling. It is possible that light's action directly on the cells helps them to prevent swelling, and that the body's infrared emissions have a similar function.

Interesting

Whatever the mechanism is, adequate temperature improves sleep, and an excessive nocturnal temperature drop probably increases edema, with all of its harmful consequences.

Light has an effect on edema and swelling because they are the result of water uptake and water is a dipolar electric condutor that is sensitive to magnetic fields.

Magnetic and electric effects on water

The mechanism is electrical.
 

nikolabeacon

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I think that molecules could have electromagnetic effects in the cells. After all every molecule has electrons in them right? If I remember well Peat talked about Luca Turin which proved that a compound with different molecular structure would have the same smell if they had the same "vibration" (don't really remember how he measures this). I think Mae Wan Ho talked about this topic a bit in her book as well. Biophysics, Bioenergetic and Electrophysiology are deeply interesting topics.
Yeah molecules affect those fields.....but you need complex action of moldvules as in food and activity and full interaction with surrounding environmental dtimulis( light, heat( electric fields),Co2)...in order to make bionergetic circuit.....But isolated synthetic molecules extracted from food are nonsense for the organism....it never act holisticaly...and it usually make a chain reaction that causes many other holes that need to be filled or balanced with other molecules...it is not in coherencd with surrounding which havd holistic action.....and it is a way to supress signs from the body which are result of the holistic action of surrounding( light, Co2 ) and activities on the whole organism and every cell.....
 
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Yeah molecules affect those fields.....but you need complex action of moldvules as in food and activity and full interaction with surrounding environmental dtimulis( light, heat( electric fields),Co2)...in order to make bionergetic circuit.....But isolated synthetic molecules extracted from food are nonsense for the organism....it never act holisticaly...and it usually make a chain reaction that causes many other holes that need to be filled or balanced with other molecules...it is not in coherencd with surrounding which havd holistic action.....and it is a way to supress signs from the body which are result of the holistic action of surrounding( light, Co2 ) and activities on the whole organism and every cell.....

What would you suggest then? Whole food?
 

Drareg

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Yet another confirmation of Peat's ideas and a revival of the studies in morphogenetic fields that were all the rage back in the 1920s. It remains to be seen if this will get enough traction to attract funding, but I think it is very promising and very encouraging to see NIH expressing interest in funding work like that with a focus on cancer treatments.

http://www.nature.com/news/bioelectric- ... .17087#/b1

"...Over the years, Michael Levin’s lab at Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts, has created a carnival’s worth of zoological oddities: a flatworm with four heads, a frog with six legs, a tadpole with a functioning third eye on its tail. But what is perhaps most striking about his curious menagerie is that the biologist has engineered many of these animals not by mutating their genomes but by altering the electrical gradients that cells use to communicate with one another.
For its latest show, the lab has cast its spotlight on the most complex and electrically active organ in the body: the brain. In work published in the 11 March issue of the Journal of Neuroscience1, Levin and his colleagues show that brain development in frog embryos is shaped by changes in the voltage gradients across cell membranes. These bioelectrical signals create a means of communication that allows the cells to coordinate their efforts with their neighbours. By modulating those voltage gradients, the researchers were able to stimulate the growth of extra brain tissue, even compensating for brain defects caused by a genetic mutation.
Results in frog embryos are a long way from the clinic, but the findings suggest that, in the long term, modulating the brain’s bioelectricity could be a way to address injuries or birth defects that reduce the amount of functional brain tissue. “Basically any time you need more brain tissue, this could be useful,” says Levin.
Until then, Levin is excited by the concept that bioelectricity provides a way for cells to communicate over relatively long distances. His team modulates voltage gradients in cells by either adding or blocking channels in cell membranes that pump ions in and out. Changing the gradient in cells outside the brain resulted in neural cell proliferation in the embryo’s neural tube, a structure that gives rise to the brain and spinal cord. That kind of long-distance communication is critical for designing a proportioned body plan, he says. “It’s not good to have a big, giant brain if other organs aren’t keeping up.”
Min Zhao, who studies how cells use bioelectricity during wound healing at the University of California in Davis, calls the work “beautiful.” The study of bioelectricity and its influence on organ development was popular in the early twentieth century, he notes, but then lost favour when scientists realized that DNA is heritable and flocked to study genetics. “Now bioelectricity seems to be making a comeback,” says Zhao, pointing to investments by the US National Institutes of Health to study the biophysical factors that guide cell behaviour, particularly in cancer."

I wondered a while back why gerry coyne of why evolution is true(a religion) tried to dismiss Mae Wan Ho as a quack ,he wrote an article on his site( an online church),he cherry picked one of course to suit his framing.
What facinated me is why a guy in academia who knows all the politics of this type of research and the general culture of academia pens an article about a "far fringed theory "from Wan Ho,I suspected he was dropping the ball and reacting emotionally ,his blog is essentially a church for neodarwinists who carry an air of hubris of never decending to such spurious theories of Wan Ho and the research she cites.

Her name will always come up in circles of thinking around the research you posted,he is reacting I believe to the the article you linked making it into nature,the dates are spot on,he regularly tries to stifle this kind of information. His precious HOX genes are now being exposed as interlinked in a more complex and airy fairy way than they would like to "preach" (I know the article you link here doesn't mention her)
Mae-Wan Ho and Suzan Mazur: the blind leading the blind about evolution
My speculation of course.
 

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