Don't feel full without starches

[oxidation_is_normal]

Constipated your whole life? That sounds like something worthy to focus on fixing...

 

[sweetpeat]

So do you think starches can raise the metabolism?

I think I have low metabolism. My pulse rate is around 60. I checked my doctor's office reports going back 10 years. It was always around 60. My temp is normal though. Again, my guess is stress hormones are compensating.

I think food in general raises the metabolism, especially carbs. There’s a recent thread about things that raise the metabolism you may want to look at, if you haven’t yet. Certainly there are plenty of carb in ice cream and chocolate, but it sounds like maybe the salt is what’s helping you. Salt can be calming as well as thermogenic. Many people with a low metabolism have trouble holding onto minerals like sodium and magnesium.

A pulse of 60 does seem low. Have you taken your temps when you wake up and maybe an hour after breakfast? I think those are the times Peat recommends to check. The chronic constipation also suggests a slow metabolism.

 

[Wilfrid]

Honestly, how much have you tried eating? You may be very adapted to starches... They're not really as bad as people make them out to be. Some people do very well on them, but I would still cut out the gluten-grains just because of the chance of issues with them. I mostly do potatoes and rice. Eating a lot of veggies can help too - get a stir fry with carrots, tomatoes, some bell peppers, and your beef and spices... Shouldn't be too empty, eh?

Agreed. :)
( However, I do better on refined wheat. But, you are right, and like RP recommend, it's propably safer to stay away from it for those struggling with a compromised metabolism though.)

Diet and the evolution of human amylase gene copy number variation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2377015/

 

[StrongMom]

So do you think starches can raise the metabolism?

I think I have low metabolism. My pulse rate is around 60. I checked my doctor's office reports going back 10 years. It was always around 60. My temp is normal though. Again, my guess is stress hormones are compensating.

I think food in general raises the metabolism, especially carbs. There’s a recent thread about things that raise the metabolism you may want to look at, if you haven’t yet. Certainly there are plenty of carb in ice cream and chocolate, but it sounds like maybe the salt is what’s helping you. Salt can be calming as well as thermogenic. Many people with a low metabolism have trouble holding onto minerals like sodium and magnesium.

A pulse of 60 does seem low. Have you taken your temps when you wake up and maybe an hour after breakfast? I think those are the times Peat recommends to check. The chronic constipation also suggests a slow metabolism.

My wake-up temp has been around 97.8-98.3 and most of the time that is the high of the day. Although I have not checked just after the breakfast, when I take my temp various times of the day, it usually comes down a bit lower.

Given a low pulse and significant sleep issues, I thought that stress hormones must be at play.

 

[StrongMom]

Constipated your whole life? That sounds like something worthy to focus on fixing...

Yes I know! For years, I desperately looked for answers. Nothing the mainstream medicine suggests seems to work. Magnesium helps a bit, but not a lot though. I have been taking magnesium supplements for a while as it helps with sleep and at the margin with constipation. Sometimes, but I do not see a clear pattern, fat does help.

I remember years back one day I ate a lot of raw coconut and drank a few lattes and then I had a very good bowel movement. I think in many ways it makes sense: coconut oil and coffee I guess. Nowadays even though I try to eat coconut and drink latte (only in the morning though) that does not seem to work it used to.

 

[sweetpeat]

I thought that stress hormones must be at play.

They most likely are. When you have a low metabolism (maybe you were born that way?), the body uses stress hormones to compensate. Conversely, when you are under stress (physical or mental), the body down-regulates your metabolism. I don’t know if it matters which came first (the low metabolism or the stress) – but the solution is probably the same: doing things that raise your metabolism. It could be that eliminating starch will help this; you won‘t know until you try. But you don’t want to be trading one problem for another, if you can help it. Have you tried adding in more salt when you cut back on starches?

 

[sweetpeat]

Also, is starch your only suspect? In other words, have you checked your diet for deficiencies, done any lab work that would suggest health issues, have any other symptoms than what you’ve already mentioned (low pulse, lowish temps, chronic constipation, stress)?

 

[StrongMom]

Ice cream and chocolate often have no salt. Salt can often lower adrenaline and make sleep easier. Bread and cheese usually have quite a bit of salt. You could try cheese and fruit without the bread if you wanted to try again.
But if you feel better with starches, it may not benefit you to stop eating them.

Last night, I had a similar situation: hard time falling into sleep just after eating some ice cream. Then, I had a big chunk of cheese and were able to sleep. Maybe really salt is an issue.

 

[StrongMom]

Also, is starch your only suspect? In other words, have you checked your diet for deficiencies, done any lab work that would suggest health issues, have any other symptoms than what you’ve already mentioned (low pulse, lowish temps, chronic constipation, stress)?

Yes, I have more symptoms, The reason I focused on starches was the others were in general easy for me to adjust. I started deliberately avoiding PUFA 4 months ago. Before that I was not consuming vegetable oils unless I eat outside but unfortunately I was eating a lot of nuts and taking fish oil supplements. I stopped that about 9 months ago.

 

[StrongMom]

Honestly, how much have you tried eating? You may be very adapted to starches... They're not really as bad as people make them out to be. Some people do very well on them, but I would still cut out the gluten-grains just because of the chance of issues with them. I mostly do potatoes and rice. Eating a lot of veggies can help too - get a stir fry with carrots, tomatoes, some bell peppers, and your beef and spices... Shouldn't be too empty, eh?

Agreed. :)
( However, I do better on refined wheat. But, you are right, and like RP recommend, it's propably safer to stay away from it for those struggling with a compromised metabolism though.)

Diet and the evolution of human amylase gene copy number variation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2377015/

That is quite an interesting study and makes a lot of sense. I guess that supports the argument some people make that everyone should follow a diet similar to their ancestors had.

Is amylase the only enzyme needed for starch digestion? So, if you have that enzyme, I suppose that you are less likely to have digestion issues related to starches, right?

But does that change the fact that they cause an insulin spike and stress response? Maybe I am missing something but if you do not digest them well, aren't they less likely to spike your blood glucose level?

What am I missing here?

 

[jyb]

Constipated your whole life? That sounds like something worthy to focus on fixing...

Yes I know! For years, I desperately looked for answers. Nothing the mainstream medicine suggests seems to work. Magnesium helps a bit, but not a lot though. I have been taking magnesium supplements for a while as it helps with sleep and at the margin with constipation. Sometimes, but I do not see a clear pattern, fat does help.

I remember years back one day I ate a lot of raw coconut and drank a few lattes and then I had a very good bowel movement. I think in many ways it makes sense: coconut oil and coffee I guess. Nowadays even though I try to eat coconut and drink latte (only in the morning though) that does not seem to work it used to.

Caffeine powerfully stimulate bowel movement. So if you were taking several a day (which is pretty common for many on this forum), it was probably helping.

Magnesium carbonate is a laxative supplement. Cascara can be seen as a safe laxative (the extent of the laxative effect is dose dependent), Ray wrote an entire article about it describing its healthy hormone like effect. Some forum members have used cascara for years without obvious signs of dependence building up. Maybe cascara would be the safer choice (both feature in Ray's articles or interviews) for someone needing to supplement long term.

 

[tara]

Cascara can be seen as a safe laxative (the extent of the laxative effect is dose dependent), Ray wrote an entire article about it describing its healthy hormone like effect. Some forum members have used cascara for years without obvious signs of dependence building up. Maybe cascara would be the safer choice (both feature in Ray's articles or interviews) for someone needing to supplement long term.

:1

 

[StrongMom]

Also, is starch your only suspect? In other words, have you checked your diet for deficiencies, done any lab work that would suggest health issues, have any other symptoms than what you’ve already mentioned (low pulse, lowish temps, chronic constipation, stress)?

As for the symptoms, I was diagnosed with PCOS when I was a teenager. After years of infertility (ans also miscarriages), I was rediagnosed with PCOS about 5 years ago. So I assume I have an estrogen issue.

A few years of infertility treatments probably made things worse. After a few failed IVFs, I was able to get pregnant with twins. At 32 weeks, I went into a premature labor. This should not be that surprising for someone with a lot of hormone issues. Now that I know Ray Peat's work and have two prematurely born boys, I feel really guilty that my boys had to be exposed to a lot of stress.

 

[sweetpeat]

Well, goodness! No wonder you’re stressed!
Twins must really keep you on your toes. But what a lot of fun they must be, too, I’ll bet. But from one mom to another, pleeeease don’t dwell on poor choices you made due to lack of information. We’ve all been there. That’s why a lot of us are here. You’re on a better path now. Learn from the past, but keep moving forward.

After you get things situated with your diet, if you’re still having issues, you might want to check out progest-e and/or thyroid support. There are several ladies on here who have dealt with pcos. Doing a search of the forum would probably turn up a lot of info for you to sift through for your next course of action if diet alone isn’t enough.

The cascara sagrada that someone mentioned above has worked well for me for constipation. I’ve only taken it a couple of months, but so far so good.

 

[StrongMom]

Thank you SweetPeat. I am glad I found Ray Peat and you guys. I appreciate the support; it keeps me up.

The question in my mind is if the constipation is the symptom. I am leaning towards maybe a thyroid issue??? My latest TSH is 2 and my doctor is not willing to do anything more than that.

I do not have an experience with progest-e but what I know is the synthetic progesterone "progestin" does not do anything for me. Besides, from my treatment days I remember really well that when I had the progesterone shots I slept really well. :)

 

[sweetpeat]

Yeah, the estrogen and thyroid stuff are all interrelated. Too much estrogen will wreak a lot of havoc, slowing down your thyroid function and clogging up your liver, among other things. And when you’re constipated, the estrogen and toxins aren’t getting eliminated as well as they should. Hmmm… you may also want to check out the threads on liver health as well. Getting estrogen levels down and tuning up your liver (if needed) may be enough to improve your thyroid function. And a lot of the things you need for that can be bought over the counter – vitamin E and K, coffee, etc. I was already on thyroid supplements when I discovered Peat, so I didn’t have a chance to try the other things first. Thyroid supplementing can sometimes be tricky, but others might say start with that first. Maybe someone with more experience will chime in here…

 

[StrongMom]

Yeah, the estrogen and thyroid stuff are all interrelated. Too much estrogen will wreak a lot of havoc, slowing down your thyroid function and clogging up your liver, among other things. And when you’re constipated, the estrogen and toxins aren’t getting eliminated as well as they should. Hmmm… you may also want to check out the threads on liver health as well. Getting estrogen levels down and tuning up your liver (if needed) may be enough to improve your thyroid function. And a lot of the things you need for that can be bought over the counter – vitamin E and K, coffee, etc. I was already on thyroid supplements when I discovered Peat, so I didn’t have a chance to try the other things first. Thyroid supplementing can sometimes be tricky, but others might say start with that first. Maybe someone with more experience will chime in here…

Yeah, I have been thinking which one is the root cause. I remember in the past I always needed more sleep than my peers. I didn't feel rested if i slept as much as others did. Over time that declined but it coincided with the start of sleep problems. Also, I am usually feel cold; I mean relative to other people in the room, and I barely sweat.

I have been taking vitamin E for 4 months and last month started taking Vitamin K.

I have been a heavy coffee drinker all my life. But nowadays I have to limit it to mornings as otherwise I cannot sleep. Besides in the past coffee used to help with constipation, but it barely does help nowadays.

 

[tara]

I like what sweetpeat is saying.

I tend to favour seeing what you can do by improving diet before adding in thyroid supps, because sometimes getting well nourished is enough to solve a lot of problems, and even if it doesn't solve everything, you need good nutrition in place to support a metabolism brought up by thyroid supps anyway.

 

[StrongMom]

I agree Tara. I have been working on improving my diet, maybe not ideally, but I am trying to change as much as I can do. But how long do you think it would take for me to see some results? What kind of changes should I observe first? My pulse or temperature? Ideally, an improvement in sleep would be good. What are your experiences?

 

[Xisca]

It is true that I am very adapted to eating starches. Are you saying that without eating starches, feeling of "fullness" is different? It is just scaring me as I have a lot sleep issues. I feel that I sleep better after a meal with a lot of starch.

I feel that it is different, yes! If you are used to a type of fullness, then the other fullness does not feel the same. I feel starches as heavier in the stomach.
I was constipated only once, when starting Peat and eating more cheese and less veggies! And less fat.
With veggies and fat, I think it helps a lot. Fats really makes a difference.
I agree with salt, I have to think about it when I eat bananas for example.