E2 Is Not The Problem

[Vegancrossfit]

Hair growth requires a youthful state I’d say. Trying to tweak around and reverse accelerated aging with non suppressive drugs won’t restore health that’s gone out of balance because of hormone ABC or lifestyle issue XYZ. Homeostasis wins eventually. I can only see full HPTA suppression with proper low androgen HRT being restorative.

...which is what transgenders undergo... or golden era bodybuilders

 

[Shman Frontal]

@boris Lead by example and prove it to us. Otherwise you are just looking to get in a fight. I know Selye's work, stress is inevitable. Obviously I am talking about excess (in the sense of Selye's GAS).

Obviously not, you said low Stress (what this mean). There is apro Word for it, because i know what are you try to say: Adaption.

@mrchibbs Wow you're really on a crusade. And yet you're not saying anything meaningful. My claims are "low-level"? What does that even mean?

Proving things wrong, or at least argue enough to not withstand anymore, is a crusade to you? okay.
Im pretty sure that a lot of people reading in this thread got very useful Information and will rethink whatever they think to know believe. Its meaningful, meaningfuller than everything said until now.

Is that not condescending to the extreme? You've dismissed every comment in this thread, and Ray's research out of hand.

i replied very well on their points.

@JKX
Men with hair loss often have extreme high progesterone because its needed to build cortisol?

Care to post that research paper? Care to define 'extreme high'?

Progesterone does lower aromatase... for example, below...and in direct opposition to that cortisol you suggest its being used to 'build'.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjANegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw0tl2cglT_T03EWp_HQv7MW

Yes, we require to consider blood and tissue concentrations of hormones at every level. Why wouldn't we???

Progesterone rises with Stress, so Cortisol does, Thats really nothing new... but hey, alomost forget where i am. Stress-induced increases in progesterone and cortisol in naturally cycling women Relationship between salivary cortisol and progesterone levels in humans - PubMed

Do you even read the papers before sending them ? Or do you just don't understand them?

Progesterone inhibits glucocorticoid-dependent aromatase induction in human adipose fibroblasts

Can you read this? experimental induced? only adipose fibroblast? Or can you read this fe : However, the inhibitory effect of progesterone requires its presence throughout the induction period. Kinetic studies in intact cells reveal a reduced number of aromatase active sites upon progesterone treatment, whereas progesterone at near-physiological concentration (100 nM) does not inhibit aromatase activity

This study is "nice to know" but has almost or no real life value.. Its hilarious. When its about fructose than this forum know very well to see problems like this in Studies, when its about progesterone or against estrogen than not.

@Andman Reads like a rather high estrogen person to me

Well, not only that every educated Biologist isnt near that smart as the members here, they can also see hormone through text! Its godlike!

@Broken man @Shman Frontal I cited book about low dose naltrexone because you will find sources of studies about estrogen being dangerous. If you would be Smart, you would ask about it. I hope you are not giving advice to real people......

Why you just dont adress the sources directly? Why you dont work for yourself? That's not my job to help to prove YOUR point. If there is a point at all since we are talking about an Opid Antagonist, which was very helpful for MS patient.

 

[Broken man]

@Shman Frontal dont know what is your goal but you can read this Increased estrogen levels, metabolism linked to obesity in prepubescent girls
And this article summarizes greatly what estrogen and aromatase do Aromatase inhibitors in men: effects and therapeutic options - the best thing from this article is that height corelate with lower aromatase/estrogen (higher androgens?) And now you can go to school And look how height did change through years, I have younger brother and I am taking him from his school, I have also older Brother, my older Brother was full grown man when ending Elementary school (for USA, Its like 15-16 years old), my younger brother is now ending Elementary school and is thinking And looking like small kid with age around 12 years. Its just totally clear that boys today have much more estrogen.
Last one Is this- Male sexual function can be maintained without aromatization: randomized placebo-controlled trial of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in healthy, older men for 24 months - PubMed the important thing Is the length of the study!!! And that no men discontinued so it means that you can be okay even with low levels of estrogen. So please somebody change the title!!!!

 

[Shman Frontal]

@Broken man Your text is broken. We already discuss everything before in this thread, DHT thing and the measurement of Östradiol in obese people. Do you even read the complete thread? And was has your personal experience to do with it? Me, my sister and my brother are all lean and severe taller than my parents? Obesity is multicausal, and using ONE thing to prove a point just hows that you are far away from understanding the complexity of biochemistry. There is no easy in this. you should accept it.

 

[JKX]

Relationship between salivary cortisol and progesterone levels in humans - PubMed

Progesterone in men is largely adrenal? WTF? No.

Heard of thyroid?

 

[Shman Frontal]

@JKX well, thats the Problem. Not educated people try to talk with educated ones. For me its like playing teacher here. Unpaid btw : D

 

[JKX]

Oh please oh great one...edjumicate us

 

[Broken man]

@Shman Frontal But you got me... We can do trial, if I will have luck, I will get testosterone gel so I will be lowering my estrogen while you will take contraceptive pills Okay? With photos and other things....?

 

[JKX]

Thyroid: Therapies, Confusion, and Fraud

I'll stick with Ray, thanks.

 

[Shman Frontal]

@JKX Oh please oh great one...edjumicate us

No, just visit a school for medicine or buy a study teach book.

@Broken man why should i take artificial Hormones? I correct my aromatase and got a lot better. Next step would be taking Boron to shift Estrogen Receptor and mimic steroids action on muscles.

 

[Shman Frontal]

Well, Ray is actually sayin the same.

But is really funny that you think that your Thyroid produces Progesteron. Do your balls also Produce PREG? What Kind of human Species are you btw? Oh sorry, im getting silly but that was a hard one, really.

 

[Broken man]

Lol

@Broken man Your text is broken. We already discuss everything before in this thread, DHT thing and the measurement of Östradiol in obese people. Do you even read the complete thread? And was has your personal experience to do with it? Me, my sister and my brother are all lean and severe taller than my parents? Obesity is multicausal, and using ONE thing to prove a point just hows that you are far away from understanding the complexity of biochemistry. There is no easy in this. you should accept it.

Lol this is all you wrote?

@JKX Oh please oh great one...edjumicate us

No, just visit a school for medicine or buy a study teach book.

@Broken man why should i take artificial Hormones? I correct my aromatase and got a lot better. Next step would be taking Boron to shift Estrogen Receptor and mimic steroids action on muscles.

Just for experiment so we will see what estrogen will do to your body it seems to me that your attitude to defend your opinion is also very weak, how can you do this job with this attitude?

 

[Broken man]

Lol

@Broken man Your text is broken. We already discuss everything before in this thread, DHT thing and the measurement of Östradiol in obese people. Do you even read the complete thread? And was has your personal experience to do with it? Me, my sister and my brother are all lean and severe taller than my parents? Obesity is multicausal, and using ONE thing to prove a point just hows that you are far away from understanding the complexity of biochemistry. There is no easy in this. you should accept it.

Lol this is all you wrote?

@JKX Oh please oh great one...edjumicate us

No, just visit a school for medicine or buy a study teach book.

@Broken man why should i take artificial Hormones? I correct my aromatase and got a lot better. Next step would be taking Boron to shift Estrogen Receptor and mimic steroids action on muscles.

Just for experiment so we will see what estrogen will do to your body it seems to me that your attitude to defend your opinion is also very weak, how can you do this job with this attitude?

 

[JKX]

Well, Ray is actually sayin the same.

But is really funny that you think that your Thyroid produces Progesteron. Do your balls also Produce PREG? What Kind of human Species are you btw? Oh sorry, im getting silly but that was a hard one, really.

Nope. He's really not.

And yes, preg can indeed be produced in the gonads.

 

[Broken man]

@boris Lead by example and prove it to us. Otherwise you are just looking to get in a fight. I know Selye's work, stress is inevitable. Obviously I am talking about excess (in the sense of Selye's GAS).

Obviously not, you said low Stress (what this mean). There is apro Word for it, because i know what are you try to say: Adaption.

@mrchibbs Wow you're really on a crusade. And yet you're not saying anything meaningful. My claims are "low-level"? What does that even mean?

Proving things wrong, or at least argue enough to not withstand anymore, is a crusade to you? okay.
Im pretty sure that a lot of people reading in this thread got very useful Information and will rethink whatever they think to know believe. Its meaningful, meaningfuller than everything said until now.

Is that not condescending to the extreme? You've dismissed every comment in this thread, and Ray's research out of hand.

i replied very well on their points.

@JKX
Men with hair loss often have extreme high progesterone because its needed to build cortisol?

Care to post that research paper? Care to define 'extreme high'?

Progesterone does lower aromatase... for example, below...and in direct opposition to that cortisol you suggest its being used to 'build'.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjANegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw0tl2cglT_T03EWp_HQv7MW

Yes, we require to consider blood and tissue concentrations of hormones at every level. Why wouldn't we???

Progesterone rises with Stress, so Cortisol does, Thats really nothing new... but hey, alomost forget where i am. Stress-induced increases in progesterone and cortisol in naturally cycling women Relationship between salivary cortisol and progesterone levels in humans - PubMed

Do you even read the papers before sending them ? Or do you just don't understand them?

Progesterone inhibits glucocorticoid-dependent aromatase induction in human adipose fibroblasts

Can you read this? experimental induced? only adipose fibroblast? Or can you read this fe : However, the inhibitory effect of progesterone requires its presence throughout the induction period. Kinetic studies in intact cells reveal a reduced number of aromatase active sites upon progesterone treatment, whereas progesterone at near-physiological concentration (100 nM) does not inhibit aromatase activity

This study is "nice to know" but has almost or no real life value.. Its hilarious. When its about fructose than this forum know very well to see problems like this in Studies, when its about progesterone or against estrogen than not.

@Andman Reads like a rather high estrogen person to me

Well, not only that every educated Biologist isnt near that smart as the members here, they can also see hormone through text! Its godlike!

@Broken man @Shman Frontal I cited book about low dose naltrexone because you will find sources of studies about estrogen being dangerous. If you would be Smart, you would ask about it. I hope you are not giving advice to real people......

Why you just dont adress the sources directly? Why you dont work for yourself? That's not my job to help to prove YOUR point. If there is a point at all since we are talking about an Opid Antagonist, which was very helpful for MS patient.

I dont have much time, this opiod antagonistdetoxify estrogen from body it seems

 

[boris]

@boris
Obviously not, you said low Stress (what this mean). There is apro Word for it, because i know what are you try to say: Adaption.

We are on the same page. What are you arguing about exactly?

This is what you said:
"But i see people eating a lot of PUFA, having estrogen, high NO and living their live. Some of them will maybe get sick, but they lived."

This is what I said and (and my interpretation of both our points):
"What you are describing as people eating what they want and feeling and looking great, are just people with low stress. Sooner or later the diet will catch up with them in the form of degenerative diseases like you said yourself.

When you work on not stressing out too much about diet hormones work and life, while still eating and supplementing healthily you will achieve the same and possibly live longer than them to enjoy it. Working on the right mindset is so often underestimated."
[added: Not having excess Stress, see Selye's GAS]




....
A lot of trolls here these recent months trying to get people into useless arguments and wasting their time.

 

[Shman Frontal]

@Borken Man i dont even Start to argue my friend :)

Yea, as is said before, pls read the whole thread. I think you havent unterstand my Position.

@JKX Thyroid intensify adrenal Hormones, even Broda Barnes explored this in his work. Being low thyroid mean mostly also being low in Cortisol, Adrenalin etc. Therefore People which are hypo will rarely get catabol, a main reason why the get fat. Im seeing it like Hans Selye, there is no "Stress Hormone", all Hormones are protective, its just how Adaption works.

 

[Broken man]

@Borken Man i dont even Start to argue my friend :)

Yea, as is said before, pls read the whole thread. I think you havent unterstand my Position.

@JKX Thyroid intensify adrenal Hormones, even Broda Barnes explored this in his work. Being low thyroid mean mostly also being low in Cortisol, Adrenalin etc. Therefore People which are hypo will rarely get catabol, a main reason why the get fat. Im seeing it like Hans Selye, there is no "Stress Hormone", all Hormones are protective, its just how Adaption works.

I dont have time for reading whole thread, the title is Wrong that is all I have to say, you are not scientist at all, just blubling about somethin.

 

[JKX]

I would dispute low thyroid = low cortisol. Thats just not true. Thyroid can increase sensitivity to adrenal hormones. It does not increase their production.

Dynamics of 24-hour endogenous cortisol secretion and clearance in primary hypothyroidism assessed before and after partial thyroid hormone replacement - PubMed

Short term stress hormone response I would agree is protective. But those hormones should not remain chronically elevated in response to stress.

Your take on the progesterone / cortisol relationship is incorrect IMO. The relationship should be thought of as a rope where one pulls the other in a direction based on the state of stress being experienced. When sufficient progesterone is being made, cortisol is not required.

 

[Shman Frontal]

@Broken man, if u have no time than waste my time.

@JKX Thyroid increase Adrenal reaction, which of course begs the risk for running longer time on a catabolic state, i dont ment production itself. Noradrenalin fe increases in hypo, but this can also cause due lower magnesium level.

Cortisol, just like all so called Stress hormones, are always needed. Otherwise we would be dead. Progesterone has its own effect, but still is a prohormone. Its absolutely logic that progesterone rises to feed cortisol. When i see people who take a lot of Omega3, and therefore block their conversion from Progesterone to Cortisol, they have really high progesterone but low cortisol, adrenalin, low dhea and testosteron. Estrogen is mostly unaffected.