Ejaculatory Exhaustion

Satellite

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I'm a licensed clinical herbalist so I know a lot about the herbs you describe. There may be something to what you're saying because up until recently I was taking DHEA and pregnenolone, and I found that I did not really have POIS symptoms as much. I would be groggy the next day but within a few hours I'd be fine. Because they were causing male pattern baldness, I had to stop taking them. Now it seems like the POIS is back full on.

I found a POIS forum online and some people seem to think it's a vagus nerve disorder, brought on by inflammation. I don't know what to think yet, my research is just beginning. I have been able to ignore this POIS-like problem for a long time but now it's at the point where it's really ruining my life.

If supplementing androgens or B5 (the post above) works, then it suggests that I am merely antagonizing prolactin, and prolactin is the actual problem. If that's true, then why does my blood work not show high prolactin? If it's a prolactin issue, then something like cabergoline should work. But I'm wary of the long-term effects of taking a dopamine agonist.

My thyroid and AM cortisol are normal, btw... had the full panel done a month ago.


I hear you.
DHEA/pregnenolone do get my balls producing, but they do not actually increase my libido.
I have noticed that increasing dopamine is a strong counter to prolactin.
However, a dopamine agonist may not be necessary, because androgens also increase dopamine.

The two stacks I have mentioned are the only things that hit all 3 prongs, while also improving the endocrine system.
And the improved blood flow allows concrete boners for days.

What I am saying is that you must be soo horny and producing soo much, that ejaculating is like releasing 10% of your stores. In other words, even if you ejaculate you will still be crazy horny. You may need 30-60 minutes for the body to recoup a bit, but not shut down for days. That is a sign of being sluggish.

This is my main point, the endocrine system MUST be strong and in full force.
You MUST have sufficient androgens, but simply have a ton floating around the blood isn't enough.
You MUST maximize them by improving the body's sensitivity to them, so they get used properly.

When you do this while having solid blood flow to move these things around and a strong endocrine system at full force, you will have so much semen that you will never get tired.

IMHO getting tired is a sign that you used all of your reserves and need to shut down while producing more.
The exhaustion is a protection mechanism to decrease the stress.

Also, how about boosting hcg to increase sperm production?
I tend to think if it was just vit B and prolactin, then anybody taking multi vitamins would be ok.
 
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Diokine

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This is not that uncommon. Orgasmolepsy is one term used to describe what you'e experiencing, and its presentations are extremely varied and generally described as a subset of narcolepsy.

Look into research on the connection between the hypocretin/orexin system and endocannabinoids. These are very important for maintaining very diverse and subtle timing structures within the nervous system. These timing structures are largely responsible for maintenance of the immune system. Patterns in this system outside of the range of adaptation could present as Crohn's, UC, sleep disorders, MS, glycemic control problems, fatigue, etc.

Low dose naltrexone is one treatment modality that may be effective. From a purely speculative vantage, the following treatments may improve feedback sensitivity or may be effective at bringing systems back into range. They may also make symptoms worse.
- CBD oil may augment cannabinoid response and increase feedback.
- Sauna therapy can increase TRPV activity, may increase feedback.
- Capsaicin will also increase TRPV activity.
- Nicotine will increase hypocretin/orexin activity. Overdose may cause extreme nausea.

There is also a significant connection between brain histamine and these systems, tending towards lower histamine in critical brain areas. Histamine is processed via a metyhltransferase (HNMT) and excessive methylation can contribute. In this case, folate, choline, and niacinamide may be effective.
 

Alpha

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Then why recommend Cyproheptadine, which is an antihistamine?

I understand the Wellbutrin idea, since it's a dopamine reuptake inhibitor.
Cyproheptadine is a strong PRL inhibitor.
 

MrBenjamin

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Oct 2, 2018
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My prolactin levels are normal, although they spike after ejaculation like anybody's does. I did happen to get prolactin blood work done once a night after having sex, and it was out of normal range. I go to the gym 3 times a week and am on the muscular side. My diet is pretty solid. I'm not a body builder but my weight is very normal.

How long after was your test?

My understanding is that a prolactin spike is what causes the refractory period.
From what I've understood, men with no refractory period don't get those prolactin spikes. So it may be that some men have the opposite, where they get a very large increase in prolactin and have a very long refractory period. Unfortunately most of the research implies that everyone will respond the same way to the same behavior, and I don't think that's the case at all.
Dopamine almost certainly plays a significant role in all of these issues.
 
OP
O

Orius

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Thanks everyone... I will reply in more detail later.

Upon further thought, I think this is a prolactin issue. The reason is that non-ejaculatory sexual stimulation does not cause any symptoms, only ejaculation does. The difference is prolactin. Maybe my body dumps too much prolactin after an orgasm, or maybe I am hypersensitive to my own prolactin. Or maybe my liver doesn't process hormones well. I know that my refractory period is about 60-120 minutes (i.e. if I wanted to have sex a second time), and the second round will see a less firm erection. But if I go a second round, then the next day I will basically be disabled and non-functional from brain fog.

In which case my research should look at how to reduce prolactin: calcium, B5, L-tyrosine (to support dopamine)... what else?

My semen is not watery. I mean, it depends on my hydration status, but in general it's not. The consistency seems fairly normal.

I don't seem to suffer from a semen or sperm production issue. It's more related to the refractory period somehow. My blood prolactin is in the middle range of normal. The one time I had my blood tested 8 hours after having sex, it was out of normal range on the high end. Normal range ended at 28, and mine was 36. This was 8 hours after sex.

So my questions are:
- how do you minimize the amount of prolactin released?
- how do you speed up the breakdown of prolactin already in circulation? (reduce the half-life)
- what health problems or nutrient deficiencies are related to too much prolactin? (ignoring a prolactimona, which is a pituitary tumor)
 

baccheion

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Thanks everyone... I will reply in more detail later.

Upon further thought, I think this is a prolactin issue. The reason is that non-ejaculatory sexual stimulation does not cause any symptoms, only ejaculation does. The difference is prolactin. Maybe my body dumps too much prolactin after an orgasm, or maybe I am hypersensitive to my own prolactin. Or maybe my liver doesn't process hormones well. I know that my refractory period is about 60-120 minutes (i.e. if I wanted to have sex a second time), and the second round will see a less firm erection. But if I go a second round, then the next day I will basically be disabled and non-functional from brain fog.

In which case my research should look at how to reduce prolactin: calcium, B5, L-tyrosine (to support dopamine)... what else?

My semen is not watery. I mean, it depends on my hydration status, but in general it's not. The consistency seems fairly normal.

I don't seem to suffer from a semen or sperm production issue. It's more related to the refractory period somehow. My blood prolactin is in the middle range of normal. The one time I had my blood tested 8 hours after having sex, it was out of normal range on the high end. Normal range ended at 28, and mine was 36. This was 8 hours after sex.

So my questions are:
- how do you minimize the amount of prolactin released?
- how do you speed up the breakdown of prolactin already in circulation? (reduce the half-life)
- what health problems or nutrient deficiencies are related to too much prolactin? (ignoring a prolactimona, which is a pituitary tumor)
Zinc and vitamin B6 P-5'-P are associated with lower prolactin. I wrote B5 in my previous post, but it's B6.

Inflammation, estrogen, and TRH are a few things that increase prolactin.
 

ubiety

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Your symptoms seem extreme, but the brain fog and unwell feeling - could it be low blood sugar that is exacerbated by ejaculating ? How's your energy level during the day? Are you getting enough carbs? I get brain fog and total exhaustion after ejaculating if I don't eat enough carbs and my blood sugar is low.
 

lampofred

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I don't want to be a downer, but I don't know if you'll find a fast solution to this problem unless you start eating PUFA (such as fish oil), raise estrogen, or completely take out all dairy products from your diet, all of which will lead to degenerative changes in the long-run, even though doing these three things might stimulate you enough (via excitotoxic energy) in the short-run to handle having more orgasms without feeling fatigue.

I think fatigue of the kind of you're mentioning is simply a sign that your body is depleted, and it will just take time to replenish your stores.

But one thing that might help is eating more liver because it is so all-around nutritious and replenishing. High dose aspirin (and maybe niacinamide) should also help accelerate the regenerative process.
 

Satellite

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Zinc and vitamin B6 P-5'-P are associated with lower prolactin. I wrote B5 in my previous post, but it's B6.

Inflammation, estrogen, and TRH are a few things that increase prolactin.

@Orius

This ^

Do you have "something" discharging from your nipples?
It is not a prolactin issue, the prolactin merely gives a glimpse into what is occuring, it is just a symptom, not the root cause.

In short, your body is estrogen dominant.
You can have sufficient androgens, libido, etc. and still be estrogen dominant.

You need to shift the way your body works towards androgen dominance.
That requires the 3 pronged approach I mentioned which upregulates androgen sensitivity, dopamine sensitivity, and thyroid function while downregulating conversion to estrogen.

Hypothryoidism and estrogen dominance cause prolactin abnormalties, which in turn causes other problems such as adrenal fatigue.
Blocking Tissue Destruction
 

Entropy

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In my experience, It's best to avoid ejaculation unless you want to reproduce.

At some point you're going to feel sick and tired of feeling sick and tired.

I'll feel the same ways after ejaculation and even after sex without ejaculation if it's done improperly.

Observations, witnessing, and self experimenting has connected me towards meditation energetic cultivation practices, which when experienced and integrated beyond the healthy stages of skepticism becomes just a practical way of navigating your energy in your body and life.

This is also changed the way I'll have sex and deeply my perspectives, or how we've been conditioned to see it.

In Taoism, dealing with internal energy work or Qigong (energy work), masters and teachers will say to ejaculate less frequently as you age.

In Traditional orthodox approaches, it's not ideal to ejaculate at all and to basically practice encratism, celibacy.

This is because you are using vitality (jing) stores every time your body engages in sexual acts or even the mind just being aroused via stimuli.

It's not as the semen in it's self contains the Jing, but think of it has a generative force which is your sexual energy used to engage with the world.

We are also taxing are nervous system, minerals, bodies protein, and concentration of blood flow.

Ejaculation keeps the men at a low-level of consciousness, or stage where further refinement or transformations of energy are stuck at the base level.

There is no going around this, there is a reason Sigmund Freud at age 40 refrained from sexual activity with his Wife because it provided him with mental, energetic and creative benefits.

Jing stores can be replenished through food, cultivation through meditation and physical exercise, the combination is Qigong.

Sex, arousal, and ejaculation work on kidneys, naturally dealing with body fluids, so nourishing with jing foods (usually dark) and herbs that build essence and support kidneys will help.

In other words,

Herbs and foods that contain zinc, copper, and other minerals. So shellfish and seafood will help and herbs such as Rehmannia. Maybe try some adaptogenic herbs, Reg Ginseng, Ashwagandha etc

You'll have to eat more, if you're going to have sex more, and also need more rest.

You can also try taking B6 after an ejaculation, and theanine to reduce the prolactin spikes..

Anyways that's what I do if I have a slip, in combination of having to rebuild with Qigong.
 

Richiebogie

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up until recently I was taking DHEA and pregnenolone, and I found that I did not really have POIS symptoms as much. I would be groggy the next day but within a few hours I'd be fine. Because they were causing male pattern baldness, I had to stop taking them. Now it seems like the POIS is back full on.

It sounds like you may have a quick and dirty solution to fall back on if all else fails. Not ideal though!

Do you eat lamb, beef, fish, chicken or are you a vegan?

These are good sources of zinc and selenium.

I also eat fruit, fruit juice and dark chocolate.

I lost my hair in my early 20's so I am interested in trying to resurrect follicles!

Perhaps we are trying to solve the same problem from opposite directions!
 
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I've been dealing with this for about 4-5 years now, with gradual onset. If I ejaculate at all, whether it's once every two weeks, or once a day for 3 days, I am totally brain dead and exhausted. I can't think, can barely wake up in the morning, my cognitive function gets very low, all I want to do is sleep, my body is sore, and I just generally feel unwell.

After years of dealing with this, it's really bad now. A couple of days ago I had a nocturnal emission while I was asleep, and then I couldn't get up for work in the morning. I had to call in sick. I'm only in my early 30's so this can't be normal.

My prolactin levels are normal, although they spike after ejaculation like anybody's does. I did happen to get prolactin blood work done once a night after having sex, and it was out of normal range. I go to the gym 3 times a week and am on the muscular side. My diet is pretty solid. I'm not a body builder but my weight is very normal.

I've started dating someone now and our sex life is starting up, but I don't know how I'm going to be able to keep up with this person. It's not like I'm a sex addict... but it seems like even ejaculating once every couple of weeks totally ruins me. My sex drive is 100% in tact, so this has been torture. Yesterday evening we had sex and this morning at work I can barely keep my eyes open. That was about 18 hours ago now.

I've tried nofap but it doesn't work. The longest I went was 60 days without ejaculating, and even at that point when I finally did, it debilitated me. Please don't tell me to just avoid ejaculating forever, that's not the solution. It's normal for someone my age to be doing it, at least sometimes.

I don't understand WTF is going on or what to do. I saw an endocrinologist but she seemed fairly sexist and didn't take my problem very seriously. She kind of just shrugged it off and said, "Well, it's normal for men to feel tired after ejaculation. That's why a lot of men do it at night time, to help them with sleep." She was kind of a moron, to be honest. If I ejaculate at bed time, my alarm clock may not wake me up!

What it almost feels like is that I need a stimulant, but I don't want to take one. The brain fog is very intense. I don't know if this gives another clue, but usually I am initially OK after ejaculation. It's when I go to sleep and then wake up that I'm wrecked. I could ejaculate at 3 in the afternoon and not feel wrecked until waking up the next morning.

So yeah... I don't get it, or what to do about it, but this is really taxing on my life. Sometimes it's so frustrating that I just want to get castrated. (I don't really mean that, but that's how bad it's gotten.) I've read online that some people take cabergoline, but that's specifically for prolactin excess, and I'm not sure if that's my problem.

Any other ideas on how to overcome this? I know it's normal for men to be less virile as they age but this is getting ridiculous.

Copper and Zinc
 

Infarouge

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I would get testosterone tested. DHEA, horny goat weed and zinc can improve things but testosterone is king. Also try to get some sunlight on your testicles., it works better then red light.
 
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Orius

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I would get testosterone tested. DHEA, horny goat weed and zinc can improve things but testosterone is king. Also try to get some sunlight on your testicles., it works better then red light.

When I mess with DHEA and testosterone I start losing my hair
 

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