EFA Deficiency Achievable In 2 Weeks On Fat Free Diet

[haidut]

Human studies on diet of 80% glucose and 20% protein.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC436563/

"...In Study I, eight men were given fat-free, eucaloric diets containing 80% of calories as glucose and 20% as amino acid hydrolysates by a constant drip over a 24-h period. The diets were fed in succession for periods of 2 wk each, either through a superior vena cava catheter or via a nasogastric tube. EFA deficiency was detected by decreases in linoleic acid and by the appearance of 5, 8, 11-eicosatrienoic acid in lipid fractions of plasma. Linoleic acid decreased significantly during 2 wk of the fat-free diet given intravenously from 48.8 to 9.8% (percent of total fatty acids) in cholesterol esters, from 21.2 to 3.2% in phospholipids, from 9.6 to 2.0% in free fatty acids, and from 14.1 to 2.6% in triglycerides. Eicosatrienoic acid, normally undetectable, appeared 0.6% in cholesterol esters, 2.5% in phospholipids, 0.2% in free fatty acids, and 2.3% in triglycerides."

 

[johns74]

In this experiment, linoleic acid was down to 9.8%.

Before William Brown started his diet, his linoleic acid was lower (5.7%). So I don't know that what this study achieved can be called 'depletion', at least in the sense people use here. The reduction resulted in a HIGHER level than the one of another person who hasn't even dieted.

 

[johns74]

I don't know how to compare the other study from the thread Dietary fat intake below 15% depletes PUFA because I didn't find the linoleic acid of the claimed depleted patients.

 

[johns74]

Probably haidut didn't mean to mislead, but the thread title is highly misleading, in the context of a person who thinks of the 4 year number Peat gives to deplete PUFA, and compares it to two weeks. The 'depletion' you get can result in a linoleic acid percentage higher than a person who hasn't even dieted.

 

[cantstoppeating]

Probably haidut didn't mean to mislead, but the thread title is highly misleading, in the context of a person who thinks of the 4 year number Peat gives to deplete PUFA, and compares it to two weeks. The 'depletion' you get can result in a linoleic acid percentage higher than a person who hasn't even dieted.

Going from 48.8% to 9.8% within 2 weeks is a significant reduction. Given another two weeks, perhaps they'd have dropped below Brown's initial 5.7%. And perhaps given a starting percent of, say 30%, they'd have reached below 5.7% within the same 2 weeks.

It seems likely that we can accelerate PUFA depletion and thus attain the consequent metabolic benefits within a month or two rather than waiting 4 years.

I'm finding a fat free diet very difficult to follow, largely because of fat's satiety producing effects, but practically it seems reasonable to do a 2 or 4 week fat free stint to quickly deplete a large amount of PUFA before reintroducing saturated fat.

 

[paymanz]

I'm finding a fat free diet very difficult to follow, largely because of fat's satiety producing effects, but practically it seems reasonable to do a 2 or 4 week fat free stint to quickly deplete a large amount of PUFA before reintroducing saturated fat.

but saturated fats may have beneficial effects, as peat also say,by diluting PUFA in blood,of course a high carb diet also activates lipogenesis and we produce those good saturated fats in our body.
having some coconut oil and butter is good probably ,in fact in that period of time that you mentioned its better to have those good fats.ray also says he does not eat coconut oil recently ,maybe because he does not have so much PUFA in his body anymore

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I'm finding a fat free diet very difficult to follow, largely because of fat's satiety producing effects, but practically it seems reasonable to do a 2 or 4 week fat free stint to quickly deplete a large amount of PUFA before reintroducing saturated fat.

It is difficult, but if you can be very strict for six weeks and then take a break, you might find the results are entirely worth it. I was amazed.

Not entirely sure if you're doing this for fat loss cantstoppeating, but it works very well for that as well as lowering symptoms of too much estrogen. I found the reduced estrogen was extremely beneficial for my liver and thyroid gland. :2cents

 

[haidut]

Probably haidut didn't mean to mislead, but the thread title is highly misleading, in the context of a person who thinks of the 4 year number Peat gives to deplete PUFA, and compares it to two weeks. The 'depletion' you get can result in a linoleic acid percentage higher than a person who hasn't even dieted.

I didn't mean to mislead but just like canstoppeating said earlier, given the 80% reduction in linoleic acid I thought the title is appropriate. I did not say complete or even significant depletion since I thought that those qualifiers would be even more misleading. If you think there is a better way of conveying the results of the study let me know and I will change it.

 

[narouz]

Probably haidut didn't mean to mislead, but the thread title is highly misleading, in the context of a person who thinks of the 4 year number Peat gives to deplete PUFA, and compares it to two weeks. The 'depletion' you get can result in a linoleic acid percentage higher than a person who hasn't even dieted.

Undoubtedly, a shifty one that haidut.
Mods!

 

[johns74]

If you think there is a better way of conveying the results of the study let me know and I will change it.

I think changing depletion to reduction removes the sensationalistic aspect.

 

[haidut]

If you think there is a better way of conveying the results of the study let me know and I will change it.

I think changing depletion to reduction removes the sensationalistic aspect.

It won't let me change it, but maybe the mods can do it for me. Btw, the study talks about inducing EFA deficiency so I think depletion is also an apt word.

 

[jyb]

If your diet is say 2% PUFA (take a number at random), wouldn't you expect your tissue to converge to 2% PUFA (actually, this may much more or much less than 2%, but a fixed number) over the long run? What I worry about is that if you go deplete, but then go back to your diet, it would convergence to that fixed point again, hence those painful PUFA depletion weeks are not worth it. I mean if it takes X weeks to reduce, wouldn't you expect X or Y week to gain? I would make one exception if you have lots of initial PUFA stored (if you're overweight?), then I see more logic because it might become a tool to accelerate convergence to that fixed point for a starting point as it might take too long otherwise.

 

[Strongbad]

I may try this later this summer. It's only 2 weeks, so it's achievable.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

This depends entirely on ones body fat percentage. The more body fat, the longer it will take. Also, being fed though a drip IV, a catheter, or a nasogastric tube is not practical.

Complete depletion is impossible as it's naturally occurring in nearly all foodstuffs:

"Unfortunately, it is impossible to devise a fat-free diet outside of a laboratory. Vegetables, grains, nuts, fish and meats all naturally contain large amounts of these oils, and the extra oil used in cooking becomes a more serious problem." - RP

 

[DaveFoster]

Unfortunately, it is impossible to devise a fat-free diet outside of a laboratory.

Looks like I'm switching my major to biochem.

 

[michael94]

Well fasting could do it ...

Also, as has been mentioned here before, dietary cholesterol works in favor of depleting EFA. I'm not sure how much dietary cholesterol is needed to get rid of 1g of PUFA but that's an important longterm consideration since most of us will be eating fat.

 

[Velve921]

It is difficult, but if you can be very strict for six weeks and then take a break, you might find the results are entirely worth it. I was amazed.

Not entirely sure if you're doing this for fat loss cantstoppeating, but it works very well for that as well as lowering symptoms of too much estrogen. I found the reduced estrogen was extremely beneficial for my liver and thyroid gland. :2cents

During this time what were the noticeable effects as you were fat free? I'm currently at 350 carbs/160 protein/ 110 fat...If I drop below 110 grams of fat or lower my calories under 3,000 a day my urination picks up like crazy and I can't sleep well at all. So I'm trying to decide if this process of uncomfortability will be worth it in the yet.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Hi Ewlevy1....I distinctly remember my skin clearing up, PMS became a distant memory, I lost a lot of excess body fat and also needed to reduce my thyroid medication. There may have been other benefits, I don't recall at the moment. That experiment took place a year and half ago and as a middle aged woman I found it very beneficial. Your hormonal profile is likely very different than mine and so might not be worth it.

 

[superhuman]

Hi Ewlevy1....I distinctly remember my skin clearing up, PMS became a distant memory, I lost a lot of excess body fat and also needed to reduce my thyroid medication. There may have been other benefits, I don't recall at the moment. That experiment took place a year and half ago and as a middle aged woman I found it very beneficial. Your hormonal profile is likely very different than mine and so might not be worth it.

How did you do it in terms of foods you ate, calories daily? and what was the macro nutrient split in terms of grams of carb,fat and protein. Would be cool if you could share

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Hi superhuman,

I ate a lot of shrimp, scallops, Fage 0% fat free yogurt, frozen fruit smoothies, gelatin, lotsa coffee with 1% milk, lotsa salt, spices and lemon juice squeezed for flavor, well cooked greens, cucumbers tomatoes, low fat cottage cheese, grapes, OJ, fat free beef jerky, lotsa B vitamins, Jarlsberg 50% reduced fat Swiss cheese, steamed asparagus, oysters, liver & onions once a week, poached cod....surely I'm forgetting something. At any rate, NO butter, very limited eggs. NO starch, just fruit and vegetables.

I was very strict for 6 weeks at a time and then I took a break for a few weeks and then repeated it, always keeping fat well under 20 grams per day, often under 10 grams. If I had a social event then I took one cheat meal. If the fat cravings became unbearable then I would take a cheat meal and eat high fat for that one meal, but never more than once a week. I always made sure to get more calcium than phosphorous.

I did this over the course of one summer, not sure I'd try it during the cold and dark of winter. I used thyroid medication and often saved OJ and low fat Swiss cheese for a bedtime snack. Calories varied from day to day, some days were quite low and other days I was more hungry so I ate more. I didn't do any exercise at the time....I'm pretty sure I shared all of this somewhere on the forum, but I cannot remember where.

I had tons of excess body fat to spare, I don't think I'd try something like this unless you are 40 or 50 pounds over your ideal weight. I was 170 lbs. and only 5'2" tall. My current weight fluctuates between 130 and 135 lbs, while still not ideal, I have not gotten serious about losing the last 10 to 15 pounds.

My completely non-expert opinion is that each person needs to do whatever works for them. My diet prior to finding Peat included truly massive amounts of PUFA and I was miserable with wicked symptoms of estrogen dominance. What worked for me, may not work for you. I won't lie, it was NOT EASY. I was hungry at times. I had moments of pretty intense fat cravings and by the end of it I had come to despise fat free Greek yogurt, lol.