Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth

[Tarmander]

And if you start telling family and friends about Peat's ideas, they probably assume (1) he's a crackpot and (2) you're looking for an excuse to not follow the mainstream advice (which they assume is difficult to follow but is effective for people that actually follow it).

Gaah this is so true. I deal with this all the time. People think you're crazy with your advice, and the mainstream advice is the way to go, but they are just not strong enough to follow it. It is like trying to unbrainwash someone. "No really, all those cravings for sugar are actually healthy, you'd actually be better off gaining a few pounds for a faster metabolism."

The whole thing is kind of like a form of gas lighting. People believe they are the weak ones, they have no willpower, their ill health is their own personal failing, they are the reason it isn't working, not the advice, and they have to struggle harder.

 

[Ukall]

This! The whole idea of enlightment, being present and such and such is just too much words and concept to even mean anything at all.
They all running in circle with that thing and try to extract the most they can with an already juiced up concept. What's supposed to be the result of all of this?

People should be much more concern about their I/O balance then anything else. Go too much one way or the other and you end doing nothing at all...

Well, speaking for myself, if I didn't discover spiritual stuff, I would still probably be laying on my bed depressed thinking how miserable my life was and the best strategy to suicide myself; get drunk with my friends and the next day feel miserable and alone; and playing video games.
Since then, I started my journey and I am here now looking for ways to improve my health and not ways to kill my health. I think it did some *click* on me.
Eckhart Tolle for me was the simplest one I've ever heard. It is like Jim Carry said: "I suddenly got it."

However, "such and such" may be needed for some people, I don't know.
Although, if I had the opportunity to hear any spiritual teacher like Eckhart Tolle, Sri Mooji (the ones I most heard that time), I would gladly hear them. They are funny and make me laugh, why not? :p
And if I can learn something with them even better.

So far, it's working out unbelievably well and I'm not even very strict about it.

You're lucky. The first time I tried "borderline" advice, it didn't ended up well.
The problem for me was the moment you want to try something different, you are completely on your own. If something goes wrong, you're pretty screwed. Asking for help around you, no one will listen and they will simply call you crazy. Because you are ignorant and they are even more ignorant than you. And MDs are like "dresses the white coat, prescript you some SSRIs". The fact it went wrong, the more confident they feel, because it was what they wanted to see after all.
So now, I will be back to my "normal" life for a while and going back to traditional medicine (which help me the most in the past. Better than SSRIs for sure), at least to stabilize. Essentially because I became a fearful baby after my experience. I am ignorant, but so much ignorant. My lesson was: first read, second read, then read, and read again,... did I say read? Read a lot. Because jumping blindly to something that you find interesting and, deep inside not knowing what you are doing, can ruin your life, like mine.
But well, on the other hand, when a person wants to escape the vicious cycle of being unfulfilled all the time and sees some light, he follows it blindly no matter what. However, that light may not be the light you were expecting to be. And, actually, can make you feel worse.

Yes, I sometimes wonder if it's by design. That they want people to be sick.

I'm with you with that, even though it's kind of a conspiracy approach. Still, pharmaceuticals live because diseases exist.

Becoming aware of that you are not your mind, but that which observes the mind

That's one definition. There are multiple ones xD. Still, that one is very interesting.
@Pet Peeve , did you read the The Power Of Now too?

 

[mt_dreams]

Becoming aware of that you are not your mind, but that which observes the mind

This seems more like a process than anything else.

I guess I'm just stuck in the observer is the observed mentality. Which would mean that they are the same thing. The original observer is the accumulation of past (be it knowledge, experience, information, etc). Being able to observe the observer is merely just another piece of knowledge/skill that one has accumulated, but it's still all taking place in the mind. thus the observer is the observed.

 

[Dessert_All_Day]

You're lucky. The first time I tried "borderline" advice, it didn't ended up well.
The problem for me was the moment you want to try something different, you are completely on your own. If something goes wrong, you're pretty screwed. Asking for help around you, no one will listen and they will simply call you crazy. Because you are ignorant and they are even more ignorant than you. And MDs are like "dresses the white coat, prescript you some SSRIs". The fact it went wrong, the more confident they feel, because it was what they wanted to see after all.

Yeah, my first several weeks were pretty rough actually now that I'm looking back on it. But then things improved in a hurry.

A lot can go wrong if you're too high on fat (even saturated), too low on sugar or sodium, too much fluid, too low on protein, or exercising too much, etc. It's such a personal thing as each person is very different, especially in terms of cravings. But after some initial serious bloating, my digestion improved so remarkably in such a short period that I knew Peat was on to something. And now I'm functioning better than I have in years in terms of my digestion, mood, sleep, motivation, etc. Peat has been a godsend.

But having said that, stuff can go very wrong if you're not remaining somewhat sane. It's a lot like spirituality. Loss of ego is generally very healthy, but thinking you've lost your ego when you really haven't can lead to disastrous consequences. Baby steps.

 

[Ukall]

But having said that, stuff can go very wrong if you're not remaining somewhat sane. It's a lot like spirituality. Loss of ego is generally very healthy, but thinking you've lost your ego when you really haven't can lead to disastrous consequences. Baby steps.

Those were some wise words.
I think I become insane to the point my day consisted only on getting up and read articles, forums on the Internet. Meanwhile I was missing classes, missing exams, not living at all. I wasn't feeling well, so I had to search for answers. Then again, I wasn't feel well, so I had to search for answer... It never ended.
And, everybody knows answers won't come up on a simple search on the Internet.
My stress hormones were (and still are a bit) so high that I was always feeling tightness from my throat and chest, shortness of breath, severe insomnia, etc... And if you ask me what was the cause of it, I would still answer you "I don't know..."

Perhaps, when I feel confident enough, I may start 'peating' on a more serious way. However, it can go wrong also.
So for now, I will just read what people have to say and learn with them :p

 

[Pet Peeve]

@Pet Peeve , did you read the The Power Of Now too?

Yes, a long time ago as an audiobook, but I didn't understand much. A New Earth was easier to grasp for me.

The original observer is the accumulation of past (be it knowledge, experience, information, etc). Being able to observe the observer is merely just another piece of knowledge/skill that one has accumulated, but it's still all taking place in the mind. thus the observer is the observed.

To me the mind is language. You can't think without language, because then it wouldn't be thinking - by definition. So the observer is that which observes the language-thinking mind. When you get a break from thinking then you are present. You can train yourself by sitting alone in a quiet room and let your mind go quiet.

 

[mt_dreams]

Yes, a long time ago as an audiobook, but I didn't understand much. A New Earth was easier to grasp for me.



To me the mind is language. You can't think without language, because then it wouldn't be thinking - by definition. So the observer is that which observes the language-thinking mind. When you get a break from thinking then you are present. You can train yourself by sitting alone in a quiet room and let your mind go quiet.

So in essence it's observing without thinking. I like the idea of that, but is it even possible without substances? If I'm looking at a tree without thinking, isin't my brain still unconsciously reviewing what it's observing with all the prior tree info/sign posts that are stored in my memory. Seeing a tree with virgin eyes seems to be almost impossible. I would expect to have an mental orgasm every time I gazed upon a tree.

I had a low dose shroom experience in nature last fall and I feel I may have experienced this type of experience. Every leaf I gazed upon seemed miraculous, and I just felt complete joy with everything surrounding me ... almost like I had never come into contact with these things 1000 of times prior. If this is what is considered observing without thinking (aka all past knowledge/info), then I have never achieved this without mind altering substances. This blocking of sign posts or regular thought seems to only happen when I'm on shrooms.

I'm not one of these people who needs distraction, so I do spend lots of time observing without any mental chatter. I just don't think this is the same as the term enlightenment ... not that I have a clue what enlightenment is.

 

[Pet Peeve]

So in essence it's observing without thinking. I like the idea of that, but is it even possible without substances? If I'm looking at a tree without thinking, isin't my brain still unconsciously reviewing what it's observing with all the prior tree info/sign posts that are stored in my memory. Seeing a tree with virgin eyes seems to be almost impossible. I would expect to have an mental orgasm every time I gazed upon a tree.

I had a low dose shroom experience in nature last fall and I feel I may have experienced this type of experience. Every leaf I gazed upon seemed miraculous, and I just felt complete joy with everything surrounding me ... almost like I had never come into contact with these things 1000 of times prior. If this is what is considered observing without thinking (aka all past knowledge/info), then I have never achieved this without mind altering substances. This blocking of sign posts or regular thought seems to only happen when I'm on shrooms.

I'm not one of these people who needs distraction, so I do spend lots of time observing without any mental chatter. I just don't think this is the same as the term enlightenment ... not that I have a clue what enlightenment is.

It's not the action of not thinking that is enlightenment, rather that practicing non-thinking leads to enlightenment. Enlightenment is the realisation that you are not your mind. Your arm is a tool, if you get your arm chopped off, you would still be you. In the same way, you are still you when you quiet your mind, or rather the real you comes forward. The way you talk about gazing upon a tree shows that you already get it, the important word here is "labelling", when you look at the tree with a quiet mind you look at the tree without attaching a mental label to it.

With a quiet mind the inherent joy of being becomes evident because the natural state of being is one of joy. The mind on the other hand is a tool to plan for the future, so to be prepared for the future the mind needs to imagine the worst case scenario that can happen in the future to keep you safe, to be on top of things so to speak. Therefore the mind is inherently negative. When your mind is running it's mostly negative stuff, like how you want to beat up someone who insulted you etc.

One way of experiencing presence without the mind is to be alone in a quiet room. Put an alarmclock to go off after 20 minutes. Then just sit the whole 20 minutes looking at the same spot, or change spots now and then. Quiet your mind by not paying attention to the thoughts that pop up in your mind, just let them wash over you like noise. It's trying to not think for 20 minutes, though this is the wrong way to put it, because it's shouldn't be an active effort - see what I mean? It will be hard at first, but if you stick to it even the first time you try this after maybe 15 minutes you get an amazing feeling of being present. That you are really in the room and in the world, much stronger than you have felt it since you were a child.

 

[milomag]

What Eckhart Tolle points to and what you ARE can be found here: , , , ,
And to get yet another fascinating take on this, (more conceptual and funny), listen to Paul Hedderman.

 

[LUH 3417]

We are all enlightened, it's something already within us. But it's obscured, because we are simply lost and possessed by our mind.
Like when it's a cloudy day, we cannot see the sun. However, the sun (enlightenment) is still there and the clouds (mind) are covering it.
This is how understood enlightenment. Ok, there are other 'gurus' that define it on another way. Yet, they all point to the same thing, hopefully.


"because the way from unhappiness or suffering to transcendence it's easier than the way of superficial happiness to transcendence. Superficial happiness keeps you in the dream world for quite a while."
It seems harsh saying this, but it has some truth. When you are lost in the superficial/dream world, it's harder to transcend. I mean, that's why when people lose their job or lose a family member or lose their house or have a disease for some moment they feel depersonalized: who am I now?
On a scientific point of view, I've already read our gut flora changes when we have some traumatic experience. It's pretty interesting too, despite not knowing if this is really truth or not.

And again, I prefer knowing that there different explanations that point to the same thing. And which one serves and helps a person, IMO, it is always a plus. Mixing both point of views, even better.
In my experience, it was through meditation that I started looking and being aware of my body. Only after that, I started to respect what my body wanted and this got me into nutrition and health.

Why is India, land of enlightenment, also one of the most rigid caste systems to exist? I'm not saying spiritual interests automatically lead to rigid social organization, but it's something I've been thinking about. The vedas mention organization in a way that shows the many facets of man, and this small part of scripture was distorted and turned into a means for social control. Not to mention the strong connection between Hitler, aryan revival, and Ancient Indian history/philosophy.

Also it's undeniable that a lot of new age thought leaders who were popularized in the 60s and 70s in the US were part of covert operations and affiliated with powerful institutions with a major objective being to subdue strategic political resistance and organization against the government. This is well referenced and documented in many different books and sources. I'd love to believe that the recent promotion of spirituality is innocuous but spending your days meditating while the government is militarizing just seems kind of suspect.