Dry Skin Cause

[baccheion]

Not much except maybe small amount from eggs. I don't like fish and they were never really a part of my diet, even before pufa restriction. Tried some EPA/DHA supplement a couple months ago, though it was probably low dose. Maybe it's worth trying again now that I'm playing with pufa.
B6 in various b-complex I tried over the years, usually 5-10 mg, magnesium with P5P etc. I never really noticed positive long term effects from vitamin supplements tbh.


hah, I noticed that after taking a shower even the skin on my penis was dry and wrinkled, like it gets dehydrated very easily.

Add some DHA (at least 4:1 DHA:EPA) to see if it helps with skin. 500-1,000 mg. How much ALA and LA per day?

 

[mipp]

Add some DHA (at least 4:1 DHA:EPA) to see if it helps with skin. 500-1,000 mg. How much ALA and LA per day?

Ok, most DHA supplements have ratio closer to 1:1 or worse, I'll look into it.
currently about 10-12 g LA and 2-3g ALA on avarage

 

[baccheion]

Ok, most DHA supplements have ratio closer to 1:1 or worse, I'll look into it.
currently about 10-12 g LA and 2-3g ALA on avarage

What about when minimizing PUFA (ie, the amounts that caused a problem)? Doctor's Best DHA 500, Nature's Way Mega-DHA, Nordic Naturals, etc..

 

[mipp]

What about when minimizing PUFA (ie, the amounts that caused a problem)? Doctor's Best DHA 500, Nature's Way Mega-DHA, Nordic Naturals, etc..

At my most restrictive about 4-5g total, with negligible ALA (like 0.1g)

 

[baccheion]

At my most restrictive about 4-5g total, with negligible ALA (like 0.1g)

I'm saying do the low PUFA thing, adding B6 and DHA. Can even get below 2 grams with effort.

 

[Josh]

I'm saying do the low PUFA thing, adding B6 and DHA. Can even get below 2 grams with effort.

he said he’s tried b6, I’ve been eating salmon x2 a week for a months and it has not helped, that’s why I’m trying pufa now

 

[baccheion]

he said he’s tried b6, I’ve been eating salmon x2 a week for a months and it has not helped, that’s why I’m trying pufa now

Need more B6 than he mentioned. What's the average daily DHA from that amount of salmon?

 

[EIRE24]

Not much except maybe small amount from eggs. I don't like fish and they were never really a part of my diet, even before pufa restriction. Tried some EPA/DHA supplement a couple months ago, though it was probably low dose. Maybe it's worth trying again now that I'm playing with pufa.
B6 in various b-complex I tried over the years, usually 5-10 mg, magnesium with P5P etc. I never really noticed positive long term effects from vitamin supplements tbh.


hah, I noticed that after taking a shower even the skin on my penis was dry and wrinkled, like it gets dehydrated very easily.

Did you ever try and apply PUFA to the skin as in sunflower oil with vitamin E or similar oils to see if it helped the dryness?

 

[Josh]

Did you ever try and apply PUFA to the skin as in sunflower oil with vitamin E or similar oils to see if it helped the dryness?

never tried man

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Maybe there are individual differences in lipid metabolism (desaturase enzymes?) and some people need certain emount of PUFA in their diet. I don't know, just feel like experimenting because I wasn't really eating much plant fat for many years, and since finding Peat three years ago I cut the reamaining PUFA to minimum. I prepare almost all my food so it was pretty strict avoidance. The only exceptions were once or twice a year when I visited my parents for holidays where I traditionally eat some stuff with a lot of canola mayonnaise. I noticed that my dry feet improved after those visits. Had some strange ideas as to why that could be, but didn't connect it with the fats until now. There were also some anecdotes from other people, which made me think about trying vegetable oils.

Before pufa restriction I had some occasional skin problems like seb derm and dandruff on my scalp but I never had eczema or dry skin on my body. This was new. Increasing SFAs didn't help and possibly made dryness worse. So my current plan is reduced SFAs, ditch coconut oil completely, eat some mono fats with a little plant pufa (watching for omega 3/6 ratio) see what happens. So far so good.

As for other things I tried: I had some inital success with vitamin A (retinyl acetate). It didn't really heal anything but there was some improvement to my skin tone. It stopped working after a while so I upped the dose. That didn't help either and I started getting mouth ulcers, which I thought may have been from the supplement, and that was it.
Vit B2 seemed to improve my eczema for 1-2 weeks, then I had a mojor flare up and dropped it eventually.
Not much success with anything else. Nothing reduced overall dryness.



I try to avoid heating it. So when I make a tomato sauce, I let it cool down a bit then add the oil.
I eat some mayo almost daily too.

The B2 and B6 are likely working for some time by actually increasing the agency of the PUFAs and downstream-products.PUFAs are real,and Peat is one of a few affirming that they are a big Hoax.Free Ranging Ruminants dont eat grain,and still have Linoleic Acid and Alpha Linolenic Acid and their downstream products in their tissues.

Linoleic Acid is essential for some type of Ceramides,and cant be replaced orderly.Lipid-Research is extremely delicate and complex,and the use-cases and necessities documented for PUFAs will only further increase.

PUFA-avoidance for reduction of Prostaglandins also doesnt seem to work,because the amounts needed for Inflammatory signalling are so very low,that it just isnt feasible.Peat wants to live forever and this is his big wager.I wish him all the best,but my skin cant approve this message lol.

My lipid-stack is Butterfat for SAT and MONO,10g Sunflowerseed-Oil,10g Flaxseed-Oil,Arachidonic Acid from lean meat muscle phospholipids,3g fishoil for compensation of consumption of grain-fed Animalproduce,and Vitamin E as alpha in freeform.

Put my Acne-like in remission,and an dry-skin exzema-lesion on the back of my hand,this started after 3 weeks of intake.

Image search for "Essential Fatty Acid Deficiency" and look if the depictions are similar in nature to your issue.

 

[dreamcatcher]

I've posted about this before but it's really an issue for me and i think it's why i have a general dry skin issue.
Sebaceous filaments, basically my sebum is completely solidified, all along the jaw line where hair grows, all my cheeks, t-zone mainly, the worst part is the cheek areas to the side of my nose under the eyes, i have big visible pores in that area anyway and these Sebaceous filaments just stick out like little rice grains.. If their picked out they will fill back up again in a few hours.

By having this solidified sebum i'm obviously not able to have normal 'runny' sebum that is evenly distributed throughout the skin.I get them on my scalp as well.

I really only started getting this and its got worse since i found ray peat, cut out ALL pufas for the last two-three years and have gone really high on the saturated fat, as i need the calories and makes me satiated and i feel better etc, probably eat over 120g of fat a day mostly from butter/coconut oil. In the last 3 months i have started eating salmon weekly along with olive oil, still i don't think it makes a difference as my saturated fat intake is so high.

I have thought to myself, if this was the case then most peaters would be complaining about it? Thing is, i don't think most peaters here are eating as much saturated fat as me and i found ray peat quite young at the age of 18, my diets NEVER been super high in pufas for them to store, so my guess is that my pufa stores dried up pretty quickly and my sebum has been made of the fat i eat mostly.

I know you guys will say that it's not possible for this as our body temperature is too warm for sebum to solidify but its the only thing i can think of and the only thing that makes sense.

Before finding out about Ray peat i used to have normal oily skin and my eczema wasnt any where near as bad as it is now, i guess the normal sebum just kept my skin naturally moisturised.

Is it worth me reducing saturated fat??

I would just add in whole PUFA sources into my diet and also use cold pressed PUFA oils on my skin.
I started following a Ray Peat inspired diet in 2014 and during the last 6 years my hair got thinner, dry and I lost 70-80% of my eyebrows, including hair pigment. My skin got very dry as well, specially the end of my fingertips and around my nails ( I got to a point when I constantly hid my fingers out of embarrassment because of the thick, dry skin); my feet and legs. I also had raised bumps on the back of my arms which never healed.
I switched cooking oils in 2010 and started to only use saturated fats but by 2014 I excluded all whole food PUFA sources like nuts and seeds, apart from the small amounts which are naturally found in some animal products.
I would never believe that I was EFA deficient since coming across the work of Ray Peat and was extremely scared of them.
The mainstream would say that these symptoms are caused by EFA deficiency but I didn't believe it.
I tried tallow, coconut oil to moisturise my skin but didn't experience any improvement.
I also made sure to include vitamin A rich foods in my diet, have plenty of sunshine for vitamin D and time to time supplemented with vitamin A, E, D and K2.
A couple of months ago I decided to massage my skin with cold pressed sesame seed/sunflower oils and started to eat a lot of cashews and peanut butter. I found it difficult to have enough calories on the starch free diet, specially during the coronavirus when a lot of food prices went up. Then I started to notice that my eyebrows got much denser and darker and the patchy space filled in!! and the hard, dry skin started to disappear from my fingertips.
I can't believe how simple it seems to get better. I spent a lot of money since the last 8 years on different treatments and supplements to try to improve my hair and skin condition. I also kept researching every day in hope for finding an answer..
Not long ago I came across a blog of a banned Ray Peat forum member where he shared his ideas on EFAs.
If interested:
The Last Breath - In the end, you will suffocate to death. The work of Edward J Edmonds.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Yes i'm the same mate, my avoidance was SUPER strict like i i've probably only eat out a handful of times in the last few years..

And i'm not joking thats my exact experience, before pufa restriction i got occasional skin problems like the dandruff and maybe seb derm but yeah no overall skin dryness of the body.. like before pufa restriction i could have boiling hot showers, come out and feel normal.. wow if i have a warm shower now or even a cold shower my whole body is tight! It's obviously lacking that natural oil production.

I'm gonna try ramping on the sunflower seeds anyway

You should actually go for high-quality Oils,to avoid all toxins in seeds.Ruminants dont eat seeds,they get their Oils by very high Food-intake of very low fat leaves and grasses.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Some Images to compare the conditions to possible efad

Spoiler: Skin conditions

 

[boris]

I can't believe what I am reading here . (This is no critique, I think the discussion should always keep going).

@cinderella Maybe it was a zinc deficiency in your case? Peanuts and Cashews are high zinc sources. Zinc deficiency can cause dry brittle skin.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I can't believe what I am reading here . (This is no critique, I think the discussion should always keep going).

@cinderella Maybe it was a zinc deficiency in your case? Peanuts and Cashews are high zinc sources. Zinc deficiency can cause dry brittle skin.

Haha,me too,PUFA was the last avenue,i exhausted all other ways,all supplementations,i just accepted my Acne-like disorder as Fate and idiosyncratic Illness.What we have to understand in regards to Peats reasoning is that he has an alternative View on Fundamentals of cellular Research like conditions of membranes and their structural and substantial Make-Up,with more Focus on the Ling-type idea of structured water.

 

[baccheion]

The B2 and B6 are likely working for some time by actually increasing the agency of the PUFAs and downstream-products.PUFAs are real,and Peat is one of a few affirming that they are a big Hoax.Free Ranging Ruminants dont eat grain,and still have Linoleic Acid and Alpha Linolenic Acid and their downstream products in their tissues.

Linoleic Acid is essential for some type of Ceramides,and cant be replaced orderly.Lipid-Research is extremely delicate and complex,and the use-cases and necessities documented for PUFAs will only further increase.

PUFA-avoidance for reduction of Prostaglandins also doesnt seem to work,because the amounts needed for Inflammatory signalling are so very low,that it just isnt feasible.Peat wants to live forever and this is his big wager.I wish him all the best,but my skin cant approve this message lol.

My lipid-stack is Butterfat for SAT and MONO,10g Sunflowerseed-Oil,10g Flaxseed-Oil,Arachidonic Acid from lean meat muscle phospholipids,3g fishoil for compensation of consumption of grain-fed Animalproduce,and Vitamin E as alpha in freeform.

Put my Acne-like in remission,and an dry-skin exzema-lesion on the back of my hand,this started after 3 weeks of intake.

Image search for "Essential Fatty Acid Deficiency" and look if the depictions are similar in nature to your issue.

So you're an egg man? Skim milk (and/or truly pastured organic chicken liver), oranges/blackberries/fruits/potatoes, and truly pastured organic raw egg yolks. Keep small intestines sterile (eg, iodine protocol) to avoid cholesterol-induced inflammation, TMA, etc.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

So you're an egg man? Skim milk (and/or truly pastured organic chicken liver), oranges/blackberries/fruits, and truly pastured organic raw egg yolks. Keep small intestines sterile (eg, iodine protocol) to avoid cholesterol-induced inflammation, TMA, etc.

My Diet now is more of a Bodybuilder-type clean eating style.Low Fat Pork,Gelatine,Butter,Potato,ripe Fruit,and Supplements as surrogate for Liver,and Calcium Carbonate for Bone.Furthermore,Seed Oils simulating higher Bodyfat of Free Ranging Animals.I still share Peats sentiment of the unstable and undesirable Nature of PUFA,but i see it now akin to Iron,they have to be dealt with.

 

[Jing]

@Josh The only thing that helps my dry skin on my face is evening primrose oil.. combined with fish oil helps even more .

 

[baccheion]

My Diet now is more of a Bodybuilder-type clean eating style.Low Fat Pork,Gelatine,Butter,Potato,ripe Fruit,and Supplements as surrogate for Liver,and now the Seed Oils simulating higher Bodyfat of Free Ranging Animals.I still share Peats sentiment of the unstable and undesirable Nature of PUFA,but i see it now akin to Iron,it has to be dealt with.

I'm spelling out the use of raw egg yolks as the fat source. With the combo mentioned, all macros are nutrient dense.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I'm spelling out the use of raw egg yolks as the fat source. With the combo mentioned, all macros are nutrient dense.

Yeah,eggs are fine,we dont have thorough cleaning of them in Germany,so i would advise german members to atleast boil them softly.But eggs are great,i second that.