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Dr John McDougall- Pro Starch, Anti-meat/dairy, Swears It's Anti-cancer

Discussion in 'Discussing Dietary Models' started by Nikki, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. Nikki

    Nikki Member

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    If this post is offensive to any Peatarians, please forgive. I just wonder if anyone has checked this guy's data:
     
  2. KennethKaniff

    KennethKaniff Member

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    I'm sure his diet is vastly preferable to the Standard American Diet
     
  3. OP
    Nikki

    Nikki Member

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    Starch and fiber promotion aside. I really like what he reveals about crooked cardiology here:
     
  4. KennethKaniff

    KennethKaniff Member

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    I know this is ad hominen, but while McDougall looks pretty good for 71 I think Ray looks even better. Sugar vs starch I guess.
     
  5. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    Just try out the diet if you're curious and track energy, mood, temps etc.... It certainly is better than the SAD as someone else has stated, but as I have found, starch just cannot provide the necessary energy for optimal functioning. Important component of a diet? I believe so, but the way the starch solution is touted in my experience leads to sub-optimal functioning.

    Most populations have had starch based diets due to poverty and not choice, and given a choice, most humans prefer to include meat and dairy in the diet.
     
  6. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    I like him in that he advocates high carb low fat to fix type 2 diabetes. I think he is mistaken on most things but this is one where he is right. And it takes courage to advocate this
     
  7. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    Part of it boils down to quality of foods. Most meat and dairy today is both from CAFO operations (grain fed, antiobiotic/hormone filled, pasteurized/homogenized milk, etc...) and in this context, I would agree that meat and dairy are both bad actually. My experience from trying to eat CAFO meat / dairy is not good, and neither agree with me. Unfortunately, 90-95% of meat/dairy is CAFO, and that's how both get a bad name. Also, most people have forgotten about eating organ meat, which is VERY nutritious compared to the muscle meats (muscle meats really don't provide much for you except protein and maybe a few trace nutrients)

    I also think CAFO meat/dairy is probably cancer promoting.

    What we should really be doing is fighting against the bad quality of food we see today rather than demonizing a specific food/food group. I realize this more and more every day. I now believe even PUFA is not that bad as long as it comes from fully natural food sources, but I do still try to avoid it personally. Just look up "food babe" - she looks fantastic for a woman in her 40s and she does not avoid PUFAs, she just avoids foods that are not natural/organic with no additives.
     
  8. Kyle Bigman

    Kyle Bigman Member

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    how do you get enough protein if you don't eat either meat or dairy though? If I'm not eating more meat I tend to eat more dairy to compensate for protein losses.
     
  9. olive

    olive Member

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    Protein requirements are overstated in my experience. I’m eating 50-60g a day and gaining muscle. Carbohydrates spare protein requirements. So on a high carb, low fat diet - one can eat less protein. I find it cheaper and more enjoyable to eat this way. My digestion is better and so is my energy.
     
  10. Captain_Coconut

    Captain_Coconut Member

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    This has been my experience too. Around .75 grams per kg body weight seems right for me. Or simply eating protein when I feel like it seems to be plenty. Too much protein like too much fat in one meal leaves me feeling tired. Looking at how lean and strong chimpanzees are, and how small their protein intake is really convinced me that human needs cannot be that high.
     
  11. TeaRex14

    TeaRex14 Member

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    My take on McDougall is he's pretty smart when it comes to the debate about free fatty acids and their harm. The people that follow his program are getting the benefits of a lowfat diet which is supporting glucose metabolism. Of course, there's definitely more then a few areas where I don't agree with him. For starters he's promoting super low protein, around 10% maybe less. Most these high carb vegan plans strongly believe in the 80/10/10 macro approach. 10% protein will cause accelerated aging and muscle atrophy. As in the case with most these vegan promoters, whether it be McDougall, Greger, Esselstyn, Fuhrman, Campbell, etc. they all have inferior muscular development. Secondly, he falsely attributes saturated fat for chronic degenerative diseases such as heart disease. We know this is physiologically debunked because when we blame saturated fat we're also, indirectly, blaming carbohydrate as well. When eating a lowfat diet we convert pyruvate to acetyl-CoA, and then somewhere down the line, I don't know the exact step by step process, we end up with saturated fatty acids. So his "whole foods plant based diet" has saturated fat in it, from his carbohydrates. Of course this is something he would never address to his constituents, simply because they have a general narrative they're trying to sell about saturated fat. Or maybe he's just ignorant of this process that takes place in the body, after all this isn't a guy that was trained about metabolism, cellular physiology, biochemistry, etc. Lastly, the way these people (not just McDougall, but others too) counter studies that disagree with them is rather unintelligible. These people have a very bad habit of just claiming the wrong industry funded a particular study, and therefore we shouldn't trust it. Industry plays a part, but when we start blaming industry alone instead of examining the methodology of the study under question it just becomes a cop-out. Besides, the power of the meat and dairy industry has been greatly exaggerated by this base. The soy and grain industries are much bigger and have more lobbying. I saw a Washington Post article back in 2017 that said massive amounts of dairy are being thrown out because dairy consumption has been steadily declining over the years. So if anything, he's inflating a industry that's losing power, not gaining it.
     
  12. Gone Peating

    Gone Peating Member

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    You have a great physique if that's you in the pic. What sources are you getting your protein from? And how many grams of sugar/starch do you eat per day? Also do you know what your testosterone levels are
     
  13. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    I am interested in @olive 's daily intake too. I am assuming you weight train as well, what kind of programming do you follow for that (mainly interested in how intense it is / frequency)?

    How do you handle hunger/satiety with low protein and I'm assuming fairly low fat too? Not sure it's sustainable for someone who is fatter and has appetite problems. Ray peat himself has issues going too low on protein, and he doesn't even lift. Not saying I don't believe you just wondering how you manage it?
     
  14. damngoodcoffee

    damngoodcoffee Member

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    He's wrong about a lot, but he's still one of many inspirational people on my health journey, and I'll always be grateful for him. Truth is scattered in Babylon.
    Less of the whole grain & bean stuff (or at least very well prepared), and more calories for sure and I think you'll be good to go. I think many of these vegan doctors have the skeleton look going on cause they eat like 1500 calories a day.
     
  15. damngoodcoffee

    damngoodcoffee Member

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    I'm mostly vegan at the moment and I feel much more warm and "anabolic" then ever. I always felt cold eating the basic "Peat-style" protein sources. I don't even think about protein anymore, but I get 50-80g a day. My digestion, appetite, libido, mental clarity are the best they've ever been. I love eating this way. Lots of potatoes, pasta, rice, juice.
     
  16. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    I'm beginning to experiment with a high carb but low starch approach. I've noticed that most starches are problematic, and even the safest one, white rice, causes congestion and mucus formation when I overconsume it. I've also noticed that starch causes the blood sugar to take a wild rollarcoaster ride, which leads to the insatiable hunger and never feeling satisfied. Not too mention the inevitable crash after a heavy starch meal, and my observational experience has lead me to conclude that starch is a rather poor food to form the base of the diet with.

    The problem is that fruit is also a poor food to form the base of the diet. It quickly leads to tooth sensitivity and frequent urination, which is no fun...

    So where does that leave me?

    Vegetables....In a new turn of events, I have begun making large amounts of steamed vegetable medley.

    1) I used to hate how vegetables tasted, all of them. They were absolutely atrocious to me, HOWEVER, something about steamed vegetables COMPLETELY changes the taste profile, so that even nasty sulphorous broccoli and kale are incredibly tasty, and I actually look forward to eating them with some salt.

    2) Steamed carrots and squashes provide calories where green veggies just wont create satiation.

    3) The kale and broccoli is adding some dense micronutrients, which is clearing up my cognition significantly.

    3) I am able to handle much more coffee now with the vegetables (I make a skim milk latte with maple syrup)

    4) Fish and eggs provide protein and dense calories when I feel like it is needed.

    My bloat is quickly going away, and I imagine all the anti-estrognic effects of the vegetables plus the lack of inflammation from starch is contributing to me quickly slimming down. My mother has commented on how much slimmer I look, and I've only done this for 2 days. This has lead me to conclude that a large portion of my chubby appearance is due to the water retention and bloating effect of starches. Not too mention I feel in general much lighter, and all I have to do is eat consume fruit/sugar and I instantly have a large amount of energy to go on runs and workouts. When consuming large starch meals I'd constantly feel heavy and depressed, and I'd have to force myself to workout.

    I'll occasionally eat a little bit of white rice with some mushrooms, as I think it's negative effects are limited when not consumed in large amounts and with a large amount of vegetables.

    Some people may be able to thrive on starches, however, a metabolically compromised individual with ***t digestion will not succeed on a high starch diet.

    tl;dr Try steamed veggies with salt. Complete game changer, they taste awesome, may just change your life.
     
  17. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    So basically you are doing a transition type diet just as Ehret advises because going straight to fruit will move things too fast and cause discomfort(teeth ouchies due to lymph and possibly sulfur on the move) due to the yuge amount of obstructions that need to clear. :ss2
     
  18. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    Lol maybe... I don't think I'll give up fish or eggs, as they digest well and give me confidence, well-being, and strength, but I could see myself landing somewhere in the middle =P

    I will say though that beef makes me smell awful, to the point where I received a complaint at my new job...so I'm off the land animals for now! Eggs, dairy, and fish don't seem to cause the same smelly odor lol
     
  19. mmartian

    mmartian Member

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  20. damngoodcoffee

    damngoodcoffee Member

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    My blood sugar feels crazy steady while eating loads and loads of starch. Skipping a meal feels easier than ever and I feel great and satisfied after a meal. Different strokes for different folks. :-0
     
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