Dosing Strategies: Allithiamine, Benfotiamine, And B1

Discussion in 'B1' started by messtafarian, May 9, 2015.

  1. messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    I've been reading testimonials and studies about thiamine and its relationship to diabetes. Some studies really like benfotiamine for neuropathy and I can attest that after supplementing with about 600mgs a day of benfo I felt some of my symptoms abate nearly instantly, like the next day.

    I also had good success clearing up what was starting to feel like IBS with MASSIVE doses of plain thiamine at about 1500 mgs a day.

    Then there is allithiamine, which I've been taking at a dose of about 300 mgs a day in divided doses.

    So my goals are to try to stave off what's seeming like an incipient case of diabetes, but also keep working on nerve regeneration and neuropathic symptoms. In the literature, people really like benfotiamine for this but I've read some negative things about it as well.

    Taking really high dose thiamine was really helpful but I am having a hard time keeping my potassium levels up when I take a lot of it.

    Is allithiamine a good strategy for my goals and and what doses? Would it be better or more helpful to stay with the high dose thiamin regimen and for how long?

    Is benfotiamine safe or is allithiamine a better choice? Could I take all three?
     
  2. aguilaroja

    aguilaroja Member

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    All the questions are excellent. My recollection based on reading research last autumn is that there has been very little work comparing health condition responses for different forms of thiamine.

    As you have probably read, there are more studies about thiamine (including Constantini's intriguing reports), some about benfotiamine, and less about allithiamine & sulbuthiamine.

    There may be rationale for taking several forms, for different pathways of and rates of absorption. I have experimented with various combinations. While I have felt benefits with each singly and with paired combinations, I am uncertain about best forms and combinations. It is smaller bulk volume of supplementing to use benfotiamine, so that is convenient.

    Since regular thiamine is cheap and off patent, there is little financial incentive to do studies. It may be that the cheapest, non-proprietary thing works well. Individual report and projection from research, and informed small group experience may be what is available in the near term.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24399744

    J Clin Pharmacol. 2014 Jun;54(6):688-95. doi: 10.1002/jcph.261. Epub 2014 Jan 22.
    Pharmacokinetic study of benfotiamine and the bioavailability assessment compared to thiamine hydrochloride.
    Xie F1, Cheng Z, Li S, Liu X, Guo X, Yu P, Gu Z.

    "Compared to thiamine hydrochloride, the bioavailability of thiamine in plasma and TDP in erythrocyte after oral administration of benfotiamine were 1147.3 ± 490.3% and 195.8 ± 33.8%, respectively. The absorption rate and extent of benfotiamine systemic availability of thiamine were significantly increased indicating higher bioavailability of thiamine from oral dose of benfotiamine compared to oral dose of thiamine hydrochloride."

    viewtopic.php?f=36&t=4687
     
  3. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    Thanks. I've read studies that say that benfotiamine does not reach the brain, even though I certainly felt it helped in other areas of the body.

    I tried sulbutiamine specifically because it supposedly reached the brain and was uncomfortably somnolent taking it. I don't know what that meant except maybe that I need more b1.

    Taking regular thiamine was effective in my opinion but as I said, it seemed to just suck all the potassium out of me. I am not sure if I should keep taking that and just keep chugging potassium or if it would work well enough to stay with allithiamine, which did not have that effect.
     
  4. Philomath

    Philomath Member

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    Messtafarian-
    Three quick questions:
    1. How do you know when potassium is low?
    2. Did you keep chugging potassium - what form?
    3. Which form of thiamine did you stay with?
    Thanks!
     
  5. tomisonbottom

    tomisonbottom Member

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    Same questions, and also curious how long you took 1500mg for?
     
  6. ddjd

    ddjd Member

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    What bad things?
     
  7. ddjd

    ddjd Member

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    Why does b1 deplete potassium?
     
  8. magnesiumania

    magnesiumania Member

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    Allithiamine has done a lot of good to me. Including amelioration of anxiety that occur sometimes. Is taking more than 300mg safe with this form?
     
  9. Markus

    Markus Member

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    I would say 300 mg is the upper limit, but there are always exceptions.
     
  10. magnesiumania

    magnesiumania Member

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    Ok what is the dangers of taking more? My friend takes 2grams of allithiamine. She told me it detoxify iron stuck in tissues etc and it may ebd up in the liver.
     
  11. Tristan Loscha

    Tristan Loscha Member

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    @messtafarian plain Thiamine HCL is best researched,and has the most refined synthesisprocesses presumably,livestock usage ensures that.Is Potassiumdepletion diagnosed,or based on signs and symptoms?Either way,if you go ahead,I would prefer the HCL.Drastic reduction of need for B1 can be reached by ketogenic dieting.
     
  12. shine

    shine Member

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    I think that's the reason why some people feel better on a ketogenic diet. Because they are very deficient in thiamine.
     
  13. Tristan Loscha

    Tristan Loscha Member

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    very true.
     
  14. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Think so too.
     
  15. orewashin

    orewashin Member

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    Did anyone who tried B1 experience less fatigue after exercise? I read that it can reduce lactate and I wonder if it can help CFS to some extent.
     
  16. Michael Mohn

    Michael Mohn Member

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    You haven't taken thiamine unless you inject it. IV or subcutaneous. You will see the light :)
     
  17. Tristan Loscha

    Tristan Loscha Member

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    Injection has risks involved with glasscontamination,i would avoid it for routine-administration rather strongly.There are Filter-needles out there,but they are imperfect and only catch the ones above 5µM,which would cause actual blockage of fine capillaries.We talk about hundreds of glass-shards per vial.1500mg/d of Thiamine-Hcl oral is equal to 400mg/wk.Seemingly lossy,but Thiamine is cheap and very well tolerated.
     
  18. Michael Mohn

    Michael Mohn Member

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    Oral absorption of Thiamine is very low as uptake depends on enzymes TTP1 and TTP2. These enzymes are less expressed in a lot of individuals. 50mg of ups thiamine dissolved in water injected with an insulin syringe made of plastic is amazing.
     
  19. orewashin

    orewashin Member

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    What about anal administration of B1?
     
  20. Michael Mohn

    Michael Mohn Member

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    No, ttp1 regulates thiamine uptake into the blood, ttp2 into the cell. Injection is the way... and it's call a suppository.

    P.S. Correction: Thiamine Transport Proteins aren't enzyms.
     
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