Dog Health

[alywest]

He does not sound hyperthyroid. He sounds stressed. You have plenty of time to train him. But socializing is important. You might try some pregnenolone. I bought some from HealthNatura because it is easy powder to dose a dog. I put a little on the end of a butter knife and wipe it on my dog's tongue. My picky dog seeks it out like a treat.
It is absolutely stressful to be re-homed. Remember, we bring another species into OUR world. You bet that is an existential crisis.
And, this guy did not get a lot of early thoughtful attention.
I would focus on bonding, trust, constancy and consistency at this point. Suzanne Clothier says to ask the dog, "How is this for you?" Her articles are amazing and her presence in seminar leaves you high. She works magic on animals. But then, you go home. And if you have a difficult dog, like my Phineas, you can lose hope. For most pet dogs, Suzanne's work (or Ian Dunbar's) work is perfect.
I've owned and trained many many dogs (and horses) but Phineas forced me to dig much deeper.
Most rescue dogs I have worked with blossom with bonding, trust and constancy. Mom is reliable. The dog feels "Mom's got this."
But Phineas required very clear communication. He HATES ambivalance. He HATES wishy washy. He's intensely anxious fear aggressive dog (only a mother could love. lol) control freak german shepherd/border collie with a bad upbringing. This is NOT a dog you can lie to. I competed agilty and flyball with him but he was still a raging reactive aggressive dog. I was stumped and defeated. It was not until I went to Jennifer Boznos, who understood Phineas the second she met him. He was raging at the end of his leash barking and roaring at her. I was so embarrassed. I said sorry and she said, "Oh, this. You mean the barking? This is nothing at all." She grabbed him and worked him privately for about 5 minutes and said "he should compete in Competition Obedience at the national level. Great dog."
Anyway, I learned her method and brought many dogs through her program and out to her farm to herd sheep or attend her intensive camps.
Depending on your needs. Downtown Chicago dogs need to be able to walk on a leash past other dogs, screaming kids on scooters, wheelchairs, people who hate dogs. They have to poo n pee while on leash in blizzards. They can only be offleash in dog parks with lots of strange dogs. You have to be able to call them off scuffles and play with their favorite buddies. The dog has to know what you want and needs to learn the rules of living in our weird human city world.
Typical rescue dog might look like this one. This clip doesn't look like much but there's incredible technique and adherence to knowing what works, how she is shaping his behavior, how she is ignoring "bad" behavior whilst being a stickler on other things. Phineas needed methodology.
With all dogs now, I use a combo of Jennifer Boznos method and Suzanne Clothier bonding. Food is just used early on in teaching vocabulary. Once you have the bond, you just need to be consistent in your relationship. I learned that all dogs LOVE clarity.
In cities it is important to learn that "socializing" doesn't mean "friendly". Jennifer is good at showing a dog that strange people are just part of the environment and MOM is the better choice.
Once the puppy establishes this habit, you don't need food. These are calmer dogs who are comfortable knowing that MOM facilitates my safety and pleasure. These dogs are fine offleash. I can walk offleash along the vast parks on the lake in Chicago even with crazy Phineas. He's fine. I know I can call him off anything. He's allowed to have his exploratory time and I can say, "Let's go" and he is like a missile returning to me. He has a command to go chase the geese and a command to missile back to me. His "leave it" is rock solid.
I am over the people that say dogs are just wolves, blah blah blah.
That's all good and nice and makes for earthy reading but most people need practical advice.
I want to give my dog as much freedom and pleasure as I can in Chicago city. I don't have to go to dog parks. I unhook the leash the second I am off the sidewalk and I know he won't do anything that will get the cops on me. Chicago has discarded hypodermic needles and human feces all over the parks. You'd better have a rock solid "leave it!"
Anyway. Your not dog is NOT hyperthyroid.
Oh, here's another adorable clip of Jennifer working a puppy. This work is relevant for city dog owners. This behavior is far more preferable to Phineas' previous roaring up a biting the strange person's face.

Thank you so much for your thoughtful and extremely informative post. I admire you for taking on such a challenge in a big city like Chicago, that must have been daunting, but sounds like it was worth it to learn what you did. I believe that particular dogs come into our lives for a reason, probably to teach us the specific lessons we need to learn at the time. I know that sounds hokey, but I'm a hokey person I guess. This dog was seemingly meant to be for us. He was already in the process of being adopted when we found him online, and the other potential owner dropped out at the last second. So this dog isn't a typical rescue in that he was sitting in a kennel somewhere with major battle scars, like your Phineas was.

Fortunately, Jack has already calmed down quite a bit so you are definitely correct in saying it isn't hyperthyroidism! I think my obsession with the thyroid was getting away with me! However, today he is being a lot more calm in general already. He's not aggressive at all, just very high energy. He is half Belgian Malinois and apparently they are a breed that needs a LOT of exercise. My main concern at this point is that at night he's been a total spazz, as in waking up and grunting/barking anytime there is even a soft sound in the house (we have two cats who like to play all night so this is an issue!) It's something he's probably going to get better about as he learns all the different sounds of our home and it will hopefully get better over time just through experience. However, I am excited to check out Ms. Boznos and Clothier because this dog is clearly not socialized. I know for a fact that he spent all the time his owner was at work in a "crate" aka cage.

We are lucky in that he's a sweet guy and not aggressive, but he's rough around the edges, and with two young kids and the above-mentioned cats this needs to be worked on. I'm glad Jack is young still and isn't too set in his ways, because I'm not sure I would have the time or patience to deal with it right now. We also have a ten year old dog who is extremely cool, although he does do some annoying things to this day, like jumping on people who come to our house and barking like crazy if someone knocks even if I tell him it's ok. There is definitely a lot of anxiety that pops us with him, too, so I think these unique perspectives on dog-rearing are just what I need. I've clearly failed with my older dog in many ways, although for the most part he's a pretty happy and easy-going guy.

Thanks again for taking the time to write such a wonderful response to my plea for help! You are clearly a true friend of animals!

 

[Regina]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful and extremely informative post. I admire you for taking on such a challenge in a big city like Chicago, that must have been daunting, but sounds like it was worth it to learn what you did. I believe that particular dogs come into our lives for a reason, probably to teach us the specific lessons we need to learn at the time. I know that sounds hokey, but I'm a hokey person I guess. This dog was seemingly meant to be for us. He was already in the process of being adopted when we found him online, and the other potential owner dropped out at the last second. So this dog isn't a typical rescue in that he was sitting in a kennel somewhere with major battle scars, like your Phineas was.

Fortunately, Jack has already calmed down quite a bit so you are definitely correct in saying it isn't hyperthyroidism! I think my obsession with the thyroid was getting away with me! However, today he is being a lot more calm in general already. He's not aggressive at all, just very high energy. He is half Belgian Malinois and apparently they are a breed that needs a LOT of exercise. My main concern at this point is that at night he's been a total spazz, as in waking up and grunting/barking anytime there is even a soft sound in the house (we have two cats who like to play all night so this is an issue!) It's something he's probably going to get better about as he learns all the different sounds of our home and it will hopefully get better over time just through experience. However, I am excited to check out Ms. Boznos and Clothier because this dog is clearly not socialized. I know for a fact that he spent all the time his owner was at work in a "crate" aka cage.

We are lucky in that he's a sweet guy and not aggressive, but he's rough around the edges, and with two young kids and the above-mentioned cats this needs to be worked on. I'm glad Jack is young still and isn't too set in his ways, because I'm not sure I would have the time or patience to deal with it right now. We also have a ten year old dog who is extremely cool, although he does do some annoying things to this day, like jumping on people who come to our house and barking like crazy if someone knocks even if I tell him it's ok. There is definitely a lot of anxiety that pops us with him, too, so I think these unique perspectives on dog-rearing are just what I need. I've clearly failed with my older dog in many ways, although for the most part he's a pretty happy and easy-going guy.

Thanks again for taking the time to write such a wonderful response to my plea for help! You are clearly a true friend of animals!

Oh Jack sounds fantastic! I confess that Malinois' have become my favorite dog breed. If you've got a high energy one who is also not too much of an alligator, then you've hit the jackpot.
Yes, the trainers methodology to focus on with this dog are:
Ivan Balabanov
Jennifer Boznos (who uses the Third Way method as created by Chris Bach)
Michael Ellis
or my friend, Emily Stoddard. She's a young lion in the dog training world. She's got 4 Mals now - all rescues -- as well as all her other dogs and school. She cut her teeth as a trick trainer and agility champ.
All of these motivational trainers work off the existing energy of the dog. They never squelched the dog's energy.
May I ask where you are? You may be able to attend a weekend workshop with one of these pros or someone with similar skill level. Mals are a piece of cake to train. They love love love school. They are the dorks of the canine world. I swear, they even try to get an "A" when they are sleeping. The global Mal community is awesome. I would call Emily if you get into trouble.

 

[Blossom]

Wow @Regina all this information on dogs is truly amazing. Thank you so much.

 

[Blossom]

sorry about that, by the way. So sad...)

Thanks, it happens. It's always heart wrenching but I'm grateful to have had the years we had together and glad she had a good home and life with us. It's remarkable how they eventually turn around. I only rescue and don't really know what I'm doing -I just love them and go for it.

 

[alywest]

Oh Jack sounds fantastic! I confess that Malinois' have become my favorite dog breed. If you've got a high energy one who is also not too much of an alligator, then you've hit the jackpot.
Yes, the trainers methodology to focus on with this dog are:
Ivan Balabanov
Jennifer Boznos (who uses the Third Way method as created by Chris Bach)
Michael Ellis
or my friend, Emily Stoddard. She's a young lion in the dog training world. She's got 4 Mals now - all rescues -- as well as all her other dogs and school. She cut her teeth as a trick trainer and agility champ.
All of these motivational trainers work off the existing energy of the dog. They never squelched the dog's energy.
May I ask where you are? You may be able to attend a weekend workshop with one of these pros or someone with similar skill level. Mals are a piece of cake to train. They love love love school. They are the dorks of the canine world. I swear, they even try to get an "A" when they are sleeping. The global Mal community is awesome. I would call Emily if you get into trouble.

I am in the Phoenix area, any I would love to attend a workshop. That would be awesome so here's hoping! He is a sweet guy and is a little bit mouthy but not snappy. Thank you thank you thank you for your insight and encouragement, it really makes me feel like I made the right choice!

 

[Regina]

I am in the Phoenix area, any I would love to attend a workshop. That would be awesome so here's hoping! He is a sweet guy and is a little bit mouthy but not snappy. Thank you thank you thank you for your insight and encouragement, it really makes me feel like I made the right choice!

If Jack hasn't killed the two cats, bit the kids (requiring trip to ER) or sent your other dog to the vet then you have a real catch. Malinois are supposed to be mouthy. Just play tug with him. Use his drives to train/shape the behaviors you want. Let me poke around to see if I know of anyone in Phoenix. These guys in Tuscon are good: Sublime * Canine - Tucson Dog Training - Pet Dog Classes - Rattlesnake Avoidance - Dog Training
You could call them to see if anyone is closer. But generally, you want a Sports Dog club or trainer. Avoid people who just train manners and obedience.

That reminds me that Jennifer's lead trainer used to be a dolphin trainer at the Shedd Aquarium. You can't scold a dolphin; they'll just swim away. A Malinois will "obey" but without any sparkle if he thinks his handler is an oppressive turd.

Malinois want nothing more than to be engaged with and they have been bred to grip. This should not be suppressed. You put it on cue. Watch how pros play tug:
Michael Ellis plays tug
Ivan plays tug
The "obedience" just follows; i.e., the dog understands your requests, your vocabularly and hand signals. Once you have something like a tug toy or ball on a rope, a malinois will do whatever you want to figure out how to get it. They usually start offering things to figure how to get you to engage. They rattle through of a rolodex: should I sit? should I bark at her? should I jump on her? should I lay down? They really don't know at first. But they are lightning-fast learners. When they see what works, they will offer that behavior. Then you can build and build on layers of criteria.
And they way better have a few minutes engagement with you/family than an hour goofing off.
see How Michael Ellis uses a dog park.

 

[alywest]

If Jack hasn't killed the two cats, bit the kids (requiring trip to ER) or sent your other dog to the vet then you have a real catch. Malinois are supposed to be mouthy. Just play tug with him. Use his drives to train/shape the behaviors you want. Let me poke around to see if I know of anyone in Phoenix. These guys in Tuscon are good: Sublime * Canine - Tucson Dog Training - Pet Dog Classes - Rattlesnake Avoidance - Dog Training
You could call them to see if anyone is closer. But generally, you want a Sports Dog club or trainer. Avoid people who just train manners and obedience.

That reminds me that Jennifer's lead trainer used to be a dolphin trainer at the Shedd Aquarium. You can't scold a dolphin; they'll just swim away. A Malinois will "obey" but without any sparkle if he thinks his handler is an oppressive turd.

Malinois want nothing more than to be engaged with and they have been bred to grip. This should not be suppressed. You put it on cue. Watch how pros play tug:
Michael Ellis plays tug
Ivan plays tug
The "obedience" just follows; i.e., the dog understands your requests, your vocabularly and hand signals. Once you have something like a tug toy or ball on a rope, a malinois will do whatever you want to figure out how to get it. They usually start offering things to figure how to get you to engage. They rattle through of a rolodex: should I sit? should I bark at her? should I jump on her? should I lay down? They really don't know at first. But they are lightning-fast learners. When they see what works, they will offer that behavior. Then you can build and build on layers of criteria.
And they way better have a few minutes engagement with you/family than an hour goofing off.
see How Michael Ellis uses a dog park.

Wow, this is all so incredibly helpful. I really don't know how to thank you enough! Yes, he is a catch apparently because he has only been lightly mouthing me, never tried biting the cats and nipped at my son, who was pretty much asking for it, so definitely not aggressive in the slightest. I'm actually excited about the potential of this dog now! At first I was overwhelmed by the energy but it has already been good in that I've been exercising more and taking him to dog park. But it will be great to know how to maximize the potential of the playtime instead of just hoping there are fun dogs around. I sensed he'd love to do tug games but I am apparently worthless at it so the videos of playing tug by pros is beyond awesome!!! I would be willing to drive to Tucson in order to get some good training sessions, especially for the rattlesnake issue. I need to actually do that with both of my dogs as we just moved here from the NW so it wasn't an issue up there.

 

[Regina]

Wow, this is all so incredibly helpful. I really don't know how to thank you enough! Yes, he is a catch apparently because he has only been lightly mouthing me, never tried biting the cats and nipped at my son, who was pretty much asking for it, so definitely not aggressive in the slightest. I'm actually excited about the potential of this dog now! At first I was overwhelmed by the energy but it has already been good in that I've been exercising more and taking him to dog park. But it will be great to know how to maximize the potential of the playtime instead of just hoping there are fun dogs around. I sensed he'd love to do tug games but I am apparently worthless at it so the videos of playing tug by pros is beyond awesome!!! I would be willing to drive to Tucson in order to get some good training sessions, especially for the rattlesnake issue. I need to actually do that with both of my dogs as we just moved here from the NW so it wasn't an issue up there.

Don't be discouraged if your tug sessions don't look like Michael's above. Here is what it looks like with a younger dog. I think 6 month. Notice, she's not suppressing the dog's own drives and uses food at this point in their relationship. She's keeping it upbeat and expectations are very loose.
5 minutes of engagement play with a high-drive dog (Jake maybe moderate-drive) is way more rewarding to the dog and thus, making him easy to live with. Take him in the car with you and to Home Depot. Give a command to wait while you talk to friends and store help. Give him commands on how to get in and out of the car. That's the kind of stuff that will make him sleep content through the night. Dog Park is not nearly as rewarding. You'll be amazed how much more criteria you can layer on.
It will be important for your dogs to learn the "Place" command.
It starts boring. But becomes very valuable in a multi-dog home. For so many reasons. Someone's at the door, send the dog to "place". You are at the park with Jake and you have to go to the bathroom or you want to play a game with friends or your kids. So you lay your jacket on the grass next to your car keys, purse, etc, you point to your jacket and say"Place" to Jake. He goes over and stays on it until you release him. Do you think anyone is stealing your purse? No way. This is much safer than tying him out.

While it does not seem like red flag yet with nipping at the kids, you want to establish rules of engagement for both kids and dog. You don't want either to have a bad experience that will have lasting damage on their relationships. Mals are mouthy. GSD's like to walk you around by the hand. The use their mouths like we use our hands. So, you will have commands like "Place" when you want to engage w the kids w/o dogs. You really need a couple of sessions with a trainer showing the "Off", "Leave it", "Place" or "Kennel In" (if you use a crate) commands. You can start to show Jake what's too hard. If he gets mouthy during play, sing "Ow!" and then stop engaging. Start to teach him what "Gentle" means. He's not stupid. He will love those kids with all his heart.

 

[alywest]

Don't be discouraged if your tug sessions don't look like Michael's above. Here is what it looks like with a younger dog. I think 6 month. Notice, she's not suppressing the dog's own drives and uses food at this point in their relationship. She's keeping it upbeat and expectations are very loose.
5 minutes of engagement play with a high-drive dog (Jake maybe moderate-drive) is way more rewarding to the dog and thus, making him easy to live with. Take him in the car with you and to Home Depot. Give a command to wait while you talk to friends and store help. Give him commands on how to get in and out of the car. That's the kind of stuff that will make him sleep content through the night. Dog Park is not nearly as rewarding. You'll be amazed how much more criteria you can layer on.
It will be important for your dogs to learn the "Place" command.
It starts boring. But becomes very valuable in a multi-dog home. For so many reasons. Someone's at the door, send the dog to "place". You are at the park with Jake and you have to go to the bathroom or you want to play a game with friends or your kids. So you lay your jacket on the grass next to your car keys, purse, etc, you point to your jacket and say"Place" to Jake. He goes over and stays on it until you release him. Do you think anyone is stealing your purse? No way. This is much safer than tying him out.

While it does not seem like red flag yet with nipping at the kids, you want to establish rules of engagement for both kids and dog. You don't want either to have a bad experience that will have lasting damage on their relationships. Mals are mouthy. GSD's like to walk you around by the hand. The use their mouths like we use our hands. So, you will have commands like "Place" when you want to engage w the kids w/o dogs. You really need a couple of sessions with a trainer showing the "Off", "Leave it", "Place" or "Kennel In" (if you use a crate) commands. You can start to show Jake what's too hard. If he gets mouthy during play, sing "Ow!" and then stop engaging. Start to teach him what "Gentle" means. He's not stupid. He will love those kids with all his heart.

Awww, thank you so much. The one place where he is really anxious right now is the car, so I actually put his crate in the car for the time being, because otherwise he was jumping all over the place while I'm driving, including my kids' laps while they're in their car seats! Even when we're heading to the car he gets really anxious, but wants to go in, like it's maybe the only time he used to get any activity in the past or something. I would love it if I could use time in the car as a way to give him stimulation, as well as doing daily activities. Plus if he was so well-behaved that he would sit in a "place" and not freak out would be amazing! My older dog is not good about that and when we are having people or playing with the kids he likes to get right in the middle of things and while it's cute, it can be a distraction.

My older son has special needs so it was important to me that whatever dog we got doesn't get mad if his tail is grabbed or something, but we are definitely working with my son on that through aba therapy. Fortunately my son is pretty good a gauging how much a dog will tolerate, and he mainly picks on my older doggie, but even he will put my son in his place if he goes too far by snapping at him. He puts up with a lot, though, including my son just randomly sitting on him like a horse when he's laying on the floor. Our dog that recently passed away wouldn't put up with any of that and my son totally left him alone. So he's definitely understanding the different dog's limits but it's something we are working on for sure. He's not quite five years old so he's a young one and has a ways to go himself. As you can see I have my hands full!

 

[Regina]

Awww, thank you so much. The one place where he is really anxious right now is the car, so I actually put his crate in the car for the time being, because otherwise he was jumping all over the place while I'm driving, including my kids' laps while they're in their car seats! Even when we're heading to the car he gets really anxious, but wants to go in, like it's maybe the only time he used to get any activity in the past or something. I would love it if I could use time in the car as a way to give him stimulation, as well as doing daily activities. Plus if he was so well-behaved that he would sit in a "place" and not freak out would be amazing! My older dog is not good about that and when we are having people or playing with the kids he likes to get right in the middle of things and while it's cute, it can be a distraction.

My older son has special needs so it was important to me that whatever dog we got doesn't get mad if his tail is grabbed or something, but we are definitely working with my son on that through aba therapy. Fortunately my son is pretty good a gauging how much a dog will tolerate, and he mainly picks on my older doggie, but even he will put my son in his place if he goes too far by snapping at him. He puts up with a lot, though, including my son just randomly sitting on him like a horse when he's laying on the floor. Our dog that recently passed away wouldn't put up with any of that and my son totally left him alone. So he's definitely understanding the different dog's limits but it's something we are working on for sure. He's not quite five years old so he's a young one and has a ways to go himself. As you can see I have my hands full!

Haha. I can totally picture everything. What a lovely family and home Jake scored with you guys.
So yeah, you can crate him in the car. That's totally fine. Mals are super hardy. You can see how it goes over time. Maybe his anxiety will lessen and you will be able to discern what is excitement and what is anxiety. Maybe he will earn more freedom.
This clip is good enough. (nothing special) You can see the dog hates to have his head hugged. But he tolerates it. The dog gets it. But you see the dog doesn't have huge respect for the kid--he sort of mugs the treat from the kid but straightens up for the adult. Kids like to grab and squeeze the head and stare directly into the dog's eyes while screeching something like, "AH MY DOG I LOVE DOGGY AHHHHH!!!". You can imagine a thin-skinned dog lashing out. And many dogs are weary of the awkward motor skills little kids have. Like I said, if Jake hasn't already bit your kids, we would consider him a "kid-friendly" dog. (at this point) Typically, Mals are very hardy. Once he has bonded with the kids, he's likely to tolerate anything. He's not going to "turn" on the kids. However, you may want to get a harness or collar that says, "DO NOT PET" on him for when you eat at sidewalk cafes and go about village shops with him. Because Malinois are protective of their family and are well-known for being alligators. So, while I don't think he will bite one of you, he should not be subjected to strangers bopping him on the head. And your kid's friends should not be hugging and squeezing his head. They should not bend over and stare directly into his eyes.
This looks like a good place:
https://www.azdogsports.com/
Maybe you could sign him up for a basic obedience class and bring the kids with you. Each one can take turns performing the tasks as per the instructor.

 

[Regina]

Cute clip. Here is Ivan with a protection trained dog that he was selling. He is demonstrating that the dog is perfectly fine and safe with completely strange kids he meets. As well as going to Lowe's on an extend-a-lead. These are highly intelligent animals. They don't just bite kids and people. They are not irrational. They discern.

 

[Regina]

Post about dog health here...

All different philosophies and views are welcome whether it’s related to food, training, etc.

Here you go. 2 hour interview with Ivan Balabanov
Guest Ivan Balabanov - Dog Training Conversations (podcast)

Have a listen at your leisure.

 

[alywest]

Here you go. 2 hour interview with Ivan Balabanov
Guest Ivan Balabanov - Dog Training Conversations (podcast)

Have a listen at your leisure.

YAY! I have a lot of homework to do, but fun homework! I honestly can't thank you enough. You are a gem!

 

[Regina]

YAY! I have a lot of homework to do, but fun homework! I honestly can't thank you enough. You are a gem!

This clip is pretty similar to the way I train the "PLACE" command. They are calling it "BED". But I want to be able to generalize this command as much as possible. It's a really useful thing to be able to communicate to your dog. After proofing (practicing) it on a cot, I might spread out a towel (and proof/practice that new surface). Then I might throw out my jacket and work on getting the dog to understood the same rules applies regardless of what is signifying "PLACE" . Then I take the lesson outside. It's good to be able to hide from your dog and see if he stays on the signified "PLACE" while he can't see you.
Once again, the treats help you shape the criteria, the verbal and hand signal for the behavior. You don't need to treat them once they have this mastered. It just becomes part of their learned repetoire and they are expected to do it.

Ah malinois. You are such dorks. 'Please please please. I want to get an "A"' seem to be their foremost concern.

 

[Regina]

In the "don't judge a man til you walk in his shoes" category, Sue Sternberg has taken a lot of heat from the dog world. She founded a shelter.
But insiders have great respect for her.
Are puppies blank slates?