Eating Cruciferous Vegetables To Improve Caffeine Tolerance

[Collden]

It seems the individual differences in how well we tolerate caffeine has a lot to do with how quickly we can metabolise it. The literature suggests that people who are fast metabolisers of caffeine experience positive health effects of increasing coffee consumption, presumably due to being able to rapidly neutralise the caffeine while enjoying more of the other nutrients found in coffee. On the other hand slow caffeine metabolisers show increased risk of disease with increasing coffee consumption. This would suggest that caffeine itself has little beneficial effect on the body beyond perhaps as a hormetic stimulus, and the apparent benefit of increasing caffeine consumption just acts as a proxy for your overall liver health and ability to metabolise poisons.

In this regard its been found that cruciferous vegetable consumption substantially increases the activity of the enzyme that metabolises caffeine, CYP1A2. In one study, eating 500g of broccoli per day more than doubled the activity of this enzyme in men.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17266520

Has anyone tried this, to consume a lot of cruciferous vegetables and see if it has improved the way that coffee affects you?

 

[MrThyroid]

It seems the individual differences in how well we tolerate caffeine has a lot to do with how quickly we can metabolise it. The literature suggests that people who are fast metabolisers of caffeine experience positive health effects of increasing coffee consumption, presumably due to being able to rapidly neutralise the caffeine while enjoying more of the other nutrients found in coffee. On the other hand slow caffeine metabolisers show increased risk of disease with increasing coffee consumption. This would suggest that caffeine itself has little beneficial effect on the body beyond perhaps as a hormetic stimulus, and the apparent benefit of increasing caffeine consumption just acts as a proxy for your overall liver health and ability to metabolise poisons.

In this regard its been found that cruciferous vegetable consumption substantially increases the activity of the enzyme that metabolises caffeine, CYP1A2. In one study, eating 500g of broccoli per day more than doubled the activity of this enzyme in men.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17266520

Has anyone tried this, to consume a lot of cruciferous vegetables and see if it has improved the way that coffee affects you?

lol thats why i get really sleepy and relaxed if i eat brocoli or onions never took that into account but it seems be true.

 

[Aleeri]

Well, cruciferous vegetables can inhibit thyroid function so that would be a reverse effect from why you would consume caffeine in the first place?

I'm a fast metabolizer as confirmed by DNA testing. The only time I ever had issues with caffeine is when I do not consume enough sugar/carbs and salt as well as overdoing it on fluids.

It's so obvious when you compare coffee on an empty stomach as opposed to after a meal. Same deal with nicotine, there is the reason why people always favor smoking after meals.

I see them as metabolic boosters, and if your metabolism is messed up or you don't have enough fuel to support the boost then yes you will get problems.

 

[MrThyroid]

Well, cruciferous vegetables can inhibit thyroid function so that would be a reverse effect from why you would consume caffeine in the first place?

I'm a fast metabolizer as confirmed by DNA testing. The only time I ever had issues with caffeine is when I do not consume enough sugar/carbs and salt as well as overdoing it on fluids.

It's so obvious when you compare coffee on an empty stomach as opposed to after a meal. Same deal with nicotine, there is the reason why people always favor smoking after meals.

I see them as metabolic boosters, and if your metabolism is messed up or you don't have enough fuel to support the boost then yes you will get problems.

maybe ppl want cut bodyfat.
I also like to consume coffe on empty stomach but not everytime i also red that coffe chelats alot of micros. Thats why i prefer in the morning the coffe, lemon, cider vinegar combo

 

[Vinero]

lol don't listen to this guy, cruciferous vegetables will only lead to impaired thyroid function and slower metabolism in my opinion.
The people who are slow metabolizers of caffeine are simply low-thyroid people with sluggish liver.
You can rapidly become a fast caffeine metabolizer by following Peats guidelines, eating a lot of good food, getting liver-protective nutrients like vitamin K and B-vitamins.
It has been mentioned before that the way a person handles caffeine is a proxy for liver function,
A person with healthy liver will metabolize caffeine faster and with greater ease than someone with a sluggish liver.
Since caffeine actually improves liver function itself, it might be best to supplement as much coffee as you can tolerate.
This way your liver will heal itself faster.

 

[Wagner83]

Do people actually experience lowered thyroid activity from eating cruciferous veggies and broccolis in particular or is it something people brainlessly accept like I do? I used to like broccolis.

 

[lampofred]

Cruciferous vegetables lower 5 alpha reductase I think.

 

[dbh25]

Starbucks will introduce a brocco-cino

 

[Aleeri]

I used to slam cruciferous veggies daily with the hopes it would improve my estrogen levels. I still had issues with estrogen levels.

Now I don't eat them at all. Makes no difference so I see no point in consuming them when I can use those calories/cost for good tasting stuff like fruit and chocolate.

 

[Wagner83]

Some have good nutrtion inside, broccoli is rich in selenium for example.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Five men and five women...
​

Yeah...

 

[Aleeri]

Some have good nutrtion inside, broccoli is rich in selenium for example.

So are brazil nuts, along with PUFA.

 

[Richiebogie]

It is interesting that the cruciferous veggies are all the same species!

Brussels sprouts, kale, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, collard greens etc are all cultivars of brassica oleracea!

It has a number of b vitamins...

Maybe you will only crave it if you don't eat any other fruit or veg for a while.

 

[MrThyroid]

lol don't listen to this guy, cruciferous vegetables will only lead to impaired thyroid function and slower metabolism in my opinion.
The people who are slow metabolizers of caffeine are simply low-thyroid people with sluggish liver.
You can rapidly become a fast caffeine metabolizer by following Peats guidelines, eating a lot of good food, getting liver-protective nutrients like vitamin K and B-vitamins.
It has been mentioned before that the way a person handles caffeine is a proxy for liver function,
A person with healthy liver will metabolize caffeine faster and with greater ease than someone with a sluggish liver.
Since caffeine actually improves liver function itself, it might be best to supplement as much coffee as you can tolerate.
This way your liver will heal itself faster.

your body metabolizes substances differentely, it depends on your ethnicity. you cant change your genetics. You can be hyperthyroidism but still metabolize substances slower then invidual x y z. Its not like that easy bro

I used to slam cruciferous veggies daily with the hopes it would improve my estrogen levels. I still had issues with estrogen levels.

Now I don't eat them at all. Makes no difference so I see no point in consuming them when I can use those calories/cost for good tasting stuff like fruit and chocolate.

you said before you are ultra fast metabolizier so why you have elevated estrogen lvls, because if you are ultra fast metabolizers it doenst mean you can metabolize everything fast it always depends.
So like some guys mention just drink coffe ,all problems will disapear nope its not easy like that, because you cant change your DNA which is responsible for how fast you metabolize caffeine, estrogens what ever. It depends how many cyp450 enzymes you have and how many copies of this genes which produce those enzymes.
Btw broccoli increase one cyp450 enzym which is responsible for metabolizing estrogen and other xenobiotics

 

[mr.mag]

cooked cruciferous vegetables may be pro thyroid vs. raw

 

[Aleeri]

your body metabolizes substances differentely, it depends on your ethnicity. you cant change your genetics. You can be hyperthyroidism but still metabolize substances slower then invidual x y z. Its not like that easy bro



you said before you are ultra fast metabolizier so why you have elevated estrogen lvls, because if you are ultra fast metabolizers it doenst mean you can metabolize everything fast it always depends.
So like some guys mention just drink coffe ,all problems will disapear nope its not easy like that, because you cant change your DNA which is responsible for how fast you metabolize caffeine, estrogens what ever. It depends how many cyp450 enzymes you have and how many copies of this genes which produce those enzymes.
Btw broccoli increase one cyp450 enzym which is responsible for metabolizing estrogen and other xenobiotics

Sorry bro but you can produce change, its called epigenetics: Epigenetics: The Science of Change

I'm a fast metabolizer of caffeine yes, that does not mean you're a fast metabolizer of everything else, such as estrogen. There are many different CYP enzymes:

• CYP1A1 – removes toxins, but can also activate some cancer-causing agents. Gene variants increase the risk of certain kinds of cancer.
• CYP1A2 – a key enzyme for clearing caffeine. Gene variants have a big impact on how coffee will affect our bodies.
• CYP1B1 – helps combat oxidative stress. Lower activity of this enzyme may protect against obesity and cancer.
• CYP2A6 – helps process nicotine. There is a link between this enzyme’s activity, smoking, and lung cancer risk.
• CYP2B6 – clears clinical drugs. The gene is highly variable.
• CYP2C8 – helps clear many clinical drugs including NSAIDs (diclofenac, ibuprofen).
• CYP2C9 – clears up to 15-20% of all clinical drugs, including warfarin. Gene variants greatly affect the way we react to these drugs.
• CYP2C19 – helps clear about 10% of common clinical drugs, including omeprazole and Plavix. High enzyme activity was linked to depression.
• CYP2D6 – clears 20% of clinical drugs, including codeine. This enzyme also affects dopamine and serotonin levels and affects human personality and behavior traits.
• CYP2E1 – metabolizes alcohol and eliminates Tylenol. It can both clear or activate toxins. It plays a role in alcohol-related disease and cancer.
• CYP3A4 – clears 45 – 60% of currently prescribed drugs. Different foods and supplements can decrease CYP3A4 activity and interfere with drug metabolism.
• CYP3A5 – Do you have this enzyme? Many people don’t. In people who do have it, it helps clear over 50% of clinical drugs.

I have slower CYP1A1 function, which is one of the ones implicated in estrogen metabolism: https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/cyp1a1/

Yes this enzyme CYP1A1 can be increased by consuming broccoli etc, it is DIM and Indole-3-carbinol that does this, but they are both also potent anti-androgens: https://www.google.co.th/search?q=I...me..69i57j0.2982j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I saw little effect on my estrogen levels from using them. In my case thyroid function and progesterone is much more important and has produced better results.

You can increase detoxification of estrogens all you want but increasing that enzyme can also cause increased activation of other cancer-causing agents. Is it not a better approach to correct the overproduction of estrogen in the first place? Otherwise, it is simply like being on a sinking ship, you're just removing water at a faster rate, but you're still sinking.

 

[MrThyroid]

Sorry bro but you can produce change, its called epigenetics: Epigenetics: The Science of Change

I'm a fast metabolizer of caffeine yes, that does not mean you're a fast metabolizer of everything else, such as estrogen. There are many different CYP enzymes:

• CYP1A1 – removes toxins, but can also activate some cancer-causing agents. Gene variants increase the risk of certain kinds of cancer.
• CYP1A2 – a key enzyme for clearing caffeine. Gene variants have a big impact on how coffee will affect our bodies.
• CYP1B1 – helps combat oxidative stress. Lower activity of this enzyme may protect against obesity and cancer.
• CYP2A6 – helps process nicotine. There is a link between this enzyme’s activity, smoking, and lung cancer risk.
• CYP2B6 – clears clinical drugs. The gene is highly variable.
• CYP2C8 – helps clear many clinical drugs including NSAIDs (diclofenac, ibuprofen).
• CYP2C9 – clears up to 15-20% of all clinical drugs, including warfarin. Gene variants greatly affect the way we react to these drugs.
• CYP2C19 – helps clear about 10% of common clinical drugs, including omeprazole and Plavix. High enzyme activity was linked to depression.
• CYP2D6 – clears 20% of clinical drugs, including codeine. This enzyme also affects dopamine and serotonin levels and affects human personality and behavior traits.
• CYP2E1 – metabolizes alcohol and eliminates Tylenol. It can both clear or activate toxins. It plays a role in alcohol-related disease and cancer.
• CYP3A4 – clears 45 – 60% of currently prescribed drugs. Different foods and supplements can decrease CYP3A4 activity and interfere with drug metabolism.
• CYP3A5 – Do you have this enzyme? Many people don’t. In people who do have it, it helps clear over 50% of clinical drugs.

I have slower CYP1A1 function, which is one of the ones implicated in estrogen metabolism: https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/cyp1a1/

Yes this enzyme CYP1A1 can be increased by consuming broccoli etc, it is DIM and Indole-3-carbinol that does this, but they are both also potent anti-androgens: https://www.google.co.th/search?q=I...me..69i57j0.2982j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I saw little effect on my estrogen levels from using them. In my case thyroid function and progesterone is much more important and has produced better results.

You can increase detoxification of estrogens all you want but increasing that enzyme can also cause increased activation of other cancer-causing agents. Is it not a better approach to correct the overproduction of estrogen in the first place? Otherwise, it is simply like being on a sinking ship, you're just removing water at a faster rate, but you're still sinking.

that what i meant if you ultra fast metabolizer it doenst mean that you metabolize everything fast also if you re hyperthyroid that you metabolize everything ultra fast.

What do you think about onions, garlic or ginger etc ? They does also increase detoxifacation with out beeing aromatase inhibitors

btw i found this interesting site CYP3A5 - Wikipedia telling us how many % each ethnic group has those special cyp450 enzymes.
What i noticed that ppl from noth africa, middle east and sub-Equatorial Africa have highest % of those cyp450 enzymes also they have highest testosterone .
There is a clear link between those enzymes and testosterone lvl

 

[Aleeri]

that what i meant if you ultra fast metabolizer it doenst mean that you metabolize everything fast also if you re hyperthyroid that you metabolize everything ultra fast.

What do you think about onions, garlic or ginger etc ? They does also increase detoxifacation with out beeing aromatase inhibitors

btw i found this interesting site CYP3A5 - Wikipedia telling us how many % each ethnic group has those special cyp450 enzymes.
What i noticed that ppl from noth africa, middle east and sub-Equatorial Africa have highest % of those cyp450 enzymes also they have highest testosterone .
There is a clear link between those enzymes and testosterone lvl

Right!

Well, garlic I seem to get brain fog and stuff from, at least in cooking. I'm not 100% convinced yet but I am avoiding it now for a bit as a test, onions included. There were some CBS genes in my DNA test that indicated a potential sulfur sensitivity. If I did not have it I would include them on a daily basis for the flavor alone.

Concerning ginger, I daily consume Black Ginger (Kaempferia parviflora) which is a Thai medicinal herb related to ginger and galangal. It is used here to boost sexual function and endurance, the research I have seen on it supports increased blood flow as well as a dopamine and increased energy expenditure. In my view its an interesting herb in line with Peat thinking that I am experimenting with. Same with Butea Superba, another Thai herb that increases DHT and is an anti-estrogen to some degree.

I have a website about hormones and will start selling the above herbs soon, personally sourced them here in Thailand directly from farmers. It is a shame they not more known in the mainstream considering how beneficial they are.

Very interesting link, I am Finish ethnicity.

 

[Wagner83]

Concerning ginger, I daily consume Black Ginger (Kaempferia parviflora) which is a Thai medicinal herb related to ginger and galangal.

It sounds like it ought to have kaempferol in it.

 

[Aleeri]

It sounds like it ought to have kaempferol in it.

Examine: Kaempferia parviflora - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects

"Do Not Confuse With
Kaempferol (an isolated flavonoid), Turmeric (looks similar, different active compounds)"

But I also found this among constituents:
"3,7,4′-trimethylkaempferol at 0.0719% and tetramethylkaempferol at 0.0070% (derivatives of Kaempferol)[7]"

So not sure what to make of it.