Eat More Or Eat Less To Lower Estrogen?

[lampofred]

It seems like a catch-22 to me...

Eating less lowers aromatase through weight loss but reduces thyroid function which will increase estrogen. Increased insulin sensitivity will also help to lower estrogen.

Eating more will increase aromatase through weight gain but may improve thyroid function which will help liver clear out estrogen. Lessened insulin sensitivity from regularly overeating (if you're not carefully avoiding PUFAs) will increase estrogen in the long-term.

Does anyone know what Peat says about eating to lower aromatase in addition to getting adequate protein and avoiding PUFA?

 

[Mittir]

RP was asked about fat cells increasing estrogen and his reply was that
PUFA in fat cells is the cause for that. If one is PUFA free then there should
not be estrogen increase from fat cells.

He also mentioned that caloric deficiency will force body to burn
ingested PUFA as soon as it is inside the body and will also
regularly burn stored fat which may reduce PUFA storage.
It all depends on how much PUFA we have in storage, how much
we are eating, how good is liver function to detox released PUFA etc.

Another big factor in increasing estrogen is endotoxin from
ingested foods. Easily digestible food will reduce endotoxin load
and that will improve liver function in managing estrogen and
all sorts of toxins. Overeating increases the intake
of natural toxins like iron, heavy metals etc. He mentioned
an article that found that one can achieve benefit of caloric restriction
by reducing heavy metals in regular caloric diet.

I currently overeat without gaining weight, i lost about 25
pounds in first year of peating. I feel worse when i eat less.
I hope i will be able to eat less in future, It feels like a lot of
work constantly eating, but i feel way better than before.

 

[superhuman]

@Mittir cool. How much are you eating a day now, in terms of calories? and how frequent etc?

 

[Mittir]

@Mittir cool. How much are you eating a day now, in terms of calories? and how frequent etc?

My maintenance caloric requirement based on weight, height and activity is around 2000.
I eat close to 3000. I am eating almost every one to two hour, it is mainly liquid based.
I don't drink water so, i would drink a cup of milk or juice every hour or two.
I do not force myself to eat anything, it is not hunger but i get craving every hour or two.
After waking up i drink 1 cup of apple juice or Coffee Milk with extra 2 tbs of sugar.
I eat like that through out the day. My lunch is regular foods like rice, chicken, beef,
bread, pizza etc. Half cup of ice cream before bed. Few tbs of coconut oil during daytime.
When available i eat a lot of ripe fruits like papaya, pineapple, apple etc
From sunset to bed time i would drink a cup of milk or juice almost every hour.
I avoid solid foods after sunset.

I think 400 watt incandescent bright light causes me to drink this much fluid.
I think fructose, coconut oil and high calcium intake played a big role
in weight loss. My protein intake is around 80 grams.
I remove the fat from the boiled raw milk that floats on top.
It tastes like 2 percent milk. I also regularly eat
fried foods in the afternoon, that adds a lot of calories too.
I drink chicken neck soup once or twice a day.
Otther supplements i am using are vitamin D3 4,000 IU,
vitamin E 200 IU, half to one mg of cyproheptadine once or twice a day.
One oz of liver everyday. I treat it as a supplement.

In the beginning i could not tolerate excess fluid.
Now, it is not a problem.

 

[superhuman]

@Mittir Thats cool, thanx a on. Im currently doing no fat and i do it as part of fat loss as well, so i dont dare adding some coconut oil :P

 

[Mittir]

@Mittir Thats cool, thanx a on. Im currently doing no fat and i do it as part of fat loss as well, so i dont dare adding some coconut oil :p

RP lost good amount of weight in a short period of time after adding few tbs of coconut oil.
Coconut oil is unique among all the oils including other saturated fats.
Coconut oil feels light and energising to me. Butter and all other oils
make me feel slow and heavy.

No fat diet should help with weight loss. But, if it does not work
you can experiment with few tbs of coconut oil for few weeks.
Problem with coconut oil is that some people get upset stomach
in the beginning. There is an adjustment period. Slowly increasing
the dose helps with the transition.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I gained weight eating coconut oil. It did nothing to help me that I could notice.

 

[honeybee]

My maintenance caloric requirement based on weight, height and activity is around 2000.
I eat close to 3000. I am eating almost every one to two hour, it is mainly liquid based.
I don't drink water so, i would drink a cup of milk or juice every hour or two.
I do not force myself to eat anything, it is not hunger but i get craving every hour or two.
After waking up i drink 1 cup of apple juice or Coffee Milk with extra 2 tbs of sugar.
I eat like that through out the day. My lunch is regular foods like rice, chicken, beef,
bread, pizza etc. Half cup of ice cream before bed. Few tbs of coconut oil during daytime.
When available i eat a lot of ripe fruits like papaya, pineapple, apple etc
From sunset to bed time i would drink a cup of milk or juice almost every hour.
I avoid solid foods after sunset.

I think 400 watt incandescent bright light causes me to drink this much fluid.
I think fructose, coconut oil and high calcium intake played a big role
in weight loss. My protein intake is around 80 grams.
I remove the fat from the boiled raw milk that floats on top.
It tastes like 2 percent milk. I also regularly eat
fried foods in the afternoon, that adds a lot of calories too.
I drink chicken neck soup once or twice a day.
Otther supplements i am using are vitamin D3 4,000 IU,
vitamin E 200 IU, half to one mg of cyproheptadine once or twice a day.
One oz of liver everyday. I treat it as a supplement.

In the beginning i could not tolerate excess fluid.
Now, it is not a problem.

Hi @Mittir -during your first year when you lost weight-were you using t3 or thyroid supplements? Thx.

 

[Mittir]

Hi @Mittir -during your first year when you lost weight-were you using t3 or thyroid supplements? Thx.

I was taking 25 mcg of T4 for sub clinical hypothyroidism before i found peat.
I did not lose weight then. First i lost 20 lbs when i stopped drinking all soda and
sugars. It totally convinced me that sugar is the evil along with all the studies i read
on fructose and sugar.

I was semi peaty for about 1 and a half year and i was following a lot of his
ideas but was avoiding sugar. I was sure fructose causes fatty liver and
it is the source of all other diseases. RP did not address this fatty liver issues
in his older sugar articles and Peat expert Matt Stone wrote a blog claiming
he was sure that Peat is wrong about Fructose. It took me another one and half year
of reading RP's articles to experiment with sugar and within 2 months i lost 14 lbs.

Then i lost another 7 lbs when i added coconut oil and egg shell powder.
In last one year i have only lost about 4 lbs but my muscle tone has improved a lot.

In the beginning i was only taking vitamin E 400 IU and Vitamin D 2000 iu.
T4 only is mostly problematic for females.

 

[Maretch]

Oh, sounds so strange about coconut oil, mostly because i use it every day and i feel much deflated. Generally i think that a spoon of coconut oil will never hurt, and i think the real problem are how many calories you eat a day, not the fact that you use coconut oil.

 

[Mittir]

Commercial coconut oil can have aflatoxin and that can cause a lot of problem.
I make my own coconut oil from fresh coconut meat.
I react badly to all the commercial coconut brands i tried.
It is also recommended to increase coconut oil intake slowly
to avoid upset stomach.

 

[Maretch]

Commercial coconut oil can have aflatoxin and that can cause a lot of problem.
I make my own coconut oil from fresh coconut meat.
I react badly to all the commercial coconut brands i tried.
It is also recommended to increase coconut oil intake slowly
to avoid upset stomach.

Please tell more, how do you prepare your coconut oil? I'm very interested!

 

[Mittir]

Please tell more, how do you prepare your coconut oil? I'm very interested!

My method involves insane amount of work.
It is quite risky too. You can easily get cuts during grating.
There are many youtube videos on homemade coconut
oil, they use much easier method.
This video shows the method i use. The guy should have used
heavier knife to open the coconut and his grated coconut has
some brown part of the coconut shell . I only grate the white part of the meat.

 

[Mittir]

Oh, sounds so strange about coconut oil, mostly because i use it every day and i feel much deflated. Generally i think that a spoon of coconut oil will never hurt, and i think the real problem are how many calories you eat a day, not the fact that you use coconut oil.

If it is not an Aflatoxin problem then you can have problem from coconut oil's
antibiotic property. In short term coconut oil can increase endotoxin by
killing bacteria.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I doubt that is true. Coconut oil can reduce endotoxins.

http://www.clinsci.org/content/ppclinsci/72/3/383.full.pdf

1. Dietary fat influences many aspects of immune function. Escherichia coli endotoxin is a potent stimulator of interleukin 1 production from macrophages. 2. The present study examines the effect of feeding with fat diets rich (corn oil) and poor (coconut oil) in linoleate at high and low concentrations on responses to endotoxin. 3. Spleen phosphatidylcholine linoleate contents were higher in the corn oil than in the coconut oil group and arachidonate concentrations were highest in the group fed a high concentration of corn oil. 4. Coconut oil completely abolished the responses to endotoxin. 5. The inhibitory effects of coconut oil could largely be due to reduced prostaglandin and leukotriene synthesis.

Coconut oil may have some aflatoxins but this study shows that storage and especially some sunlight decontaminated it:
IMSEAR at HELLIS: Mycotoxins in coconut based human and animal foodstuffs

As spontaneous loss of aflatoxins was previously observed during storage of contaminated coconut the possible cause of the loss were investigated by storing coconut oil under different laboratory conditions. Of the various natural factors studied (heat, light, enzymic activity) only sunlight was found to be effective. The effect was studied in detail. Detoxification of aflatoxins in coconut oil was brought about by subjecting oil in the form of a thin layer of about 2-4 cm. in thickness under experimental conditions to sunlight. The quality (FFA. coolur) of the treated oil was the same as the untreated oil.

 

[Mittir]

I mentioned that in short term coconut oil can increase endotoxin.
There is at least one study showing coconut oil increasing endotoxin.
Someone posted that study in this forum.
Similar thing happens with antibiotic use. In the beginning
endotoxin load increases from dead bacteria and
things settle down and later on total endotoxin load decreases.

In this study rats were fed coconut oil for 4 weeks
before injecting endotoxin.

 

[tara]

RP lost good amount of weight in a short period of time after adding few tbs of coconut oil.

Didn't he say he added about 250 cals of coconut oil? that's more like 3 tsp or 1 tablespoon?

Commercial coconut oil can have aflatoxin and that can cause a lot of problem.

Do you know if this an issue in the RBD oil as well as the virgin oil?

Similar thing happens with antibiotic use. In the beginning
endotoxin load increases from dead bacteria and
things settle down and later on total endotoxin load decreases.

Exactly - same with garlic etc.

 

[Mittir]

Didn't he say he added about 250 cals of coconut oil? that's more like 3 tsp or 1 tablespoon?

In Josh Rubin Interview on PUFA he said
"but I decided to experiment by adding 1/2 to 1 ounce of Coconut oil to my food, and the immediate thing that I noticed was that for about an hour and a half after eating a tablespoon or so of Coconut oil my heart was running at a higher rate, I was breathing harder and my skin was pinker. That went on for several days and after a couple of weeks I saw that I was losing weight quickly, even though I was eating more calories per day, and for about I guess 30 years I maintained the same weight but after 2 or 3 weeks I saw that I was heading to a lower plateau of weight and I stayed there ever since. Just occasionaly adding a tablespoon or so of Coconut oil helps activate my thyroid "

In Email exchange he mentioned
"Yes, it's best to lose it slowly. When I tried adding about a tablespoon of coconut oil once a day I lost about two pounds a week, for several weeks, without eating less."

So, it is between 1 to 2 tbs.(120 to 240 cal)

Do you know if this an issue in the RBD oil as well as the virgin oil?

RP mentioned that most studies are done with Refined
odorless coconut oil with good results. Based on that refined oil
can not have significant amount of toxin. He also mentioned
chemical extraction lowers toxin. In theory, RBD should be
allergen free and insignificant amount of aflatoxin.
I would feel more comfortable if companies tests for
aflatoxin before they sell their oils. FDA has been testing
imported copra for aflatoxin in 70's. That should minimise
the amount in end product.

I do not have trust in most health food brands.
I do not think they are always honest about their
practices. RBD i tried did not taste good and had
odd texture.

He mentioned that he got sick from virgin coconut oil.
He does fine with refined one. Unrefined coconut oil can
have allergens and gut irritants. A true virgin oil
should be Aflaoxin free but can have allergens.

 

[Maretch]

My method involves insane amount of work.
It is quite risky too. You can easily get cuts during grating.
There are many youtube videos on homemade coconut
oil, they use much easier method.
This video shows the method i use. The guy should have used
heavier knife to open the coconut and his grated coconut has
some brown part of the coconut shell . I only grate the white part of the meat.

Thank you very much I'll try and I'll tell you later if it was okay, hope that I'll do it right! :)

 

[Maretch]

If it is not an Aflatoxin problem then you can have problem from coconut oil's
antibiotic property. In short term coconut oil can increase endotoxin by
killing bacteria.

Is there a probability that I can have this too? even if i didn't experienced something like this before?