Dr. McDougall: Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice

rei

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You need much better evidence to make such claims. These guys Intensive Dietary Management (IDM Program) have cured hundreds of patients using fasting. Here is their study: Therapeutic use of intermittent fasting for people with type 2 diabetes as an alternative to insulin and it is orders of magnitude more convincing than the one you linked.

I believe sugar+white rice can cure a slim diabetic but if you are overweight with visceral fat then fasting (or even low carb) is much more effective since it effectively removes visceral fat and increases muscle mass. Both are very important to being able to utilize carbs effectively. Visceral fat is associated with insulin resistance, and increased glycogen stores in larger muscles allow the body to process the carbs using less insulin, leading to less insulin resistance.
 
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TeaRex14

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Rare voice of reason

Studies cited

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673649907977

Can't find the second study
Walt Kempner was able to cure some very serious diseases with the sugar and rice diet, I'm very interested in the guy's work. That diet can rapidly deplete PUFA stores and possibly even create mead acid because it's definitely EFA deficient. Long term there can be some issues, it's low salt and low protein. You might could replicate the same approach but make it better by including skim milk, fat free dairy, gelatin, salt, and potatoes. You would still probably need a few supplements if you continued to do it for long term.
 

RWilly

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I think RP has referred to this study a few times too.
 

Kartoffel

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I think it makes perfect sense. I believe that diabetes is an infection, where endotoxins get absorbed into the bloodstream via chylomicrons when saturated fat is eaten. Take out the saturated fat, and you take out one of the pathways endotoxins enter the bloodstream.

Is Diabetes an Infection? A New Perspective on the Cause of Weight Gain and Type 2 Diabetes

Denise Minger wrote an excellent article on low fat diets:
In Defense of Low Fat: A Call for Some Evolution of Thought (Part 1)

Actually it doesn't make any sense, at all. Saturated fat protects from endotoxin, and its' antibacterial properties reduce the amount of endotoxin in the gut very drastically. PUFA cause endotoxemia, SFA protects you from it. Th most saturated fat of all (coconut) completely abolishes any reaction to endotoxin. What McDougal and others say about fat "paralyzing" insulin and other such nonsense is purely simplistic and out of context. Fat (at least MUFA and SFA) will decrease insulin sensitivity, but that is a normal response to protect cells from getting overloaded with energy substrates. When you eat the same amount of only CHO (as opposed to a mixed meal with fat), it makes sense to increase insulin sensitivity, as you need to metabolize a lot of glucose. If the decrease in insulin sensitivity from fat was pathological, then all babies, Tokelauans, Massai, Mongolians, etc would be diabetics.

Effect of dietary linoleate content on the metabolic response of rats to Escherichia coli endotoxin. - PubMed - NCBI
 

TeaRex14

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I think it makes perfect sense. I believe that diabetes is an infection, where endotoxins get absorbed into the bloodstream via chylomicrons when saturated fat is eaten. Take out the saturated fat, and you take out one of the pathways endotoxins enter the bloodstream.

Is Diabetes an Infection? A New Perspective on the Cause of Weight Gain and Type 2 Diabetes

Denise Minger wrote an excellent article on low fat diets:
In Defense of Low Fat: A Call for Some Evolution of Thought (Part 1)
It has less to do with avoiding saturated fat and more to do with lowering serum free fatty acids, the two aren't exactly linear. OP's video is by a biased YT channel featuring McDougall. McDougall is sort of riding on the coattails of Walt Kempner, the actual creator of the sugar and rice approach.
 
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I think McDougall is right. High carb low fat diets will cure diabetes type 2. I don't think it has to be rice and sugar, but high carb low fat is what does it. I think due to the Randle effect. And this keeps free fatty acids very low. Free fatty acids are I think what causes diabetes.
 

Kartoffel

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I think McDougall is right. High carb low fat diets will cure diabetes type 2. I don't think it has to be rice and sugar, but high carb low fat is what does it. I think due to the Randle effect. And this keeps free fatty acids very low. Free fatty acids are I think what causes diabetes.

Saturated fat doesn't cause diabetes, and even a fairly high intake of SFA won't impair carbohydrate metabolism as only PUFA inhibit the central enzymes involved in CHO metabolism (PDH, etc.). Again, look at babies - they get as many calories from fat as they get from carbs, and diabetes doesn't seem to be rampant among infants.

Distinctive roles of unsaturated and saturated fatty acids in hyperlipidemic pancreatitis

AIM: To investigate how the saturated and unsaturated fatty acid composition influences the susceptibility of developing acute pancreatitis.

METHODS: Primary pancreatic acinar cells were treated with low and high concentrations of different saturated and unsaturated fatty acids, and changes in the cytosolic Ca2+ signal and the expression of protein kinase C (PKC) were measured after treatment.

RESULTS: Unsaturated fatty acids at high concentrations, including oleic acid, linoleic acid, palmitoleic acid, docosahexaenoic acid, and arachidonic acid, induced a persistent rise in cytosolic Ca2+ concentrations in acinar cells. Unsaturated fatty acids at low concentrations and saturated fatty acids, including palmitic acid, stearic acid, and triglycerides, at low and high concentrations were unable to induce a rise in Ca2+ concentrations in acinar cells. Unsaturated fatty acids at high concentrations but not saturated fatty acids induced intra-acinar cell trypsin activation and cell damage and increased PKC expression.

CONCLUSION: At sufficiently high concentrations, unsaturated fatty acids were able to induce acinar cells injury and promote the development of pancreatitis. Unsaturated fatty acids may play a distinctive role in the pathogenesis of pancreatitis through the activation of PKC family members.
 
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Saturated fat doesn't cause diabetes, and even a fairly high intake of SFA won't impair carbohydrate metabolism as only PUFA inhibit the central enzymes involved in CHO metabolism (PDH, etc.). Again, look at babies - they get as many calories from fat as they get from carbs, and diabetes doesn't seem to be rampant among infants.

Distinctive roles of unsaturated and saturated fatty acids in hyperlipidemic pancreatitis

AIM: To investigate how the saturated and unsaturated fatty acid composition influences the susceptibility of developing acute pancreatitis.

METHODS: Primary pancreatic acinar cells were treated with low and high concentrations of different saturated and unsaturated fatty acids, and changes in the cytosolic Ca2+ signal and the expression of protein kinase C (PKC) were measured after treatment.

RESULTS: Unsaturated fatty acids at high concentrations, including oleic acid, linoleic acid, palmitoleic acid, docosahexaenoic acid, and arachidonic acid, induced a persistent rise in cytosolic Ca2+ concentrations in acinar cells. Unsaturated fatty acids at low concentrations and saturated fatty acids, including palmitic acid, stearic acid, and triglycerides, at low and high concentrations were unable to induce a rise in Ca2+ concentrations in acinar cells. Unsaturated fatty acids at high concentrations but not saturated fatty acids induced intra-acinar cell trypsin activation and cell damage and increased PKC expression.

CONCLUSION: At sufficiently high concentrations, unsaturated fatty acids were able to induce acinar cells injury and promote the development of pancreatitis. Unsaturated fatty acids may play a distinctive role in the pathogenesis of pancreatitis through the activation of PKC family members.

For diabetic men and women, high carb and very low fat is the way to go. It keeps the free fatty acids down and the sugar allows the islets to regenerate.

Fat seems to prevent this process for working. Low fat is essential to help the cells begin getting energy from oxidative phosphorylation. Niacinamide and aspirin can help a bit I think.
 

Kartoffel

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Low fat is essential to help the cells begin getting energy from oxidative phosphorylation.

Evidence? It looks like an extremely high carb diet (especially if it emphasizes starch over sucrose) leads to reduced thermogenesis and very noticable catabolism. When you add extreme sodium restriction as in the famous rice diet, you make things worse. All the people I have seen eat this way, are cold, irritable, aggressive wrecks. I felt cold and miserable the whole time when I tried a very high carb, low-fat, relatively low-protein diet.

Saturated free fatty acids suchs as palmitate increase glucose oxidation.

Free fatty acid receptor 1 (FFAR1/GPR40) signaling affects insulin secretion by enhancing mitochondrial respiration during palmitate exposure. - PubMed - NCBI
 

TeaRex14

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The biggest factors are the individual's metabolic rate, age, and body composition. I'm of the personal opinion low(er) fat is probably better, but a much greater emphasis on PUFA and MUFA reduction rather than SFA. A high fat diet doesn't necessarily have to mean chronically elevated free fatty acids. Someone with low stress hormones, good thyroid function, and lots of lean mass could eat a high fat (saturated), high carb, diet without getting diabetic. High carb, low fat diets don't always mean low free fatty acids either, glucose conversion to pyruvate is good, glucose conversion to lactate is bad. Lactate is generally a byproduct of stress metabolism and elevated free fatty acids.
 
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The biggest factors are the individual's metabolic rate, age, and body composition. I'm of the personal opinion low(er) fat is probably better, but a much greater emphasis on PUFA and MUFA reduction rather than SFA. A high fat diet doesn't necessarily have to mean chronically elevated free fatty acids. Someone with low stress hormones, good thyroid function, and lots of lean mass could eat a high fat (saturated), high carb, diet without getting diabetic. High carb, low fat diets don't always mean low free fatty acids either, glucose conversion to pyruvate is good, glucose conversion to lactate is bad. Lactate is generally a byproduct of stress metabolism and elevated free fatty acids.

I'm starting to think that low fat in general is more important then stressing over which fat I am getting, I think they all are pretty bad in excess and that the small benefits of sfa for hormones are easily achieved with an egg or two each day.

This is just one I read recently, there are other older studies showing the same thing. Olive, soybean and palm oils intake have a similar acute detrimental effect over the endothelial function in healthy young subjects. - PubMed - NCBI

I think blood health is critical and that all fats basically contribute equally to hyper coagulation / lowering availability of oxygen and nutrients to the cells.
 

TeaRex14

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I'm starting to think that low fat in general is more important then stressing over which fat I am getting, I think they all are pretty bad in excess and that the small benefits of sfa for hormones are easily achieved with an egg or two each day.

This is just one I read recently, there are other older studies showing the same thing. Olive, soybean and palm oils intake have a similar acute detrimental effect over the endothelial function in healthy young subjects. - PubMed - NCBI

I think blood health is critical and that all fats basically contribute equally to hyper coagulation / lowering availability of oxygen and nutrients to the cells.
Yeah I agree to an extent. My total fat intake is around 15%, not that much. I eat around 2,700 calories a day so that approx 45 grams of total fat I eat everyday. Mostly from coconut oil, low fat dairy, cacao, and whatever is naturally present in the foods I eat. My PUFA intake is probably roughly around 1%, right on target with Dr. William Lands's recommendation.
 

Kartoffel

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I'm starting to think that low fat in general is more important then stressing over which fat I am getting, I think they all are pretty bad in excess and that the small benefits of sfa for hormones are easily achieved with an egg or two each day.

This is just one I read recently, there are other older studies showing the same thing. Olive, soybean and palm oils intake have a similar acute detrimental effect over the endothelial function in healthy young subjects. - PubMed - NCBI

I think blood health is critical and that all fats basically contribute equally to hyper coagulation / lowering availability of oxygen and nutrients to the cells.

Do you ever post anything but meaningless one time feeding studies? Eating 60ml of oil decreases vasodilation and increases triglycerides - wow what a revelation.
 
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Yeah I agree to an extent. My total fat intake is around 15%, not that much. I eat around 2,700 calories a day so that approx 45 grams of total fat I eat everyday. Mostly from coconut oil, low fat dairy, cacao, and whatever is naturally present in the foods I eat. My PUFA intake is probably roughly around 1%, right on target with Dr. William Lands's recommendation.

I just decided today to move to 15%, I have been around 20-25% basically for no reason other than that I tend to like how food tastes with more fat, but I would rather feel my best than have a slightly tastier meal and feel so-so. I am sure I will adapt. I made the mistake of following a low carb, intermittent fasting diet, for about 5 years, and I am still paying for it. During that time I must have put on 20 pounds, some muscle but mainly fat.
 

TeaRex14

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I just decided today to move to 15%, I have been around 20-25% basically for no reason other than that I tend to like how food tastes with more fat, but I would rather feel my best than have a slightly tastier meal and feel so-so. I am sure I will adapt. I made the mistake of following a low carb, intermittent fasting diet, for about 5 years, and I am still paying for it. During that time I must have put on 20 pounds, some muscle but mainly fat.
Yeah I couldn't do low carb either, I developed pretty serious hyperventilation from low carb. I can only assume the decease in CO2 production was the cause. I think low carb also pushes a lot of inaccurate dogma about sugar being addictive. I never really craved sugar on low carb, not once. Eating all the steak, butter, and bacon I wanted was fine by me. I thought going low(er) fat was much harder than low carb, I craved the fatty foods at first, before I properly acclimated to the new diet. Even to this very day, I'll take steak and butter over sugar any day for taste preference. For me, fat seems a lot more addictive than sugar.
 
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Yeah I couldn't do low carb either, I developed pretty serious hyperventilation from low carb. I can only assume the decease in CO2 production was the cause. I think low carb also pushes a lot of inaccurate dogma about sugar being addictive. I never really craved sugar on low carb, not once. Eating all the steak, butter, and bacon I wanted was fine by me. I thought going low(er) fat was much harder than low carb, I craved the fatty foods at first, before I properly acclimated to the new diet. Even to this very day, I'll take steak and butter over sugar any day for taste preference. For me, fat seems a lot more addictive than sugar.

Yea I think a big part is the mouth-feel of oil, I need to start getting more in to condiments and sauces to replace the butter I would usually melt on something to add that extra appeal.
 

RWilly

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Actually it doesn't make any sense, at all. Saturated fat protects from endotoxin, and its' antibacterial properties reduce the amount of endotoxin in the gut very drastically.

Actually, it does not reduce the amount of endotoxin. I'm not arguing saturated fat from a Ray Peat standpoint. This is different. If you have a lot of gram negative bacteria in your gut, and when those bacteria die, they release a lot of endotoxins, which are absorbed into the bloodstream during fat absorption via chylomicrons ... and saturated fat is the only type of fat that will do that. Studies show an increase of endotoxins in the blood after eating fats such as cream and coconut oil. And yes, coconut oil is antibacterial, but killing bacteria still releases a lot of endotoxins, which get into the blood stream because coconut oil is a saturated fat. So for those people with high gram negative bacterial populations, this will result in endotexemia. Diabetes is a form of metabolic endotoxemia, as are many diseases.
 
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