"Don't Mix Red Meat And Vitamin C"?

dudinator

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2019
Messages
23
I was searching through pubmed and couldn't find any answers to this one.

Excess iron is supposed to be bad for us due to metabolic factors as well as increasing microbial load. However, I've never found a study that compared the two effects with each other. After all, if many metabolic perturbations in the body occur downstream of dysbiosis and resulting endotoxin, wouldn't increased iron absorption from concurrent Vitamin C be a good thing? Wouldn't it be preferable that the body regulate iron itself, instead of allowing it to freely pass on to bacteria downstream of the GI?

I dunno. This could be simpleton thinking, but at a gut level steak and Vitamin C rich pineapple juice together never makes me feel bad, even for several days in a row. In fact, they make me feel better than most foods period. I've Celtic heritage too, and donating blood in the past has made me feel fantastic. The first time I did it, it significantly and noticeably improved my glucose tolerance. This was all before I ate much steak or pineapple juice.

Vitamin C is an endotoxin antagonist/reducer(?), maybe this fits in with a more holistic picture of the Vitamin C/iron dynamic. In other words, poorly absorbed iron is bad, well absorbed iron can be good or bad based on the situation. Fortified cereals have always made me feel spacey, bloated, and gassy before (I don't touch for years), although this could be because of the folic acid... Whereas somewhat equivalent (where is cheap, unfortified cereal?) forms of ingredients didn't cause such disturbances when I was in good health.

I'd really like someone to show me some direct evidence in refutation if possible, because the whole counter intuitive notion IMO bothers me.
 

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,131
The common idea that "Vitamin C increases Iron Absorption" mostly stems from single meal challenge studies. It mainly affects non-heme iron. This, in itself, implies that it wouldn't affect absorption rate of the heme iron from steak. In fact, this is usually done from radiolabeled isotopes of supplemental iron, so it may not even apply to iron in plants like spinach.

I have researched the iron issue quite a bit (you can see from many of my old posts), and got interested in Vitamin C late last year. I did find one longer term study that tested the effect of taking Vitamin C with meals over an extended period of time.

chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/http://www.bloodjournal.org/content/bloodjournal/64/3/721.full.pdf?sso-checked=true

As you can see from the study, ferritin levels sometimes went up, sometimes down, and sometimes held about steady (that seemed most common). Although none of the subjects were classified as having hemochromatosis or high iron, you can see that ferritin dropped dramatically in 3 of the individuals with the highest starting ferritin levels. So, it would appear that the warning of Vitamin C increasing body iron stores (over time) are vastly overblown. The results weren't consistent in any way, based on the table, so regular monitoring of iron levels is still a good idea. After seeing this study, I never hesitate to take vitamin C (even a large amount) with any meal.

By the way, the mechanism through which C enhances iron absorption is through binding with it, similar to how IP6 and EDTA work. In fact, there was an iron/EDTA compound in the works at one time to increase absorption of supplemental iron. While iron fortified foods are best avoided, I would actually think it's safer to take some sort of Vitamin C at the same time, if eating them. IP6 could be an option, as well.

Also, I don't know if you saw this study that showed that orange juice can stop the endotoxin response from common fast food meals. These meals have both PUFA oils and iron fortified bread.

Orange juice neutralizes the proinflammatory effect of a high-fat, high-carbohydrate meal and prevents endotoxin increase and Toll-like receptor ex... - PubMed - NCBI

I attached the study and the table, in case the link doesn't work.
 

Attachments

  • 721.full.pdf
    928.6 KB · Views: 9
  • Ferritin Table.png
    Ferritin Table.png
    15.5 KB · Views: 15
Last edited:
OP
D

dudinator

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2019
Messages
23
The common idea that "Vitamin C increases Iron Absorption" mostly stems from single meal challenge studies. It mainly affects non-heme iron. This, in itself, implies that it wouldn't affect absorption rate of the heme iron from steak. In fact, this is usually done from radiolabeled isotopes of supplemental iron, so it may not even apply to iron in plants like spinach.

I have researched the iron issue quite a bit (you can see from many of my old posts), and got interested in Vitamin C late last year. I did find one longer term study that tested the effect of taking Vitamin C with meals over an extended period of time.

chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/http://www.bloodjournal.org/content/bloodjournal/64/3/721.full.pdf?sso-checked=true

As you can see from the study, ferritin levels sometimes went up, sometimes down, and sometimes held about steady (that seemed most common). Although none of the subjects were classified as having hemochromatosis or high iron, you can see that ferritin dropped dramatically in 3 of the individuals with the highest starting ferritin levels. So, it would appear that the warning of Vitamin C increasing body iron stores (over time) are vastly overblown. The results weren't consistent in any way, based on the table, so regular monitoring of iron levels is still a good idea. After seeing this study, I never hesitate to take vitamin C (even a large amount) with any meal.

By the way, the mechanism through which C enhances iron absorption is through binding with it, similar to how IP6 and EDTA work. In fact, there was an iron/EDTA compound in the works at one time to increase absorption of supplemental iron. While iron fortified foods are best avoided, I would actually think it's safer to take some sort of Vitamin C at the same time, if eating them. IP6 could be an option, as well.

Also, I don't know if you saw this study that showed that orange juice can stop the endotoxin response from common fast food meals. These meals have both PUFA oils and iron fortified bread.

Orange juice neutralizes the proinflammatory effect of a high-fat, high-carbohydrate meal and prevents endotoxin increase and Toll-like receptor ex... - PubMed - NCBI

I attached the study and the table, in case the link doesn't work.
Awesome man. Everything I needed. I never bought the notion in the first place, but it's always nice for one's intuition to be validated.

Unfortunately in my state of unhealth, OJ doesn't agree with me to the extent pineapple juice does.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom