Don't Eat X, But Eat More Calories

[somuch4food]

I was trying to figure out things in my business which did bring on a lot of mental stress - my mind was constantly racing and thinking about what's next. It wasn't anxiety, it was more an inability to stop thinking about what I needed to do next, and never feeling like I was getting enough done every day. (Actually I still have that)

I guess we don't word things the same way. I see racing thoughts as a sign of anxiety/stress.

Have you ever tried herbals? I'm finding Lemon Balm helps calm my thoughts. Other things that work well are celery salt, magnesium oil and sunflower seeds. Weirdly enough too much Peaty stuff like fruits and dairy will trigger racing thoughts. It's a tough balance to keep.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

I guess we don't word things the same way. I see racing thoughts as a sign of anxiety/stress.

Well I've experienced what I call anxiety, and the thoughts are much more worried and painful I guess I would say. I'm more in a negative state - really worrying about things.

Whereas for me the racing thoughts aren't necessarily negative, just incessant. I don't enjoy the racing thoughts, but the anxiety to me is much worse, emotionally.

Have you ever tried herbals? I'm finding Lemon Balm helps calm my thoughts. Other things that work well are celery salt, magnesium oil and sunflower seeds. Weirdly enough too much Peaty stuff like fruits and dairy will trigger racing thoughts. It's a tough balance to keep.

I've tried various things in the past, but nothing at the moment. I will look into the magnesium oil and lemon balm, thank you.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

However, currently I also now get quite tired again around 10-11am, and find myself needing to nap for several hours.

That, on top of the fact that I tend not to eat a lot AND drink coffee every day (2-3 cups in the morning) I think probably fried my adrenals.

I can empathize with both of these maladies. A brief-ish anecdote:
There was a time that, as a means of coping with depression, I was drinking upwards of 10 cups of coffee a day. For some people on this forum that's no big deal and I can understand why, but at the time I couldn't believe I was able to do that in the first place. Energy all the time despite trouble sleeping and a lack of it to boot, 6 hours was a slumber.

Did a bunch of psychedelic mushrooms and quit the excessive weed + coffee habit cold turkey shortly thereafter. Reintroduced both of them in moderation about 4 months later, but shortly after this endeavor, I
picked up keto for several months, then tried paleo stuff, then carnivore, then raw carnivore. All of these diets maintained coffee and progressively getting to a point of strictly consuming black coffee on an empty stomach in attempts to intensify "autophagy" benefits. I was religious about the coffee and developed a masochistic habit of having nothing but black coffee on a fasted stomach at 9AM, studying until 3PM or so, then running a few miles, and having some kind of protein + fat dinner over the course of 6-10PM or so.

Adrenaline on all the time, wicked cold extremities, a cup of coffee would make me dump 3 liters of water I swear. Picked up urine therapy some time after this specifically with that in mind. Doesn't work like that for anyone who's wondering lol.
Haven't bothered with that stuff in quite some time, but it's got a peculiar effect on the hair and skin when used topically.
To anyone who's reading: if you take any supplements whatsoever, do not play around with urine therapy until you're positive they are well cleared out of your system.

This was like over a year ago. Since around 7 months ago I've been recovering starting with all raw fruit + veg fasting + herbs and then into fruit fasting and then into adding starches and meat learning about food combinations, using castor oil + turpentine, and just recently thanks to God and @Amazoniac posting a thread about the "Milch regimen," fixed some 10 year "lactose intolerance" problem and currently I've never felt better.

Sorry about the not-so-brief 'dear diary' reading. I suppose I wanted to get the thoughts off of my chest. Here's my point:

I more recently ran into a similar wall a few months ago with the need for extra sleep and napping, etc. Wasn't the first time, but this time I knew it wasn't from mold, SIBO, or parasites, aheh.
Paul Chek recommended a book by James L. Wilson titled, 'Adrenal Fatigue: the 21st Century Stress Syndrome' which contained information that kicked me out of this slump written into the next section written about 2 month ago:

The dietary solution(s) to adrenal fatigue is/are vitamin C (note: not ascorbic acid), B vitamins, magnesium, calcium, salt (note: not iodized salt), seaweed, and trace minerals (like shilajit, fulvic and/or humic acid).
Herbs include licorice root, eleuthero root, ginger root, ashwagandha root, panax ginseng root (men only), and ginkgo biloba leaf.
In layman's terms - liver, roots, dirt, tree fruit, vegetables, salt, and seaweed.
I have personally felt amazing results from the following protocol:
Herbal Tea - 2 cups of water, bring just shy of a boil
Add 1 teaspoon licorice root, 1/4 teaspoon eleuthero root, 1/2 teaspoon ginkgo biloba leaf, 1/4 teaspoon ginger root, 1/4 teaspoon ashwagandha root.
*Simmer 15 minutes, strain

Take tea accompanied by the following supplements:
+ 1 - 3 teaspoons of acerola cherry powder or camu camu berry
+ 180mg (one capsule) magnesium malate
+ 1/8 teaspoon shilajit
Repeat every 3-4 hours as desired.
_______________________________________________

The biggest realization I had was just how much vitamin C I was lacking. I dosed damn near 15 grams of vitamin C from acerola cherry powder each day for 3 days in a row in tandem with 540-720mg of magnesium without running into any such problem of loose stools. I went heavy on the salt and consumed adequate fructose as well.

My sleep quality, cognitive ability (including short term memory) came back just about overnight. Anxiety that I didn't even realize I was having all that time pretty much left the building on a dime. Felt like quite the miracle thinking back on it.

James Wilson rails on coffee pretty hard in his book, basically saying it's the worst natural substance we can use to tank our adrenals.

Robert Morse makes a simple correlation of anxiety to weak adrenal function. Still seems pretty accurate as far as I know.

I also did my resting pulse rate, and it was 60 bpm...I know that's a bit low. I've always had low blood pressure my entire life.

Licorice root is wonderful and it will raise your blood pressure to normal ranges for adequate volume to pass through the kidneys, but take care not to closely overlap it with coffee because it increases the half-life of cortisol.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

I can empathize with both of these maladies. A brief-ish anecdote:
There was a time that, as a means of coping with depression, I was drinking upwards of 10 cups of coffee a day. For some people on this forum that's no big deal and I can understand why, but at the time I couldn't believe I was able to do that in the first place. Energy all the time despite trouble sleeping and a lack of it to boot, 6 hours was a slumber.

Did a bunch of psychedelic mushrooms and quit the excessive weed + coffee habit cold turkey shortly thereafter. Reintroduced both of them in moderation about 4 months later, but shortly after this endeavor, I
picked up keto for several months, then tried paleo stuff, then carnivore, then raw carnivore. All of these diets maintained coffee and progressively getting to a point of strictly consuming black coffee on an empty stomach in attempts to intensify "autophagy" benefits. I was religious about the coffee and developed a masochistic habit of having nothing but black coffee on a fasted stomach at 9AM, studying until 3PM or so, then running a few miles, and having some kind of protein + fat dinner over the course of 6-10PM or so.

Adrenaline on all the time, wicked cold extremities, a cup of coffee would make me dump 3 liters of water I swear. Picked up urine therapy some time after this specifically with that in mind. Doesn't work like that for anyone who's wondering lol.
Haven't bothered with that stuff in quite some time, but it's got a peculiar effect on the hair and skin when used topically.
To anyone who's reading: if you take any supplements whatsoever, do not play around with urine therapy until you're positive they are well cleared out of your system.

This was like over a year ago. Since around 7 months ago I've been recovering starting with all raw fruit + veg fasting + herbs and then into fruit fasting and then into adding starches and meat learning about food combinations, using castor oil + turpentine, and just recently thanks to God and @Amazoniac posting a thread about the "Milch regimen," fixed some 10 year "lactose intolerance" problem and currently I've never felt better.

Sorry about the not-so-brief 'dear diary' reading. I suppose I wanted to get the thoughts off of my chest. Here's my point:

I more recently ran into a similar wall a few months ago with the need for extra sleep and napping, etc. Wasn't the first time, but this time I knew it wasn't from mold, SIBO, or parasites, aheh.
Paul Chek recommended a book by James L. Wilson titled, 'Adrenal Fatigue: the 21st Century Stress Syndrome' which contained information that kicked me out of this slump written into the next section written about 2 month ago:

The dietary solution(s) to adrenal fatigue is/are vitamin C (note: not ascorbic acid), B vitamins, magnesium, calcium, salt (note: not iodized salt), seaweed, and trace minerals (like shilajit, fulvic and/or humic acid).
Herbs include licorice root, eleuthero root, ginger root, ashwagandha root, panax ginseng root (men only), and ginkgo biloba leaf.
In layman's terms - liver, roots, dirt, tree fruit, vegetables, salt, and seaweed.
I have personally felt amazing results from the following protocol:
Herbal Tea - 2 cups of water, bring just shy of a boil
Add 1 teaspoon licorice root, 1/4 teaspoon eleuthero root, 1/2 teaspoon ginkgo biloba leaf, 1/4 teaspoon ginger root, 1/4 teaspoon ashwagandha root.
*Simmer 15 minutes, strain

Take tea accompanied by the following supplements:
+ 1 - 3 teaspoons of acerola cherry powder or camu camu berry
+ 180mg (one capsule) magnesium malate
+ 1/8 teaspoon shilajit
Repeat every 3-4 hours as desired.
_______________________________________________

The biggest realization I had was just how much vitamin C I was lacking. I dosed damn near 15 grams of vitamin C from acerola cherry powder each day for 3 days in a row in tandem with 540-720mg of magnesium without running into any such problem of loose stools. I went heavy on the salt and consumed adequate fructose as well.

My sleep quality, cognitive ability (including short term memory) came back just about overnight. Anxiety that I didn't even realize I was having all that time pretty much left the building on a dime. Felt like quite the miracle thinking back on it.

James Wilson rails on coffee pretty hard in his book, basically saying it's the worst natural substance we can use to tank our adrenals.

Robert Morse makes a simple correlation of anxiety to weak adrenal function. Still seems pretty accurate as far as I know.

Licorice root is wonderful and it will raise your blood pressure to normal ranges for adequate volume to pass through the kidneys, but take care not to closely overlap it with coffee because it increases the half-life of cortisol.

Wow, this is a very helpful post. Thank you so much. The more I google and research my symptoms, the more I think I indeed have the beginning stages of adrenal fatigue. I know that term isn't accepted by all, but no matter what you call it, running on stress hormones and then feeling exhausted after a few weeks/months/years afterwards is a thing, whatever it's called.

Thank you for sharing your protocol, I really appreciate it!

I actually do take vitamin C, but the Emergen-C kind (well the Sprouts more natural version of Emergen-C), which I think is ascorbic acid, but not sure. I'm starting to realize how important the quality of the vitamin or nutrient you take really is. It isn't enough to just take any ol Vitamin C or any ol what have you - it has the be the right kind.

I do think that small doses of coffee are OK, but whenever I see that I am using it as a substitute for real energy (which I often do), I know I'm not doing myself any favors. Luckily I know enough about myself to never do the 5+ cups a day that some people seem to promote. I never drink more than 2 cups a day, but that can "fuel" me for a long time. And I don't think it's necessarily real energy.

Are you still following that protocol, and are you still feeling much better?

EDIT: I actually have a free consultation in 30 minutes with a woman who specializes in helping women with adrenal fatigue. So I will see what she has to say.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

I know that term isn't accepted by all, but no matter what you call it, running on stress hormones and then feeling exhausted after a few weeks/months/years afterwards is a thing, whatever it's called.

It's an ambiguous thing. Wilson touches on the ICD (International Classification of Disease) and the insurance company gambit of pinning doctors into diagnosing someone with Addison's disease or nothing at all. Addison's disease is basically borderline adrenal failure, think like <10% functionality. Adrenal fatigue on the other hand is more like 50-70% adrenal functionality, but if my memory serves me, the only test he mentions which could reveal this is a salivary cortisol test which many conventional doctors think is useless because it doesn't give them any particular diagnosis which fits with the standardized list to choose from in accordance with the IDC diagnoses and the insurance companies they are in bed with. Basically adrenal fatigue is not discussed professionally because it doesn't pay the doctor's bills nor cover the patient's treatment costs despite it being highly affiliated with the following conditions: respiratory infections, allergies, rhinitis, asthma, frequent colds, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, hypoglycemia, adult onset diabetes, auto-immune disorders, and alcoholism. It was also mentioned that some 60% of PCOS cases also have hypoglycemia.

It's a big racket, but my belief is that if you're not recovering from day to day, your adrenals are tied in to that problem in a critical way.

It isn't enough to just take any ol Vitamin C or any ol what have you - it has the be the right kind.

Haha indeed. Many pitfalls in the supplement world. This forum can help in both directions as far as supplement recommendations go. Morley Robbins warns against ascorbic acid regularly because it depletes useable copper. The incompleteness of the synthetic compound will take the missing pieces from the body in order to be metabolized... though it's more like, "neutralized" in many cases. The more I've delved into the possible side-effects of synthetic vs. natural nutrients, the more I don't care to mess with them in search of some mystical overnight spell of healthful restoration. Any time I've ever experienced any such sensation, it was from a medley of whole food treatments which filled missing gaps. I'll assume I'm not alone in this sentiment.

That being said, some stuff is still really fun to play with. Nootropics, pre-workout stacks, weight gain or loss stacks, etc

Are you still following that protocol, and are you still feeling much better?

I now have a better idea of when to use whole-food vitamin C, salt, and magnesium to even-out stressful experiences... i.e. too much work, sweating, exercise, bowel movements, emotional stress, etc... So yes and no. Adrenal 'treatments' in line with the previously listed substances have shifted from code red missing link > to more useful additions to the toolkit to keep the ship sailing with the wind instead of against it

And yeah, way better. My condition is/has been psoriasis (skin inflammation) for about 6 years. It's always been like a blinking red nose when things aren't going well. Universal correlation to my digestion, cognitive function, sleep quality, ease-of-breath, exercise capacity when it's in remission vs. inflamed. Has been reliably healing almost miraculously in this last week. It's such a special occasion that I almost don't even believe it, hah. Seems the milk & OJ is doing the heavy lifting.

EDIT: I actually have a free consultation in 30 minutes with a woman who specializes in helping women with adrenal fatigue. So I will see what she has to say.

Do share!

 

[inurendotoxin]

Don't you get bloated eating like this? It sounds like I would LOVE eating...

I seldom experience bloating, although specifically chicken and cruciferous veggies do give me gas.

Actually I swear by the bran flakes - at least one bowl a day. Initially I cut them out when peating but I find the fiber so beneficial I'm convinced it outweighs any negatives from the starch. Have consistently found it to be way more reliable than fruit alone.

 

[opson123]

I seldom experience bloating, although specifically chicken and cruciferous veggies do give me gas.

Actually I swear by the bran flakes - at least one bowl a day. Initially I cut them out when peating but I find the fiber so beneficial I'm convinced it outweighs any negatives from the starch. Have consistently found it to be way more reliable than fruit alone.

Kelloggs All Bran? Most Kelloggs products in EU come from the UK which is a safe haven for glyphosate herbicides which is a shame so I'm a bit unwilling to try. Something like Organic Weetabix would be worth a shot I guess. No bran in it though. Or just straight up wheat bran. Though I recall someone here saying that bran is really tough on the gut so I guess my gut won't be able to handle it.

 

[inurendotoxin]

Kelloggs All Bran? Most Kelloggs products in EU come from the UK which is a safe haven for glyphosate herbicides which is a shame so I'm a bit unwilling to try. Something like Organic Weetabix would be worth a shot I guess. No bran in it though. Or just straight up wheat bran. Though I recall someone here saying that bran is really tough on the gut so I guess my gut won't be able to handle it.

I usually buy the cheap supermarket stuff, but sure All bran would do the job. I've never had a reaction to non-organic foods so couldn't really comment on that. Weetabix (and Shredded Wheat) are supposedly high fiber, but seems it's bran (exclusively) that helps my digestion. Tolerance and mileage will vary, of course...

 

[opson123]

I usually buy the cheap supermarket stuff, but sure All bran would do the job. I've never had a reaction to non-organic foods so couldn't really comment on that. Weetabix (and Shredded Wheat) are supposedly high fiber, but seems it's bran (exclusively) that helps my digestion. Tolerance and mileage will vary, of course...

I'll have to try just the bran stuff.

 

[inurendotoxin]

I'll have to try just the bran stuff.

If it's of interest (and perhaps reinforcing my own confirmation bias), I found this one RP quote in support of (specifically) Wheat bran. Oat bran and other cereals remain in suspicion:

"In general, cellulose fibers do protect against bowel cancer, but a few plant fibers that contain lignin or that are fermentable increase cancer. Wheat bran is the only common cereal fiber that’s protective."

Source: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository
References from: Natural Estrogens

 

[Eastcoast Seth]

Lean muscle meat by itself is low-calorie, it's just pure protein content. If you're gonna eat meat, eat fatty meat.
Starch is indeed calorically dense.
You have to find a way to eat 400g+ of carbs / day, however you do it.
My total sugar content almost reaches 300g / day

Man weren’t you also complaining about this a while back, that you chronically understaffed? What’s your diet like now?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Hey all,

Feeling a little bit frustrated reading through the advice here. Already I don't eat enough calories, so I hear the advice "EAT MORE CALORIES"...

But then conversely I read...

avoid too much starch or too much muscle meat which increases insulin, while also avoiding PUFA

If it weren't for starch and muscle meat I would be eating practically nothing. Avocados and olive oil also give me some much needed fat calories, in an easy way. Not to mention nut butters!

What do you all do to get enough calories?? Are you really all just living off of gallons of milk and OJ and oysters? I am not down with that, it just does not seem pleasant.

On the one hand I need to eat more calories...But on the other hand, I should avoid MEAT, and STARCH, as well as a major type of fat?

For somebody like me who already under eats, following a "Peat inspired" diet feels like I'm shooting myself in one foot to benefit the other one.

I hear you Wealth! I have been "Peating for 4+ years now and never did all the milk and orange juice. I eat better than anyone I know. I just started a couple of threads this week with the quick and easy meals I am making and posting pics of the instructions. I hope they help :)

EASY "PEATY" PROTEINS - Recipes with photos & Step By Step Instructions

"Besides fasting, or chronic protein deficiency, the common causes of hypothyroidism are excessive stress or “aerobic” (i.e. anaerobic) exercise, and diets containing beans, lentils, nuts, unsaturated fats (including carotene), and undercooked broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, and mustard greens...

raypeatforum.com

"Peaty" Fruits & Vegetables - Easy Step By Step Recipes (Photos)

"Generally, fruits, roots, and tubers provide a high concentration of nutrients along with low concentrations of toxic antimetabolic substances." -Ray Peat I hear so often people frustratingly say, "What do you eat on this diet?". Last night I brought up this topic to my husband and said, "what...

raypeatforum.com