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Easy Ways To Lose Weight On Ray

Discussion in 'Weight' started by biggirlkisss, Dec 7, 2016.

  1. zztr

    zztr Member

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    Don't take this the wrong way, but I really doubt you truly are hungry all the time. You have a compulsive behavior that you need to think through and resolve somehow. When you think you're hungry and it's not meal time, try waiting an hour before eating. I bet usually you will find you're not experiencing hunger after waiting a bit.
     
  2. AJC

    AJC Member

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    Honestly, many--not all-- people are making this sound way, WAY more mysterious than it is. I think one of the biggest problems people have that they need to get over is their IDEAS of how they should be able to lose weight ie. "if I raise my metabolism enough/optimize my hormones enough/eliminate PUFA enough/take thyroid enough/drink 3 gallons of orange juice/go completely starch-free/go completely fat-free/ drink enough coffee/take estroban/take kuinone/ take DHT/etc. etc. etc....then the weight should just COME OFF with no effort/counting/will-power/desire.

    Ok--well as most of know from experience and defeat--this is not true.

    In fact--I'd say that the biggest difference between those who are truly lean (6-10% body fat for males with good muscular development) and those who are "trying" to be but aren't, is that those lean people don't waste their time with the above BS.

    Now, granted, many people WILL lose excess weight by following some of the above ideas. It is possible. For example, I used to weigh 230 pounds and I lost around 30 pounds over the course of a couple years by simply cutting out pop and energy drinks. I then lost more weight by eating more vegetables. It is possible. But I never dipped below probably 18% body fat by not either exercising or counting some calories.

    People seem to think that counting calories is the devil, that exerting any kind of will power is the devil (as an aside Dopamine can be thought of as the neurotransmitter that enables us to exert effort towards a goal we desire), that exercising in any way is the devil (again, keep in mind that a movement we genuinely enjoy doing will bring an immense joy into our lives and bodies and stimulate our desire to develop our health further)

    I say all this with immense confidence because of my own journey with Peating over the past 6 months or so.

    I began at a weight of approximately 180 pounds at around 15 % body fat. Fairly low muscle mass, having come from a diet where I was not eating adequate protein, and had lower calories (I was a smaller person.) I began Peating in a Very Low Fat fashion, roughly counting calories and macros but not in a restrictive fashion--I was just curious. I averaged around 3500-4000 calories a day with around 180-200 grams of protein. Within a little over a month my weight went up to approximately 200 pounds. However, 18 of these pounds was muscle. Another month went by and I was up to around 205-210 with a little bit more muscle and more fat. At this point, I decided I really wanted to lose some of that excess weight, as it was slowing me down for the physical activities I enjoyed. I researched what the people who are truly lean do (hint, hint--count their macros, create a diet plan, stick to it, reap the benefits) and I followed it. I altered their recommendations a little, substituting more carbs for fat (around 10% fat a day) and using only Peat-friendly foods, but I was EATING AT CALORIC DEFICIT and that was all there was to it. My weight is now around 190 pounds, and my body fat is probably around 12%. It's been a great success, and I'm going to continue doing it.

    Moral of the story: counting calories is not the devil, willpower is not the devil. Eat at caloric deficit, use Peat-friendly foods and supplements to keep stress hormones low while you are losing fat. Fat loss is really boring. It is boring. It is long and boring. But totally worth it.

    The "program" I used: The Definitive Guide to Effective Meal Planning
    I signed up for Cronometer (highly recommended).
    Also just look up some youtube videos by the guy in the above article--he has good down-to-earth material.

    A final couple of random suggestions: If liquids don't fill you up (they filled me up) eat cottage cheese. Also, I think one of the most important tools we have in this journey is the visualization of the outcome you wish to achieve. Finally, as far as "exercise" goes, just find something you really love doing. If you want to maximize fat loss you can always do the big compound lifts like deadlifts and squats, but if you lack the motivation for it you'll never do it. I just found an activity I truly love doing, and this is what motivates me to train and get lean. Finding an activity you love doing will organize your physical goals in a coherent and organic manner and stimulate a true internally-driven desire to achieve your goals rather than a lame society-driven pressure to "look good".
     
  3. zztr

    zztr Member

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    First of all, that guy is juiced to the gills. Secondly, three properly hard weight training sessions is a decent amount of exercise. The distinction between "cardio" and lifting is rather meaningless.
     
  4. keith

    keith Member

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    Before I get started, I want to note that I am not trying to criticize anyone here and not planning on getting into any lengthy arguments about how wrong I am, and how I don't understand the simple math of calories in/calories out. I also will note that I am far from being very successful weight loser, and that people are different, and I am not convinced that any specific set of advice will work for everyone. I have learned a few things that have helped me.

    I personally gained quite a bit of weight after changing my diet to a Ray Peat inspired diet. However, I was coming from a calorie restricted diet that made me feel awful, and created numerous health problems, including ultimately crashing my metabolism. After gaining about 70 pounds (I had lost 50 with calorie restriction, so gained back that plus 20), I have since lost about 20, without trying, and without any pain or sacrifice. So I guess I at least healed the metabolic damage done through calorie restriction.

    I think the body has a weight set point that it tries to maintain, which also seems to be the conclusion drawn by the folks that studied "biggest loser" contestants who lost weight, but then regained even more. 6 Years after The Biggest Loser, Metabolism Is Slower and Weight Is Back Up In my experience calorie restriction works great in the short term (my last attempt wasn't my first), but is counter productive in the long term. Your mileage may vary, but after trying almost everything over the years, I don't think weight has very much at all to do with self-control/will power or calorie counting over the long haul. Every time I lost a significant amount of weight through calorie restriction, I gained it back and then some, and
    I never completely just quit and binged on twinkies and doritos and mcdonalds, etc.

    I actually gave up trying to be thin after discovering RP and reading about the stress caused by not getting enough nutrition. I got so much more energy and positive well being from eating enough "peaty" foods, that I realized I would rather feel like this and be fat, than be thin and feel miserable. So I gave up all calorie restriction, regained all the weight I lost, plus some, and then, after a while of not trying (probably well over a year; I gave up paying attention), I just naturally started losing some weight. I believe I changed my "set point", although I can't specifically point to any one thing, and it definitely wasn't a quick process. What success I have had, I attribute to a combination of applying the ideas of Ray Peat with trying to learn to listen to my body. If I'm hungry I eat, and I eat as much as I want. I try to eat what I'm craving, while following RP principles as best I understand them, so while I try to combine some protein, fat, and carbs in the same meal, if I'm craving protein, I eat higher protein foods, if I'm craving fat, I eat higher fat foods, if I'm craving sugar, I eat sugar, if I crave starch, I'll eat some starch. I try to be fairly strict on restricting PUFA, and try to keep a good calcium/phosphate ratio, a good sugar/starch ratio, a good amino acid ratio, but if I'm craving a steak and rice, I eat it, and just try to get some caffeine and gelatin with it, if I can. If I'm craving brownies, I'll make some homemade ones with the best ingredients I can manage, like coconut oil or real butter instead of vegetable oil. I figure there must be something in the foods I crave that I need, and my body is telling me. There is so much we don't know about physiology, and our cravings are natures way of letting us know what we need, so why not listen? I never crave PUFAs, fortunately.

    I take the same approach to exercise now. If I feel like doing something, I do. If I don't, I don't. Don't force it.

    Anyway, over about a year or two, I've lost about twenty pounds. I'm still a good 70 pounds from where I probably should be, but I feel comparatively great and my weight is moving sustainably in the right direction. This isn't a quick solution, it may not help everyone, but I hope that even if it doesn't help anyone lose weight, it helps people understand that being overweight isn't all about lacking will power and being too lazy too keep calorie logs. Besides, being happy is way better than being thin anyway, so even if it were all about those things, I still say it isn't worth it.
     
  5. javacody

    javacody Member

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    You present excellent arguments. Unfortunately, you will not receive factual, logical replies to your concerns here.
     
  6. WestCoaster

    WestCoaster Member

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    This is basically how it works; there are numerous ways to lose weight, but there is only 1 real way to lose it and keep it off long term, and the key words being long term.

    Fat storage is all hormonal, it has very little to do with CICO (calories in calories out, but for the purpose of this post, I will now refer to this as CICO), as evidence of CICO working for only about 50% of the people in my observations. CICO is also not a long-term solution because people do not naturally want to restrict calories. Of the 50% of people who lose weight, 100% of them will gain it back at some point in time. There is a reason we have hunger signals and blood sugar triggers that mess with our mood when we require food. Not listening to these can be detrimental for many reasons (one of them being cortisol which is your fat storage hormone). People generally do not find solace with CICO because they cannot restrict calories until the day they die. There are so many external factors that will prevent this: hunger, blood sugar triggers, exercise, family (or family events), going out with friends, or any real external factors that will make you eat more than what you bargained for. It is safe to say if you are a CICO follower at this point in time, you will fail, and it will likely happen very soon (especially with the holidays upon us). The human body likes balance, so yo-yo'ing in weight with CICO is not what your body is after.

    If you are looking at specific weight loss, look at the people who constantly gain and lose weight for their jobs: Bodybuilders. Their shredding before a competition begins somewhere between 6-8 weeks out I believe. The way they start shredding is cutting out carbs. They gradually start at the beginning and it ramps up closer to the competition. At this point they start to go low fat as well and stick to high protein. Now this does work very well in the short-term, but key words being short-term. Not only is this not sustainable, but very dangerous as well. There have been cases of competitors fainting/dying on stage. There is a reason they day or 2 after competitions, these people eat whatever they want and gain up to 20lbs in 1-2 days; it's because the body want's balance, and a high protein, low-carb/low-fat is not balance.

    The reason most people gain weight on a Peat inspired diet is because the diet itself is not a Catabolic diet, it's an Anabolic diet. It's facilitating the constant release of insulin which is an Anabolic hormone. You are not going to lose weight easily with insulin constantly elevated, but there is a caveat to this, you can out-exercise what you're eating. You can out-exercise insulin's effects because exercise inhibits insulin, but the question is, do you really want to exercise all the time? Reading threads here it seems the common consensus is that exercise isn't the most desirable thing (or at least chronic exercise which I agree with). So if you're not going to chronically exercise, and resfuse to watch how much you're eating of Peat inspired foods (CICO), don't expect to lose weight.

    This brings me to what does work long-term for most people and possibly why it doesn't work for those who think they are doing it. I know this is going to fly in the face of what is preached around here, but it's a high-fat, moderate-protein, low-carb diet, but the real key word in there is moderate-protein. That is where people screw it up, especially those going paleo expecting to lose weight. People think simply going on a low-carb diet is sufficient but it couldn't be further from the truth, to go low-carb you have to understand why you are going low-carb in the first place. People think carbs are the demon without understanding why, because if they understood why, they'd know that high protein is also problem. Too much glucose in the blood causes too much of an insulin response which is why people go low carb and lose weight. The problem is though, most people who do this (myself included in the past, and probably many of you), inadvertently go high protein in the process. High protein in itself, causes too much glucose to circulate which in turn causes a large & chronic insulin response. Once you eliminate those factors, what you're left with is a high fat diet.

    Now keep in mind, a high fat diet does not have to be a high PUFA diet; the obvious things are eliminated like vegetable/seed oils and processed foods which is where you can find a lot of the PUFA. The foods that you do eat are naturally occurring fats found in red meat, fatty chicken and it's skin, eggs, avocados, coconut oil, olive oil, butter, sour cream, cheese etc.. Preferably it's all grass fed, but at the end of the day if you're looking at the ratio of the calories consumed, you should see that 70% of them should be coming from fat at minimum, 20-25% from protein, and the rest from carbs (which is basically green vegetables). Fruit taken in at a minimum just how nature intended it because fruit technically is not available all year round.

    Why is this a long-term solution if done properly (by properly I mean protein is actually kept moderate), is because it supplies the body with constant energy, is satiating, and provides all the nutrients your hormones could ever hope for. Eating say a high fat breakfast of eggs, ground beef (or sausage, bacon, or whatever fatty source you want), and an avocado is enough to easily fill you and carry our energy for the next 6-8 hours. Very little insulin response (no fat storage), no need to out-exercise anything; just enjoy the food and exercise if you have the inclination to. It basically removes the craving for junk food, sugar and the like, and your body operates full of energy for hours on end. Many people report reduced or eliminated inflammation including Fibromyalgia as well. The other reason it's sustainable is because going off course every so often (once or twice a week) for the vast majority of people doesn't cause any adverse effects but in fact stimulates even greater fat loss responses. So in effect you can basically eat whatever you want on those days.

    Why might this not work for people, and many people in turn start to feel like crap? Probably because you didn't do it properly and went too high protein. Then we seek out things to correct our metabolism when the simple answer is, give your hormones what they need, fat.
     
  7. Stryker

    Stryker Member

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    I've been using it for 18 months no negatives do far , I use fasoracetam in dmso to keep any tolerances at bay

    But your right the withdrawal symptoms are brutal
     
  8. zztr

    zztr Member

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    Personally, I find it somewhat easier to stay lean on a high dairy fat diet because of the saiety, but I find mental endurance higher on relatively high carb intake. I feel like the brain recognizes when it's consistently swimming in glucose and so fires up more readily to do hard work.
     
  9. tca300

    tca300 Member

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    3 brief heavy training sessions per week is hardly enough to make a caloric difference in regards to weight loss. Hes quite small in comparison to known steroid abusers, so I dont quite understand your "juiced to the gills" comment.
     
  10. jayegray

    jayegray Member

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    There are numerous bodybuilders who don't cut carbs but reduce fat from their diet. In fact from the people I know personally who are bodybuilders and one is a IFBB pro, they do not cut any carbohydrates at all, they simply reduce dietary fat and increase cardio.

    If anybody were to follow your diet above, they would be in ketosis, with massive amounts of free fatty acids. Which is the complete opposite to what Peat's work is all about.
     
  11. lisaferraro

    lisaferraro Member

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    @keith great share and seems such a wise voice of striking balance between physical, emotional, mental, and deeper inner ISness or state. It is these wise voices that make me come again and again to this platform. Thank you for being willing to speak up in such a thread where the majority appear to disagree with you.
     
  12. 3ball

    3ball Member

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    Thanks for your thoughts, but it just ain't so. I'm hungry when I'm not counting calories on Peat. I'm not hungry all the time on Paleo. I'm not hungry all the time except when I'm counting calories and trying to eat low fat.
     
  13. encerent

    encerent Member

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    Posting this in part to encourage/remind myself to do it too: take a relaxing walk for 1 hour each day. I haven't been doing this for a few weeks and notice I'm putting on a bit of fat slowly.
     
  14. eaj27

    eaj27 New Member

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    Hey everyone, I had to take exogenous steroids for several weeks for a medical condition and have gained 20 lbs. I'm small so its a lot for my frame especially. Its not seeming to go away easily and I feel like crap. Very lethargic. Its fat not muscle. Any suggestions on how to loose the weight from this kind of gain? I'm feeling pretty tired all the time and can't get my act together. Would sure appreciate any thoughts to help me dig out of this.
     
  15. Constatine

    Constatine Member

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    What steroid did you administer? It would be best to optimize your hormones considering the fat you gained was hormonally allocated.
     
  16. Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    I gained weight at first, but after a year of settling in, the gaining stopped. What I've found is that eating RP's way will keep me from feeling real hunger. I did have to change some of what I started with. For example, I was making Ray's ice cream. I did cut out the ice cream because it's a trigger food for me. Then, I had to start observing. I'd started eating more than I needed and using the excuse that I was seeking nutrients. I found it hard to cut back once I'd just let go with the amounts.

    I think it took me a year to shed 10 pounds. The time element was discouraging, but I was determined not to diet, but to continue eating healthy as possible and just reduce amounts slowly. The whole time, I felt like it wouldn't work. I was down to a few very stretchy clothes. I felt that since I was eating less, I should be smaller right away!
     
  17. lisaferraro

    lisaferraro Member

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    Interesting story. Thank you for sharing @Birdie!
     
  18. Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    I find that if I concentrate too hard, count calories, and try to eat very low fat, I get real hungry too!!
     
  19. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    Exceptional post. I might try this. Gained 25 pounds on peat. Trying to lose a bit. I'm too fat I think. Very difficult to lose and I don't want to calorie restrict. I used to feel hungry all the time but don't anymore.
     
  20. eaj27

    eaj27 New Member

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    They gave me high dose prednisone. I am wondering if I need to almost go a touch more extreme in the other direction hormonally to get this extra off now. I'm loaded up on carrot salad for estrogen but how does one effectively flush excess cortisol out of the system? (in addition to whatever else I need to do)
     
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