Either Adrenal Fatigue Or High Cortisol And Estrogen Dominance Question

fendertele

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Hey I'm showing signs of either a cortisol issue or estrogen dominance but having a hard time figuring out the right way to combat it, as someone else explained with my symptoms before on here that it sounds like my body is bonking... which makes sense but still clueless as to how to even it out.

I have 2 questions.

Firstly what's the difference between high cortisol and adrenal fatigue? I've read both can be caused by excercise and my first thought was adrenal fatigue was low cortisol.. but then had my doubts as how can excercise cause both high and low cortisol, so then thought it may be when cortisol gets so high for a long period the adrenals burn out or am I way off?.

Second and probably the most confusing part for me.

High cortisol/adrenal fatigue can lead to estrogen rising/dominance

Carbs can lower cortisol which will avoid estrogen rising... but

Carbs can also cause estrogen dominance, so to avoid this go low carb/keto... but

Low carb causes cortisol to rise and when it rises it raises estrogen…

So i'm trying to get my head round this vicious cycle or is my information way off ?

I know my cortisol/estrogen issue is caused by my weight training as it resolves when I stop however I enjoy it and even cutting back makes no difference, it must be a huge stressor full stop.. so i'm looking to aid the adrenals to lower the cortisol and keep the estro dominance at bay if possible.

thanks
 
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Luckytype

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Both of these can be signs of chronic stress, including underfeeding. E "dominance" usually takes more time to narrow down a cause and correct..as in weeks, months, a year.

Cortisol can be measured via salivary 4-sample tests and its action can be looked at by looking at your waking temp and comparing it to a measure taken about an hour after a balanced meal. Cortisol needs to be around to wake and alert you but past that your temps should continue to rise. If they fall after that first meal its you coming down from it.

Weight training is great but intense long term stuff in a body that is compromised can certain bring both perceptions of these issues.

In short, the body can deal with SHORT acute stressors but it has to truly believe that its not chronically stresses and "see" it before it begins corrective actions from its compensatory state
 
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fendertele

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No idea which one it all I know is I'm constantly hungry and unable to go on a cut.. always bloated and retaining water until I eat which eleviates it within 15 minutes but then slowly creeps back up again

I make almost steroid like gains.. but don't pile fat on despite eating close to 6k in calories daily to keep myself from feeling ill.

Puffy nipples.. sore tired eyes.. jittery.. constipated and erectile dysfunction and huge water retention.

All these things improve with mass gorge eating particularly chocolate.

And worsen when I don't give into my cravings or hunger pangs.

It frustrating cause I can't cut the hunger is crippling in that I feel ill sick flu ridden earaches, tender lymph nodes etc.. and I am eating like a horse and the body wants more and more.
 
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fendertele

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No haven't had any done recently but have had extremely high prolactin and insufficient adrenals in the past. Both were treated with meds.. cabergoline and hydrocortisone.

Was taken off the hydrocortisone once my adrenals kick started and continue with the caber to keep my prolactin low
 

Luckytype

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How do you sleep?

What are your temps when you wake and throughout the day?

I feel like a couple things may be going on.

Bear in mind, adding muscle is an adaptation to stress. Doesnt mean the stimulus is healthy per se
 
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fendertele

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Tend to wake every 3-4 hours on days where my body badly needs to catch-up may be able to get a solid 6

Usually keep wakening to urinate through the night...like all that retained water finally being allowed to leave.

No idea about my temps. Something worth looking into?

Someone once described what's going on to me as bonking....

I just get the feeling it's adrenal and or estrogen rising... But can't figure out if it's my adrenals not being able to cope with the stressor or my cortisol going high

Fatigue would be the most likely as I was once adrenal insufficient however most recent synthscen tests showed normal adrenal function and my symptoms in my mind point to high cortodol being the culprit

When I stop retaining my morning wood returrns...when it's bad they are non existent
 
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Cirion

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I know this isn't gonna be what you wanna hear and some may disagree with me. But I used to train hard core, power lifting style and really loved it also, but it completely trashed my health. I'm still dealing with the consequences several years later. I completely stopped weight training now, and I'm still recovering.

It's my opinion that being able to weight lift is a marker of good health but doesn't really cause good health. Not in my experience. If I even do a LIGHT weight lifting workout my temperatures the next day will be lower.

I'm not saying don't workout again ever. I AM saying you need to get pulses and temp on point again, and sleep perfect before even thinking about hitting the gym. I haven't yet, so I've been out of the gym until I do.
 

Luckytype

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Was it documented and proven with labs as adrenal insufficiency?

Asking because my metabolism crashed from training alongside neglect for years but i had nearly normal adrenal function. Adrenals are datn resilliant in most people
 
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fendertele

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Was it documented and proven with labs as adrenal insufficiency?

Asking because my metabolism crashed from training alongside neglect for years but i had nearly normal adrenal function. Adrenals are datn resilliant in most people


Yes but this was not weight training related this was when I was a teenager I was diagnosed with a prolactinoma and due to the prolactinoma tumor I was adrenal insufficient and a whole load of other things.

Since then all my levels have normalized I'm told and as long as I stay on the caber I will keep my prolactin low.

As for giving up lifting I know it's the culprit..however when I'm actually in the gym I have twice as much energy stamina as anyone else in there and leave feeling amazing it's inly an hour or so later that ***t hits the fan.

If I take a week or two off and gorge o .junk food.. my retention goes away I begin to feel normal..erections return etc . But after one session back it all disappears.

So frustrating as I would literally eat or do anything to be able to lift and then heal correctly
 

Luckytype

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So then without bloodwork its a bit of a guess.

Stamina doesnt matter, its adaptation to stress. Period.

Training increases all stress hormones, especially longer bouts, sometimes as @Cirion eluded to, training may need to be halted as you may actually be overreaching or overtrained as indicated by all youve shared. We are talking more than just a week or two off here. Im also still recovering from my own abuses.

Many signs and things youve talked about point to overreaching/overtraining/chronic stress. The fact you feel better when eating with no training and resting begins to confirm suspicions.

Take your waking temp(before moving from bed)
 
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fendertele

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Okay I'll buy a thermometer when I'm in town.

So I just take it the moment I wake before even leaving my bed?

As for the resting longer are we talking a month or maybe more?

Does the overtraining/cortisol lead to bigger gains as I have gotten pretty huge to the point people always ask if I'm taking any roids etc..

Can the issue be resolved without time off with supplementation and or diet.

Again I will do what needs to be done but just looking to stay in the gym if possible.
 
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fendertele

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I know this isn't gonna be what you wanna hear and some may disagree with me. But I used to train hard core, power lifting style and really loved it also, but it completely trashed my health. I'm still dealing with the consequences several years later. I completely stopped weight training now, and I'm still recovering.

It's my opinion that being able to weight lift is a marker of good health but doesn't really cause good health. Not in my experience. If I even do a LIGHT weight lifting workout my temperatures the next day will be lower.

I'm not saying don't workout again ever. I AM saying you need to get pulses and temp on point again, and sleep perfect before even thinking about hitting the gym. I haven't yet, so I've been out of the gym until I do.
So my temp is an indicator of something going off?

What about cold feet, I get really cold feet when I am on my cutting diet to the point 4 pairs of socks and they still remain cold... Again eating huge amounts of greasy food remedy this pretty quickly.
 
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fendertele

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Forgot to also mention I crave chocolate like it's crack lol

I mean the amount of chocolate I eat in a day would sicken most but it helps big time if i haven't had a toilet visit in a few days it seems to kick start my metabolism.. amongst sorting the other symptoms out
 

Cirion

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It sounds like you're in real bad shape, probably similar to where I was back then. You're addicted to the rush that lifting gives, trust me, I know 100% the feeling because I've been there.

I can't tell you how long it may take, but it may take a while. It could even take a year or more. If you're still young, you might be able to bounce back in a few months. Once you hit 30 though, you stop being able to bounce back quickly. I'm 31 almost 32 and have spent the last 2 years trying to recover and still haven't. Sometimes I even have doubts that I will recover, but I gotta keep the faith. AT least I've gotten my temps in the day to normal levels, but I myself still have bad waking temperatures most days, but even worse if I try to train.

There is a certain amount of training that people not taking steroids simply cannot handle. It is not necessary to train like you're on steroids when you're not, even once you do recover. You might just find your gains will be even better this way anyway.

Those in the fitness industry are quick to peddle the idea that your muscles recover in 48 hours so you can train 3x a week. Well, that's really not true. Well technically it may be. But damaged hormone levels take significantly longer than your muscles to recover. Lyle McDonald likes to claim they can recover in a week or two but that's not true either. In the extreme cases it can take years. I do think that if all parameters are optimized (Environment, Sleep, Food, etc) that you can probably recover even an extreme case in a few months, maybe. It's hard to optimize all parameters for the average joe though. I'd love to move to a beach and quit working but that's really not feasible for me, sadly.
 
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fendertele

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It sounds like you're in real bad shape, probably similar to where I was back then. You're addicted to the rush that lifting gives, trust me, I know 100% the feeling because I've been there.

I can't tell you how long it may take, but it may take a while. It could even take a year or more. If you're still young, you might be able to bounce back in a few months. Once you hit 30 though, you stop being able to bounce back quickly. I'm 31 almost 32 and have spent the last 2 years trying to recover and still haven't. Sometimes I even have doubts that I will recover, but I gotta keep the faith. AT least I've gotten my temps in the day to normal levels, but I myself still have bad waking temperatures most days, but even worse if I try to train.

There is a certain amount of training that people not taking steroids simply cannot handle. It is not necessary to train like you're on steroids when you're not, even once you do recover. You might just find your gains will be even better this way anyway.

Those in the fitness industry are quick to peddle the idea that your muscles recover in 48 hours so you can train 3x a week. Well, that's really not true. Well technically it may be. But damaged hormone levels take significantly longer than your muscles to recover. Lyle McDonald likes to claim they can recover in a week or two but that's not true either. In the extreme cases it can take years. I do think that if all parameters are optimized (Environment, Sleep, Food, etc) that you can probably recover even an extreme case in a few months, maybe. It's hard to optimize all parameters for the average joe though. I'd love to move to a beach and quit working but that's really not feasible for me, sadly.

It's funny you mentioned the recovery thing.. I've noticed that when I take a week or two off around the second week my muscles begin to hurt which is strange as they don't hurt while I'm still training.

It's like a delayed recovery that only comes into play when I stop tearing them down.

I will get the thermometer tomorrow. Is waking temp only important ones or would you like me to take any other ones?

Btw I'm 34 so recovery will be like yourself harder now.

Another thing I've noticed a year ago I was cutting on 3000 calories if I went above I gained weight... And I was training as hard then as I am today but

Today I seem to be able to eat and eat and not gain weight some days I'm consuming easily 6/7k calories. It's like my body is no longer working the same way it used too... I used to always worry I'd put fat in as I was always a endomorph but now I'm worrying I'm not eating enough.. as my hunger levels are through the roof despite doubling my calories..
 

Cirion

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Waking temperature isn't the only important one but its the most important one as its the single number that is the most telling. You should also be able to maintain 98.6F+ at all times during the day, and if its rarely hits 98.6F during the day, that's a problem as well. I suspect it isn't, given by what you are saying about cold feet and whatnot. Maybe also take it right after breakfast, after lunch, and like around dinner/bed time.

A lot of people here disagree with me but I personally think now that even waking temp should be 98.6. Most would say 97.8 would be fine, but I disagree because I never feel rested unless my temp is close to or at 98.6F at waking (I actually have achieved this a few times, but can't yet get it consistently).

I think avoiding PUFA's is hugely important. I have been lazy about this the past year which may be why my recovery has been so slow. Stick to fats low in PUFA's and eat a high carb heavy in fruits diet while getting wholesome proteins. PUFA's are directly antagonistic to thyroid function and should be avoided at all costs.

Temperature is important because its an indirect indicator of your glycogen stores. Feeling cold rather after an intense workout is not surprising, because you've just drained all your glucose. This is why a large carbohydrate feeding is mandatory after an intense workout to prevent this and you noticed this yourself.

If temperature drops significantly below 98.6 overnight it means you have poor glucose storage capability. Every time this happens it is a stressor to your body. The more you can maintain good blood sugar the quicker healing in the body will occur and if you're very strict about it, may be able to bring about a reduction of healing time from years to months possibly. This is why I'm trying so hard personally to improve my waking temps myself.

The general advice many people give is try to be <4G PUFA a day. The lower the better, and theoretically <1G PUFA a day would result in probably much faster recovery, but that's almost impossible to do except with a diet of skim milk and fruit. (Saturated fats are good though, with MUFA being neutral, not bad but not good in excess either. So basically a high SFA > PUFA ratio is great, but even with high SFA/PUFA ratio still want overall PUFA intake low.)

Forgot to also mention I crave chocolate like it's crack lol

I mean the amount of chocolate I eat in a day would sicken most but it helps big time if i haven't had a toilet visit in a few days it seems to kick start my metabolism.. amongst sorting the other symptoms out

It's worth noting that cocoa is high in saturated fats, which may be your body subtly hinting that it wants the SFA's to bring inflammation down.
 
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Luckytype

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This definitely sounds overworked.

Cold extremities are an adrenal thing, your body literally thinks it needs to be ready to go all the time(as in like running/lifting to save your life). The lifting is upregulating the things that grow you, again adaptation.

5-10 minutes under the armpit or 5minutes in mouth before turning it on.

Regarding 98.6 overnight, the body cools when it sleeps. Sometimes 97.5ish in compromised, much lowet if heavily compromised. When i started my recovery i was waking sometimes in the low 96s. Now im 97.2 with an alarm, full sleep closer to 97.8. I would imagine youre cold when waking, or hot, cooling off after meals(coming off "stress")

The hunger is poor glucose metabolism and thats why you wake. That took me about a year to remedy as well. But its actually more restful finally.

Temps you can do:
Waking
An hour after first meal(to see how it changes)
1 or 2 pm(which in theory should be about your peak for the day)

Do it for a few days to get a true idea. Im usually cooler coming off a weekend because i can eat more at work vs weekend where i sleep more than during the week and thus eat less
 
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fendertele

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Okay I'll definitely do my temp in the morning it should be better than if I took it yesterday as I've taken 2 days off work and gave been just eating and laying on the couch which is something I rarely do usually work 6 days a week.

I'll read up on pufas as well will get back to you both tomorrow with readings

Forgot to ask is timing vital? I work nights so tend to sleep from 5 am till 2/3 pm hit gym around 6 pm then go to work.

So my waking temp would be done around 2/3pm.. lunch around 6 pm.. dinner at 9pm etc

Cheers
 
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