Drinking Skim Milk Can Contribute To Having Higher-than-desirable Estrogen Levels

Cirion

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Imo you'd need to run tests on different foods for at least a week and see how they affect you over a weeks basis.

Already done my man. I even have 28 day averaged plots at this point. You are indeed right that things can fluctuate, but one can still notice clear and obvious trends upward and downwards.

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BigChad

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Already done my man. I even have 28 day averaged plots at this point. You are indeed right that things can fluctuate, but one can still notice clear and obvious trends upward and downwards.

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what is your diet like, what foods do you use. how do you manage to get enough protein in
 
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The following isn't meant to be an insult, just a genuine attempt to figure things out.

With that in mind... do you have 98.4-98.6F waking temp every day first off? And I see you have to take T3 also. Again not meant to bash your approach, if you feel it's correct then by all means. If you do fully recover (as defined by 98.4-98.6F temp each and every morning) via milk, then I admit I'll be more interested.

I don't take T3 and I can get 98.4-98.6F waking temps consistently by avoiding certain things, milk being one of them. But if I make ANY gaffes on food, I can't get those temperatures. Diet has to be picture perfect. Excessive milk and other tryptophan/cysteine heavy foods can drop my temperature by as much as 1.0F (or more).

Note: When I say 98.4-98.6F I mean oral measurement. The equivalent in armpit measurement is 97.8-98.2F due to oral measurements running about 0.5F higher.

I get it. I think milk and liquids in general burden the metabolism.
 

Cirion

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I get it. I think milk and liquids in general burden the metabolism.

This is where I get confused too (re: liquids). We have people like @Runenight201 who are drinking more plain water than ever and claiming higher states of health by doing so. Is it because he is metabolically healthy (at least compared to me)? Or is it true that one reason water is retained because we aren't drinking enough? I speak for myself at least when I say I drink way less water than I used to before Peat, but have never had more water bloat in my life either.

There have been studies on water and dehydration showing that just 1-2% dehydration (will have to find the study) tanked testosterone by a large % (something like 25-33% or more). So what gives? How does one reconcile this with peat?

Let's keep in mind that water/urine is the way the body gets rid of easily half of all toxins in the body (all the water soluble ones). Maybe @Runenight201 is on the right track after all.
 

Cirion

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what is your diet like, what foods do you use. how do you manage to get enough protein in

The sources of protein that results in optimal temperatures for me seems to be mostly rice, white potatoes, and gelatin. Then I also have generous fruit/juices/syrups etc to get plenty of carbs. I can get up to 100 gram protein a day without meat or milk.
 

BigChad

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The sources of protein that results in optimal temperatures for me seems to be mostly rice, white potatoes, and gelatin. Then I also have generous fruit/juices/syrups etc to get plenty of carbs. I can get up to 100 gram protein a day without meat or milk.

rice protein is supposedly the hardest to digest, even more than whey, casein, and meat? there's enzyme products meant for whey and other powders, i think even the stronger enzyme products said they would not work on rice protein
 

Cirion

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rice protein is supposedly the hardest to digest, even more than whey, casein, and meat? there's enzyme products meant for whey and other powders, i think even the stronger enzyme products said they would not work on rice protein

I think it can be overdone for sure, no arguments there. And I definitely would not recommend rice in the absence of sugar. I've done that before and it doesn't end well. But it's good to add some satiation to an otherwise sugar-heavy diet. I do prefer potatoes over rice. And peat has said potato protein is even better than egg protein. And of course gelatin shouldn't need an introduction.
 

aniciete

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I agree with @Travis on this one, Ray Peat's promotion of dairy products like milk and cheese seems ill-considered at best, while also contradicting to so many other things he speaks about. His arguments for it's consumption appear convincing on the surface level but upon a little digging one realises there are a vast amount of factors unconsidered in his position. Milk is very high in mammalian estrogen, which is essentially identical to our own estrogen (contrasting to phytoestrogens or plant estrogens, which are around 1000th of the strength of mammalian estrogen). Milk is also very high in tryptophan and methionine, high in IGF-1, high in casomorphins and thats just for starters.

There is vast amounts of research linking it significantly to a variety of cancer's and diseases. To list a few, breast cancer (eg. Consumption of Cow's Milk and Possible Risk of Breast Cancer), Colorectal cancer (eg. Childhood dairy intake and adult cancer risk: 65-y follow-up of the Boyd Orr cohort. - PubMed - NCBI), Parkinson's disease (eg. Intake of dairy foods and risk of Parkinson disease. - PubMed - NCBI ; Dairy foods intake and risk of Parkinson's disease: a dose-response meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies. - PubMed - NCBI), prostate and testicular cancer (e.g. Milk consumption is a risk factor for prostate cancer: meta-analysis of case-control studies - PubMed The experience of Japan as a clue to the etiology of testicular and prostatic cancers. - PubMed - NCBI ; Milk intake in early life and risk of advanced prostate cancer. - PubMed - NCBI).. And that is only scraping the surface of the extensively damming research that has been conducted on milk consumption.

I tried the dairy train for a good few years upon discovering Ray Peat, however it proved detrimental to not only my general health and wellbeing, but my thyroid function, temps and hormone levels. Upon cutting milk out a few years back, I feel a million times better, sleeping better, more energy, temps are up and thyroid is strong. I have always struggled with Ray's rationale for his hard line promotion of dairy and found @Travis to be a breathe of fresh air when he started honing in on it in Estrogen In Milk and throughout "The Travis Corner" thread.
How’s it going? Are you still off of dairy?
 

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