Don't Eat X, But Eat More Calories

[wealthofwisdom]

Yeah the nuts I would probably ditch them as quick as I could truth is they are not very Peaty. Suggestions for calories: pasta, carrot salad, sweet potatoes, double down on rice, switch all oils for coconut oil, buy (or make) good quality (no added iron if possible) bread, butter to go with it. See if issues with OJ go away with salt (btw OJ should be as fresh as possible, this leaves out 99% of what you could buy in a supermarket). It's not easy and in the US at least, I feel certainly not that cheap, but your health is worth it. If anything cut the nuts and increase portions of what you are already eating. I would give the oysters a shot and see how you feel.

I've always loved nuts. Is it just a theoretical reasoning behind not eating nuts, or have people seen actual improvements in their health from removing them? I've never felt that nuts made me feel bad, except for cashews, which make me feel slightly sick for some reason. I especially love pecans and always feel like they make a healthy snack. I've also always loved eating pure peanut butter and almond butter, and have never felt like they cause me any issues...

 

[wealthofwisdom]

OP mentioned she did not tolerate sugar well. Most of those are pretty sugar-laden.

I'm sure Peat has said the increasing calories is way more important for metabolism than including/avoiding starches and PUFA. (Reference pending..)

Numerous cases of people fixing metabolism eating a ton of junk food and PUFA (Stephanie Buttermore comes to mind) who have never even heard of Ray Peat.

It sounds like fruit would be a good call though. Bananas are great, and satiating. Cheese is highly kcal dense. Then of course there's butter, and coconut oil as others have mentioned. Melting in cheese and butter with your regular meals seems like an easy (and delicious) way to add kcals and protein. Or just increasing portion sizes in general? Unsweetened cream goes well with just about anything - heavy cream, sour cream (creme freche?), coconut cream...

Personally I eat a ton of fruit, eggs, tuna, muscle meats, protein yogurt (that Icelandic Skyr stuff is incredible) and bitter marmalade (or low sugar jams), sweet potato, occasional bread, low PUFA (but not completely avoided), truckloads of cereal and oats. Very seldom do I add sugar to stuff, but if I had the macros, I would double down on nut butters and ice cream all day.

Controversially I would say bran flakes, muesli and oatmeal make up like 25-33% of my daily intake (also how I get most of my milk). Because, it's important to enjoy what you eat.

I think the PUFA and starch avoidance is somewhat overblown in RP land. Environment and good living are way more influential on metabolism. If your intestine is healthy, you can handle a few grains.

Thanks, these are some good tips. Glad to hear that about increasing calories over avoiding starch & PUFA :)

What did you mean by

if I had the macros, I would double down on nut butters and ice cream all day.

I don't understand what you mean there..."if you had the macros"...what does that mean?

 

[wealthofwisdom]

You have to find a way to eat 400g+ of carbs / day, however you do it.

That is QUITE a lot. Might not be able to handle that much. However looking at this video, I"m getting some ideas on how to add more carbs. Oatmeal is a big one that comes to mind. I've always loved oatmeal, but keep forgetting about it...

 

[wealthofwisdom]

just eat whatever you want to, as much as you can. focus on simple sugars and saturated fat. Dont listen to people here. the majority of them are neurotic and sick with no understand of nature and logic. Maybe youll get lucky and have someone who has their head screwed on straight respond. The rest are jabronis.

"jabronis" Don't even know what that means, but it's hilarious

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Starch digests just fine for me but in a couple days I start getting very sick again with symptoms of endotoxemia/serotonin overload. Tried all iterations: 100% vegan low saturated fat, plant-based with some animal products, only potatoes, only rice, only sourdough, starch with coconut oil or butter or olive oil... just doesn't work.

I googled "serotonin overload symptoms" (since I have never heard of this) and none of the symptoms seem to apply to me. So maybe that means starch is OK with me.

Serotonin Syndrome Symptoms

Serotonin syndrome symptoms often begin hours after you take a new medication that affects your serotonin levels or after you raise your dose of a current drug. Symptoms may include:

• Confusion
• Agitation or restlessness
• Dilated pupils
• Headache
• Changes in blood pressure and/or temperature
• Nausea
• Vomiting
• Diarrhea
• Rapid heart rate
• Tremor
• Loss of muscle control or twitching muscles
• Shivering and goosebumps
• Heavy sweating

In severe cases, serotonin syndrome can be life-threatening. Call 911 or go to the emergency room if you have any of these symptoms:

• High fever
• Seizures
• Uneven heartbeat
• Passing out

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Cutting out starch has been the best thing I've ever done for my health, and many other people on this forum have experienced benefits from going no starch.

If someone wants to eat starch and feel good doing that, that's awesome! No need to change anything.

If you're sick and desperate to find a solution to your health problems, maybe try not eating starch and see what happens.

Since going zero starch I no longer wake up feeling poisoned and am able to workout again for the first time in years. When I reintroduce starch, my symptoms come back. I am very grateful for Peat's advice.

I agree that it's important to check your own reactions. My current issue is low energy / insomnia/ adrenal fatigue.

Starch has always given me energy, not taken it away. When I was on the Whole 30 elimination diet for 1 month (with no rice or potatoes) my **** was dragging. The second I had my first bite of rice all of my energy came flooding back. Rice especially gives me a boost of energy. And from what I can tell I don't have the symptoms of somebody who has issues with starch.

I personally suspect caffeine and low caloric intake as 2 underlying causes if my "issues".

 

[damngoodcoffee]

I've always loved nuts. Is it just a theoretical reasoning behind not eating nuts, or have people seen actual improvements in their health from removing them?

Some roasted and salted nuts are delicious no doubt but I feel a lot better without them.
Maybe this sounds a bit arrogant but I think that one really can't perceive how much better you can feel without a lot of PUFA in your diet if you haven't experienced it. I think that even if you don't feel overwhelming bad effects from PUFA, still avoiding it as much as you can really helps to speed up your metabolism and make your digestion work better which leads to better appetite and easier to eat enough and feel energetic, calm and sleep well etc. Should help you to eat more than 50 grams of carbs, that's really not a whole lot. :--o

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Some roasted and salted nuts are delicious no doubt but I feel a lot better without them.
Maybe this sounds a bit arrogant but I think that one really can't perceive how much better you can feel without a lot of PUFA in your diet if you haven't experienced it. I think that even if you don't feel overwhelming bad effects from PUFA, still avoiding it as much as you can really helps to speed up your metabolism and make your digestion work better which leads to better appetite and easier to eat enough and feel energetic, calm and sleep well etc. Should help you to eat more than 50 grams of carbs, that's really not a whole lot. :--o

So I'm really bad at calculating carbs (or any macros/calories). I actually just googled "what does 400 g of carbs look like" and i found a photo of what 50 g of carbs looked like and it definitely looked like more carbs than I eat in a day. But then I watched the video above of what 400g of carbs looks like to another woman, and her diet seems feasible.

So I think it depends on what types of carbs. If I'm including things like oatmeal and rice and gluten free bread, then yes I think I can get there. If I'm relying on potatoes, sweet potatoes and fruit, then I think I couldn't be able to ingest the quantity needed for 400 g of carbs...

What are the negative effects that PUFA have on you, personally?

 

[damngoodcoffee]

What are the negative effects that PUFA have on you, personally?

Nausea, brain fog, headaches, low energy, low libido, erectile dysfunction, all sorts of aches and pains, to name a few.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Nausea, brain fog, headaches, low energy, low libido, erectile dysfunction, all sorts of aches and pains, to name a few.

I see... to be honest, I have a gut feeling that PUFAs are not my issue. I more think that I'm missing some nutrient I should be adding (like some sort of seafood, which I never eat). The only PUFAs I really eat are olive oil, almond butter, peanut butter, nuts. And not in large quantities. But I'm willing to give them up for a bit to see if it gives me energy.

 

[inurendotoxin]

Thanks, these are some good tips. Glad to hear that about increasing calories over avoiding starch & PUFA :)

I don't understand what you mean there..."if you had the macros"...what does that mean?

Happy to help.

Macros = Macro-nutrients. ie, Total distribution of a perston daily calories as Carbs, Protein and Fats. Some people prefer to use grams etc. The video you shared below is actually a pretty good explanation of this.

In my case I'm shooting for high carb, low fat, so nut butters and ice cream are restricted items.

 

[somuch4food]

The most important dietary advice is to drop refined PUFA oils and iron fortified foods, but you don't seem to have them in your current diet, so you are already doing better than many.

After that, learn what a stress response feels like and ways to avoid it. Another important point is to keep things moving in the gut to prevent endotoxins from wrecking your hormonal balance.

After that if you're discouraged, read Peat's articles instead of the forum. They are more nuanced.

The most important point is at the top of the forum: Perceive, Think, Act. It's key to find a diet that fits your personal experience and lifestyle. Nobody can tell you what your perfect diet is.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Happy to help.

Macros = Macro-nutrients. ie, Total distribution of a perston daily calories as Carbs, Protein and Fats. Some people prefer to use grams etc. The video you shared below is actually a pretty good explanation of this.

In my case I'm shooting for high carb, low fat, so nut butters and ice cream are restricted items.

Got it. So you mean that if you were to allow yourself high fat macros, you would in fact eat nut butters? You wouldn't worry about the PUFA content they contain?

 

[wealthofwisdom]

The most important dietary advice is to drop refined PUFA oils and iron fortified foods, but you don't seem to have them in your current diet, so you are already doing better than many.

After that, learn what a stress response feels like and ways to avoid it. Another important point is to keep things moving in the gut to prevent endotoxins from wrecking your hormonal balance.

After that if you're discouraged, read Peat's articles instead of the forum. They are more nuanced.

The most important point is at the top of the forum: Perceive, Think, Act. It's key to find a diet that fits your personal experience and lifestyle. Nobody can tell you what your perfect diet is.

The main thing that discouraged me was reading that quite a few of my food staples were considered to be off limits (by some); and it just wouldn't be feasible to stop eating them, since I need to be eating more not less.

I have actually tried to read a few Peat articles and I find it hard to get through them.

I'm not really sure what a stress response feels like... I know what a low blood sugar crash feels like. Are they similar?

 

[damngoodcoffee]

The only PUFAs I really eat are olive oil, almond butter, peanut butter, nuts. And not in large quantities. But I'm willing to give them up for a bit to see if it gives me energy.

Maybe it's doable for you to have some if you're not having serious big issues. I was a mess, having erectile dysfunction when I was under 20 y/old, lots of digestive problems, depression, hellish anxiety, no libido, all sorts of problems.. and finding Peat and starting to restrict PUFA was one of the biggest things that actually started shifting things for the better.

I still think it's good to experiment with restricting them. Experimenting with different dietary things is good for deepening our relationship with our body. I love all the experiments I've done through the years. In some way the biggest mistakes have taught me the most.

I have actually tried to read a few Peat articles and I find it hard to get through them.

I remember those days.

 

[Vins7]

OP mentioned she did not tolerate sugar well. Most of those are pretty sugar-laden.

I'm sure Peat has said the increasing calories is way more important for metabolism than including/avoiding starches and PUFA. (Reference pending..)

Numerous cases of people fixing metabolism eating a ton of junk food and PUFA (Stephanie Buttermore comes to mind) who have never even heard of Ray Peat.

It sounds like fruit would be a good call though. Bananas are great, and satiating. Cheese is highly kcal dense. Then of course there's butter, and coconut oil as others have mentioned. Melting in cheese and butter with your regular meals seems like an easy (and delicious) way to add kcals and protein. Or just increasing portion sizes in general? Unsweetened cream goes well with just about anything - heavy cream, sour cream (creme freche?), coconut cream...


Personally I eat a ton of fruit, eggs, tuna, muscle meats, protein yogurt (that Icelandic Skyr stuff is incredible) and bitter marmalade (or low sugar jams), sweet potato, occasional bread, low PUFA (but not completely avoided), truckloads of cereal and oats. Very seldom do I add sugar to stuff, but if I had the macros, I would double down on nut butters and ice cream all day.

Controversially I would say bran flakes, muesli and oatmeal make up like 25-33% of my daily intake (also how I get most of my milk). Because, it's important to enjoy what you eat.

I think the PUFA and starch avoidance is somewhat overblown in RP land. Environment and good living are way more influential on metabolism. If your intestine is healthy, you can handle a few grains.

Don't you get bloated eating like this? It sounds like I would LOVE eating...

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Maybe it's doable for you to have some if you're not having serious big issues. I was a mess, having erectile dysfunction when I was under 20 y/old, lots of digestive problems, depression, hellish anxiety, no libido, all sorts of problems.. and finding Peat and starting to restrict PUFA was one of the biggest things that actually started shifting things for the better.

Well I mean I am having serious issues: adrenal fatigue (-like symptoms) and exhaustion every day - not being able to finish a day's work (or even a few hours) really sucks when you are self-employed :/....As well as hair shedding/hair loss.

But I have none of the other issues that you mentioned: digestion, libido, - these are actually quite strong I would say (and always have been). Anxiety - not quite sure. I do get anxious with anxious situations, but I don't have it all of the time. I tend towards a depressive state, but my depression stems more from not having the energy to finish what I want to finish because of exhaustion.

So I relate to some things, but not to others...

 

[somuch4food]

I'm not really sure what a stress response feels like... I know what a low blood sugar crash feels like. Are they similar?

They are not. Low blood sugar feels bad. Running on adrenalin can feel good and I can get caught in it for a while before I realize what's going on

How's your sleep? Do you wake up alert or grouchy? Is fatigue more mental or physical?

 

[wealthofwisdom]

They are not. Low blood sugar feels bad. Running on adrenalin can feel good and I can get caught in it for a while before I realize what's going on

Hmmm..Ok. I'm not sure about the stress response then. But come to think of it, I was probably running on stress and caffeine all of March, April & May - and perhaps that's where my current issues are stemming from. In April/May (and March too I think), I was going to bed at 12 am, and waking up at 4/5am. Weirdly, I wasn't tired during the day. I simply could not get myself to sleep - it was weird, since I normally need 7-8 hours per night.

I was trying to figure out things in my business which did bring on a lot of mental stress - my mind was constantly racing and thinking about what's next. It wasn't anxiety, it was more an inability to stop thinking about what I needed to do next, and never feeling like I was getting enough done every day. (Actually I still have that)

How's your sleep? Do you wake up alert or grouchy? Is fatigue more mental or physical?

Good question. Currently my sleep is not great. I have been experiencing insomnia at night and major exhaustion during the day. I always wake up early (5-6am naturally) in a pretty good mood and full of energy - I am a major morning person. (Conversely I tend towards feeling down/depressed at night.)

However, currently I also now get quite tired again around 10-11am, and find myself needing to nap for several hours. So right now all of my daily energy is between 5am-10am. I guess I need to relegate that time to getting my important stuff done! Then 1o / 11 am comes around and I suddenly feel exhausted. Lately I've been getting a second surge of energy around 8pm...So it's pretty messed up.

I do believe my fatigue started as being mainly mental and has now moved to being physical. The mental fatigue/exertion of dealing with losing clients during COVID, and everything I was trying to do during March, April, May...that caused me to be very "wired" for probably 2-3 months. That, on top of the fact that I tend not to eat a lot AND drink coffee every day (2-3 cups in the morning) I think probably fried my adrenals. I probably have some hormonal things going on as well.

I have also recently stopped a few things, just from running out of them: progesterone cream (I took for PMS symptoms, as mine can get quite bad); various vitamins (I just ran out or got lazy about taking them every day)

I also started doing HIIT sessions in May, which I loved, but I do think that that has probably contributed to my current state of exhaustion. I could only keep it up for a few weeks, before feeling exhausted. That might have been what pushed me over the edge.

So I do believe it's a combination of mental stress leading to physical exhaustion, lack of enough calories/right nutrients, topped off by doing high intensity exercise that maybe pushed me over the edge. Now I'm just trying to figure out the best protocol to get back to normal...

 

[wealthofwisdom]

So I had to get my temps because I went to a place that required it (due to Covid). From what I can tell, it seems like they are pretty good:

Underarm: 98.2
Forehead: 97.8

I also did my resting pulse rate, and it was 60 bpm...I know that's a bit low. I've always had low blood pressure my entire life. However the temps seem good...

I'm wondering what is causing my intermittent extreme exhaustion and hair shedding when so many other things seem good. I don't seem to have all of the typical symptoms of low thyroid / adrenal fatigue / hormone imbalance, just a few...