Don't feel full without starches

[StrongMom]

Hi,

Can someone help me understand why I do not feel full without eating starches? I am loosing my mind. I would like to eat Peat style but I cannot focus or sleep without eating starches.

Thanks

 

[Xisca]

Hi, just want to let you know some hope, because I am off starches for a long time. But I did not cut them quick. Quick is counter productive. I have been told often that "slow is fast"!
Before knowing Peat, I did it by increasing fats. Also with big nice salads with home made mayonaise (without PUFA...). Emulsified fats digest easier and are filling.

Have you tried to eat a lot of fruits?

Also, Peat says that you can eat potatoes if they are cooked 3/4 hour, and then put some butter. That can be a good starch for you? The 1st starches I cut were gluten grains. I felt like living again!

 

[StrongMom]

Hi Xisca,

Thanks for the quick response. Yes, potatoes can help a lot, even though they are not as satisfying as bread, grains, etc. The reason I would like to cut starches is that Ray Peat says that they cause too much stress. I think I have had too much stress hormones in my system my whole life.

I am suffering from heartburn in the last year or so. My guess is I have some digestion issues. Do you think it would be easy to digest emulsified fats even with poor digestion?

 

[Xisca]

It is just that I was there at the right moment to answer!

I also know what is this stomach burn... In my case this is due to a lack of acid, and not the reverse, paradoxicaly, as vinegar + water is efficient to calm it. Also I have it better when I eat meat, probably because meat triggers a more acid stomach juice?
Emulsified oil is easier to digest, because bilis is just doing that: emulsifying so that we can absorb fats. If this is fresh eggs + oilve oil it is ok, but comercial ones are not good because of the bad oil, pufa.

Well, starches are bad because they change into only glucose, the fructose is missing, so eat fruits! Sucrose is good especially when fruits are missing, when they are hard to find ripe. I always choose the natural solution when I can.
I did get a better digestion off starches, and even with only suppressing gluten grains 1st. Try to have white rice when you need grains then! Any quick change is stressful, so slow is better.

Bread can be difficult to stop if you are not used to eat without a piece of bread. This is a ne way to cook. But that is so great, I allow myself to lick plates as children love to!!!!!!!!! Think about all the room for new good stuff instead of this same bread all the time...

I know from “before Peat” that glucose is absorbed less rapidly when you eat fat with the starch, like butter, coconut or olive oil that are not pufas. Also, if you eat some veggies, the fiber will slow down the glucose absorbtion. I never use “hard” fibers like in grains, and I do not let the hard fiber of the veggies either. We do not need irritation! Peat says that well cooked veggies are fine. Personnally I am also ok with raw veggies, and I produce them in the garden, so they are even better! Fruits have fiber that balance the sugar intake I guess.

My expereince is that I tolerate sugars only when I am off starches! Starches are a havoc for the digestive system, well for mine.
My mistake was to believe that all other sugars were bad, though I was asking myself why on earth we could have a sweet tooth if this was not meant to direct us to the right foods!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I already knew that omega 6 were not good, but I ate them “only” in the form of whole seeds, such as almonds. I have stopped this.

Do you eat fish and meat and dairies? Peat’s diet is not only about “suppressing”, it is also about adding!!!! They are quite filling too. Also, you might find awkward to eat more often, this is just different, fruits digest quicker.

Ho, another thought... When you do not feel "full", try to feel better, track your sensation. Maybe you just feel "lighter"? At the beginning I was feeling my guts so silent that I did not feel ok! It was just different.

 

[Such_Saturation]

If you are still craving starch after a meal sparkle some sea salt on a tablespoon of coconut oil and eat it (don't swallow it right away though). If the issue is keeping the stomach at bay you can use cottage cheese until the system adapts.

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

Honestly, how much have you tried eating? You may be very adapted to starches... They're not really as bad as people make them out to be. Some people do very well on them, but I would still cut out the gluten-grains just because of the chance of issues with them. I mostly do potatoes and rice. Eating a lot of veggies can help too - get a stir fry with carrots, tomatoes, some bell peppers, and your beef and spices... Shouldn't be too empty, eh?

 

[StrongMom]

I do eat a lot dairy...Well that is how I was raised: a lot of dairy, starches, some fruits and nuts. I eat meat as well, not a lot of fish though. I stopped eating nuts after finding out PUFAs. The thing is that I crave things that are crunchy. I was thinking maybe it is because I do not have enough digestive juices and eating crunchy things might be inducing the juices.

Salt definitely helps. Again in the last year or so, I started feeling like foods do not taste the way they tasted before. I started adding a lot of salt and also sugar. I crave extreme flavors with a lot of salt or sugar.

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

OK... I don't see a problem with your cravings if you don't.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Yes, starches that are crunchy can be attractive when you are stressed, because the bite response can relieve some of that. Biochemical analysis revealed that biting significantly suppressed increases of plasma interleukin-1beta, interleukin-6, and leptin and that it significantly suppressed a decrease of thyroid-stimulating hormone. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17945207

 

[StrongMom]

It is true that I am very adapted to eating starches. Are you saying that without eating starches, feeling of "fullness" is different? It is just scaring me as I have a lot sleep issues. I feel that I sleep better after a meal with a lot of starch.

 

[StrongMom]

BTW, how do you understand if/when you don't tolerate grains/starches. I do not have bloating, etc. but I have been constipated whole my life.

 

[sweetpeat]

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that getting sleep trumps a perfect Peat-style diet. Lack of sleep will only make you MORE stressed. There are also other things that can cause stress besides starch. Make slow changes to your diet as others have suggested, if it makes sense to you and makes you feel better, while you keep reading about Peat's ideas and learning how your own unique body responds to things.

As for why this is happening, if you have a low metabolism, maybe the starches are raising it enough to allow you to sleep, in the short-term.

 

[StrongMom]

"As for why this is happening, if you have a low metabolism, maybe the starches are raising it enough to allow you to sleep, in the short-term."
I think that is the most interesting explanation I have heard of!!!! So do you think starches can raise the metabolism?

I think I have low metabolism. My pulse rate is around 60. I checked my doctor's office reports going back 10 years. It was always around 60. My temp is normal though. Again, my guess is stress hormones are compensating.

 

[tara]

StressedMom

I'm with sweetpeat and oxidation on eating in a way that lets you sleep, with or without starches.
Starchy foods are often high calorie-density and come with lots of salt, which may be factors in making you feel better with them, and maybe giving you enough energy to sleep.

If you want to experiment with less/no starch, have you been replacing it with similar amounts of calories from sugar? And still eating as much salt? Similar overal calorie density? Such's salty coconut oil suggestion might help.

I have gradually gone from high starch-low sugar to low starch-high sugar. I still want some starch. I have to remember to salt other things generously when I'm not having salty starchy food. I used to not feel satisfied unless my stomach was full, but I've got used to this. I used to need snacks in the night to get back to sleep, but seldom do now.

Raw carrots are crunchy.

 

[StrongMom]

Hi Tara

I don't think having enough calories is the issue. For example, last night before going to bed I had 1.5 pint ice cream and also some chocolate but could not sleep for two hours. In the end I ate some bread and cheese and were able to go into sleep.

Carrots are chrunchy and i eat them a lot. Even before knowing Ray Peat they were one of my favorities.

 

[StrongMom]

Also, you say you got used to. Do you mean you got used to feeling not satisfied after meals? Do you have a different fullness feeling with a Peat style diet?

 

[koganmj]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5859

 

[tara]

Ice cream and chocolate often have no salt. Salt can often lower adrenaline and make sleep easier. Bread and cheese usually have quite a bit of salt. You could try cheese and fruit without the bread if you wanted to try again.
But if you feel better with starches, it may not benefit you to stop eating them.

 

[tara]

Also, you say you got used to. Do you mean you got used to feeling not satisfied after meals? Do you have a different fullness feeling with a Peat style diet?

Not hungry and craving more food ususally, just not with a stuffed full stomach, which I ued to associate with satiation back in my high starch high fibre days.

 

[Tom]

I am suffering from heartburn in the last year or so. My guess is I have some digestion issues. Do you think it would be easy to digest emulsified fats even with poor digestion?

Maybe you have an H Pylori infection or something, otherwise I´ve found beets and egg yolks very helpful. Vinegar (acetic acid) seems to be strongly anti-microbial, maybe also coconut oil. For a lot of people the heartburn just disappears by adding a tablespoon or two per day of vinegar (see http://www.earthclinic.com/acid-reflux/ ... negar.html where 274 persons experienced positive effect of this, and only 18 persons negative effect). The simple sugars in orange juice can be a problem initially as well (maybe whole fruit is better). Could be it is best to start out with more starches, not grains but potatoes and tubers, and then gradually replace them with fruits and orange juice. There´s no need to rush things.