Donald Trump

[DaveFoster]

He's got a lot to learn

I watched the first part. I recognized the same rudimentary arguments from both men, akin to a dichotomy of ice cream versus cake. Once again, I withdraw from this thread.

I will say that one of the gentlemen had acne and misaligned teeth, so maybe there's an ad-hominem argument for order and structure in there somewhere.

 

[thomas00]

I see that can be taken as a negative. But OTOH it would be more difficult to rush through the process of appointments and end up getting more unqualified people. And you have to give Trump some leeway, as he isn't just going to pick someone just because he has experience, no matter how poor the track record. One appointee, a treasury secretary (Tim Geithner), under Obama, was a failure overseeing the New York Fed, and it amazes me no end how being a spectacular failure gets you a promotion as a treasury secretary. Oh well, that was the way politics was done. Toe the line. Sacrifice your principles. Be a yes man. This kind of appointment system no doubt is a major cause that got the country into a disintegrating spiral.

You've given examples already of poor choices in nominees for the cabinet. And you're complaining the process needs to be speeded up no matter what?

No I'm not arguing the process needs to be sped up, because the issue of confirmation processes isn't what was being debated, it was whether or not he had demonstrated incompetence.

My argument was that he had demonstrated incompetence by failing to nominate a majority of positions which needed to be filled, when his predecessors had achieved that within a shorter time frame.

The designation dates back to the 40's, and it is to an organization that Gorka's father belonged to. Gorka denies he belongs to that organization, and he wore the medal out of respect for his father. Such symbolism counts a lot for a son who truly respects the heroism of his father, and the media would twist it for its own narrative. Wearing a medal would forever taint a person, if the media were to be the judge of it.

Supposing the explanation that his father was never a member of this order and was awarded it on the basis of fighting communists in the late 70's is true- and I don't know if it is or not, but there are two issues I find pretty curious. The first is that his father, so it seems, had no problem accepting something from a group that was historically sympathetic to nazis. The second is that Gorka doesn't find the ring's affiliation with Nazism to be sufficiently off-putting that he wouldn't want to wear it, regardless of whether or not it does actually remind him of apparently noble activities against communists this his father was engaged in. That says a lot about him.

Imagine if your father rescued a family from a burning house and saved their lives and the local KKK chapter awarded him a ring to wear in honour of his actions. Would you wear it? None of us would.

It's only arbitrary because you don't agree with it. If Trump is just being ahead of the curve in keeping the US safe from radical Islam and its preaching of heavenly rewards for bombing innocent civilian infidels. Actually, he is way behind already. Remember 911? Too distant in the past? How about the recurring Islamic violence in happy and arms wide in welcome Europe?

It's arbitrary because it was never necessary and was counter productive. Muslims coming from various countries were already being scrutinised and it made the prospect of an increased threat through the alienation of moderate muslims inside the US more likely.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I watched the first part. I recognized the same rudimentary arguments from both men, akin to a dichotomy of ice cream versus cake. Once again, I withdraw from this thread.

I will say that one of the gentlemen had acne and misaligned teeth, so maybe there's an ad-hominem argument for order and structure in there somewhere.

 

[thomas00]

The only thing funny I see is someone trying to argue a Marxist philosophy without even realizing its Marxist roots. Your belief that a parasitic class is sucking up all of the wealth and that workers should be paid according to something other than their free market value is the basis of the Marxist fantasy.

Anarchism predates Marxism by quite a bit.

You should get out of your fox news bubble sometimes. You'd discover that there is more to the world than two different economic ideologies.

As for the US economy not becoming more and more Communist you could start by reading the Communist Manifesto and see how many of its 10 planks the US has already adopted.
Checklist: America meets 90% of Karl Marx’s demands

Yeah, all those private roads, private transport companies, private businesses, private hospitals, private schools, privileged ruling class and enormous wealth gap that Marx demanded.

It's *just* like what he envisaged....only the exact opposite.

As I originally thought, there is no amount of evidence

translation: I don't have any evidence so I'll just claim everyone else is too brainwashed to understand it.

I have given you at least ten fully referenced historical works by some of the world’s most respected historians as well as eye witness testimony

The first bit is a lie, your primary source just turned out to be a book of some guy asserting all sorts of wild stuff without referencing anything against his claims. The second bit is another appeal to authority. I don't care how respected anyone thinks they are.

The only logical fallacy here is your clear misunderstanding of what these terms actually meanPresenting the credentials of a source to buttress their claim is not a fallacy. It is a logical means used to evaluate the credibility of expert witness testimony. It’s only a fallacy if the expert doesn’t have the expertise in the relevant topic area.

That's one definition. Read various philosophical texts and you'll get an array of others.

I tend towards the definition that says invoking credentials to bolster an argument in any circumstance constitutes it's use. bull**** doesn't become less so because it's coming out of a degree-qualified mouth.

 

[x-ray peat]

Anarchism predates Marxism by quite a bit.
You should get out of your fox news bubble sometimes. You'd discover that there is more to the world than two different economic ideologies.

Well there you have it, a Marxist who thinks he is an Anarchist but doesn’t really understand either one too well. The rest of your little screed was just more repetitions that I had already addressed. FYI the first proponent of Anarchism, Proudhon, was a contemporary of Marx. Both were equally full of it.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Well there you have it, a Marxist who thinks he is an Anarchist but doesn’t really understand either one too well. The rest of your little screed was just more repetitions that I had already addressed. FYI the first proponent of Anarchism, Proudhon, was a contemporary of Marx. Both were equally full of it.

I like how you named yourself "peat" lol

 

[x-ray peat]

I like how you named yourself "peat" lol

thanks..truth be told, I took it from a band named the X-Ray Davies who hijacked the name of the lead singer of the Kinks.

 

[Such_Saturation]

thanks..truth be told, I took it from a band named the X-Ray Davies who hijacked the name of the lead singer of the Kinks.

Did they also hijack the singer's political views

 

[x-ray peat]

were you implying that Ray is a Marxist or an Anarchist?

 

[Such_Saturation]

were you implying that Ray is a Marxist or an Anarchist?

He wouldn't fit exactly but he would be close to the latter if we had to define him.

 

[x-ray peat]

He wouldn't fit exactly but he would be close to the latter if we had to define him.

ahh now I see your initial point. I would disagree with that characterization of Ray though. Its been discussed many times before how everyone projects their own political views on him. I don't think he believes in any ideology

 

[Such_Saturation]

ahh now I see your initial point. I would disagree with that characterization of Ray though. However its been discussed many times before how everyone projects their own political views on him. I don't think he believes in any ideology

Yeah but criticizing the idea that there are no classes, asking for 1% of income as payment for consultations, giving stuff away for free, creating a university run by students and getting in trouble with the CIA, you can't sweep these parts of him under the rug. They radiate even through his dietary ideas. "Not having an ideology" unfortunately places him strongly on the compass in today's world, because the compass is dumb, but he's on it nonetheless.

 

[x-ray peat]

Yeah but criticizing the idea that there are no classes, asking for 1% of income as payment for consultations, giving stuff away for free, creating a university run by students and getting in trouble with the CIA, you can't sweep these parts of him under the rug. They radiate even through his dietary ideas. "Not having an ideology" unfortunately places him strongly on the compass in today's world, because the compass is dumb, but he's on it nonetheless.

I think he is on a different compass. The current compass is dumb because it restricts the world to certain ideologies which are by definition a false description of the way the world works or could work. He has mentioned several times that the elite manipulate the culture for their own benefit. So why should it surprise us that these "alternative" ideologies that are promoted are also designed for their benefit. I think anarchism is just one more bs ideology designed to keep people sidelined from the real political discussion and made ineffectual with false beliefs.

 

[thomas00]

Well there you have it, a Marxist who thinks he is an Anarchist but doesn’t really understand either one too well. The rest of your little screed was just more repetitions that I had already addressed. FYI the first proponent of Anarchism, Proudhon, was a contemporary of Marx. Both were equally full of it.

Anarchism goes back further than Proudhon.

So, what makes my positions Marxist, rather than Anarchist?

It should be interesting to see what clarifications a person who believes the US is already 90% communist, can provide.

 

[x-ray peat]

Anarchism goes back further than Proudhon.
So, what makes my positions Marxist, rather than Anarchist?
It should be interesting to see what clarifications a person who believes the US is already 90% communist, can provide.

Now I can see why you keep falling for these ridiculous ideas; you are not a very careful reader. The article I linked to says that the United States has already adopted 9 of the 10 planks in the Communist Manifesto not that the US is 90% Communist. I’ll let you figure out the difference.

There is much overlap between the Utopian fantasies of the Anarchists and those of the Marxists but from what little you have written on your particular Utopia, you seem to owe more to the Marxists than the Anarchists. For example, your belief in a “parasitic class” that is sucking up all of the wealth is straight out of Das Kapital and a key part of Marxism. The Communists in the Soviet Union would send people to the Gulags under the charges of Social Parasitism.

Also your insistence that workers should be paid according to the risk they take or any other arbitrary measure rather than their free market value is also Marxist. That is a top down belief that would have to be imposed upon people whether they like it or not. Anarchism for the most part is bottom up, based upon self-governance and free association. Trying to impose your favored method of determining wages upon the people is the antithesis of Anarchism.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

I study Geopolitics in my free time and am sharing what I have learned

1) Trumps/USA agenda is to Overthrow Assad regime since they are not playing ball with Saudi/Qatar/Israel Pipeline. There are Hundred of billions of Barrels off the gulf of Qatar. They are attempting to build a pipeline to Europe to fuel it for the next 80 years or so.

2) Now Russia supply majority of Europeans Oil and uses this as its grip of Europe and accounts for 70% of the Russian Economy. Assad is backed by Russia because if Qatar pipeline is let through, then Russia will collapse and will be bought up. America Empire will likely dominate the world then.

3) Funny thing is Assad is fighting ISIS, yet we want to get rid of Assad.

4) An Israel company based out of New Wark NJ, Called Genie Energy was just given exclusive rights by the trump regeime to Drill for Oil in SYRIAN. An area called Golan Heights. It's a breach of international Law.

GET THIS.

Former US VP **** CHENEY+Lord JACOB ROTHSCHILD(banking dynasty and majority share older of the federal reserve+ FORMER CIA DIRECTOR all sit on the board of the company GENIE ENERGY.

It's all about oil

 

[x-ray peat]

I study Geopolitics in my free time and am sharing what I have learned
1) Trumps/USA agenda is to Overthrow Assad regime since they are not playing ball with Saudi/Qatar/Israel Pipeline. There are Hundred of billions of Barrels off the gulf of Qatar. They are attempting to build a pipeline to Europe to fuel it for the next 80 years or so.
2) Now Russia supply majority of Europeans Oil and uses this as its grip of Europe and accounts for 70% of the Russian Economy. Assad is backed by Russia because if Qatar pipeline is let through, then Russia will collapse and will be bought up. America Empire will likely dominate the world then.
3) Funny thing is Assad is fighting ISIS, yet we want to get rid of Assad.
4) An Israel company based out of New Wark NJ, Called Genie Energy was just given exclusive rights by the trump regeime to Drill for Oil in SYRIAN. An area called Golan Heights. It's a breach of international Law.
GET THIS.
Former US VP **** CHENEY+Lord JACOB ROTHSCHILD(banking dynasty and majority share older of the federal reserve+ FORMER CIA DIRECTOR all sit on the board of the company GENIE ENERGY.
It's all about oil

There is an old saying in politics. There are two reasons for everything, what is told to the public and the truth. Today there are multiple reasons for everything spread about the Internet which serve to keep us stumbling in the dark while the truth is hidden amongst the noise of lies. I was curious about your theory so I looked into it as I could see on its face it has a lot of holes. Whether or not the war has to do with the long ago proposed Qatari-Turkey Pipeline or a Saudi Pipeline is unknown but the fact that your sources are holding Israel to blame is a tell tale sign of disinformation and scapegoating of Israel.

Here are a few problems I found:
1) The proposed pipeline would not even come close to Israel, passing far north of the Golan Heights, so Israel would not gain anything by it. Furthermore Israel recently announced the development of their own undersea gas pipeline that would connect it directly to Greece and possibly Italy.

2) The Golan Heights was captured in the Six Day war over 40 years ago. The Golan had been used by Syria to drop bombs on the Israeli valley below and would never be given back because of its defensive value. In 1981 Israel officially annexed the Golan. Israel does not need US intervention in Syria to maintain control of the Golan. They have had a peaceful coexistence with Syria for a long time. Having a radical Islamic terrorist state in the place of Assad isn’t such a clear cut improvement to the status quo.

3) Genie Energie is an American company with an Israeli subsidiary that was given the rights to explore for gas in the Golan by Israel several years ago. Trump didn’t give any company exclusive rights to drill in the Golan because he couldn’t. It’s Israeli territory.

4) Finally the infamous Lord Rothschild does not own the majority of the Federal Reserve nor is he the ruler of the Illuminati or some made up Elders of Zion. Do you have any evidence that he does control the Fed besides the rantings of Internet disnfo agents. The power of the Rothschild’s peaked over a 150 years ago but they were always subservient to the European Nobility and the Vatican. A single family doesn’t emerge from the Jewish Ghettos of Germany to take over the world in a few generations. They would have been crushed by the Monarchies if they were a real threat to their power. The Rothchilds were sock puppets and provided cover for the deeds of the real ruling elite serving as their scapegoats. Moreover, the Rothschilds had lost much of their wealth in the Holocaust and are nowhere near the same class as the Rockefellers or the European Nobility or the Vatican. There is a video of Lord Rothschild walking to his car alone on the streets of NY being accosted by We Are Change. If he was the true ruler of the World he would not be alone without bodyguards and assistants for one second.

I am not saying its not about Saudi or Qatari pipelines but not everything that goes bump in the night is about Israel or the Rothschilds.

 

[yerrag]

No I'm not arguing the process needs to be sped up, because the issue of confirmation processes isn't what was being debated, it was whether or not he had demonstrated incompetence.

My argument was that he had demonstrated incompetence by failing to nominate a majority of positions which needed to be filled, when his predecessors had achieved that within a shorter time frame.

If Trump were draining the swamp, wouldn't be more inclined to be more thorough in appointing people to positions? Would he still want to benchmark against past presidents who didn't even want to drain the swamp? If he were to appoint people on the terms of past presidencies, what kind of change would he be able to accomplish? It sounds like he is thinking and strategizing rather than letting narratives from media dictate his actions so as to look "competent." Image consultants, find another job!

Supposing the explanation that his father was never a member of this order and was awarded it on the basis of fighting communists in the late 70's is true- and I don't know if it is or not, but there are two issues I find pretty curious. The first is that his father, so it seems, had no problem accepting something from a group that was historically sympathetic to nazis. The second is that Gorka doesn't find the ring's affiliation with Nazism to be sufficiently off-putting that he wouldn't want to wear it, regardless of whether or not it does actually remind him of apparently noble activities against communists this his father was engaged in. That says a lot about him.

Imagine if your father rescued a family from a burning house and saved their lives and the local KKK chapter awarded him a ring to wear in honour of his actions. Would you wear it? None of us would.

Mischaracterizing Gorka's action of respect to his father, by wearing a medal and turning it into a vile action and tainting it with Nazism is pretty ingenuous and petty. Defining a person by one minor symbolic act - is that all they could find against him? I find him clean, because I give him the benefit of the doubt and don't want to be a judgmental prick. Perhaps you should be appointed by Trump and let's see how you are pilloried by the press. Then maybe you can understand the swamp pit media has become.

It's arbitrary because it was never necessary and was counter productive. Muslims coming from various countries were already being scrutinised and it made the prospect of an increased threat through the alienation of moderate muslims inside the US more likely.

Hindsight is 20/20, as they say. Trump is crazy until proven right. Of course, if he prevents what's happening now in Europe and nothing happens because of his not allowing events to run out of control, you could always say you are right (just because the threat was never allowed to blossom and materialize).

People don't appreciate prevention because they don't see what could have happened. People rather prefer to deny the existence of a looming crisis, and pompously state they would cross the bridge when they get there, and prefer a hero to rescue them at the last moment. The hero will also appropriate a billion dollars to fix what would have only cost a million to prevent. That is characteristic of the stupidity in the way the US was managed. And it wasted a lot of opportunities. And that is an understatement.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

 

[Queequeg]

Seems like the Donald gets his hands slapped an awful lot